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Optimization, Customization, Tweaking

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Ancient76

Ancient76

Senior user
#1
Jun 17, 2013
Optimization, Customization, Tweaking

Ok, i would like to see in the future more information about optimization and customization. For me The Witcher is storytelling, great quests, gameplay, atmosphere... I like good graphics, but i really don't want to spend small fortune to be able to play it. And W3 will be demanding game.

I hope that we will see something that i call "smart optimization/customization", where i can disable effects that really don't make such a big difference. I don't need crazy LODs especially in the distance, or 4096k shadow resolution, etc.

Also it would be good idea to enable as much as possible options for tweaking. I like to play with cfg. values, and this is the best way to find performance/quality spot.

Thanks.
 
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Geralt_of_bsas

Geralt_of_bsas

Forum veteran
#2
Jun 17, 2013
agree 100%
 
M

Marsep

Rookie
#3
Jun 17, 2013
I definitely agree with you on this. The most important thing of The Witcher saga is the story. This is the last part of the legend which started in The Witcher 1 and I want to import my save games for TW 3 without having to upgrade or even change the PC (already did that in order to play TW 2). But... not again, pls!

CD Projekt RED should consider all PC modest gamers who doesn't have a PC Gaming with high class graphics card and unlimited RAM.
TW 3 should have, at least, an option to "disable all shadows" (that would give the game a boost of 10 FPS or even more).
The only option in TW 2 that increases the FPS is to decrease the resolution. I understand that miracles cannot be done and I like the idea of making a true next-gen RPG... But please, optimize it so a larger range of people can enjoy it, even at the cost of some visuals. Develop the game at the best you can do, but also take note and consider options that allow us to disable those eye-candy effects to increase performance. I would preffer to play the game in a fluid way and low-graphics that on high-graphics and not that fluid.

I mean, don't cut or take away those cool effects. Just give options that allow us to turn them off, in case we cannot play TW 3 as we would because our PC isn't a monster. That's all.

I know it cannot be compared to Skyrim in any way... but that one allows every PC user to configure lots of things in order to make the game playable even on low-end PCs! Of course, the engine is very different and it isn't a demanding game at all, even if it is open-world.

I just hope CD Projekt RED will find some way to optimize TW 3.
TW 1 and 2 were too much demanding at the time they both were released... Don't repeat that mistake again!
 
Ancient76

Ancient76

Senior user
#4
Jun 17, 2013
TW 2 is the reason why i have decided to open this thread. I have played it on HD 5850 with pretty good fps, but the game is really badly optimized.

Now W3 will be different beast.

I understand that miracles cannot be done and I like the idea of making a true next-gen RPG...
Click to expand...
Trust me many games can be much better optimized. The best example is Skyrim where some guys have created mod that enables 20 frames more. Later Bethesda has included this fix in the patch.
 
Ancient76

Ancient76

Senior user
#5
Aug 21, 2014
Just to again remind CDPR about my proposition.

Make it more accessible for tweaking, like Stalker for example.
 
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HellKnightX88

HellKnightX88

Forum veteran
#6
Aug 21, 2014
ancient76 said:
Trust me many games can be much better optimized. The best example is Skyrim where some guys have created mod that enables 20 frames more. Later Bethesda has included this fix in the patch.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the off topic but could you give a bit more info on this? PM me if you need to.
 
V

volsung

Forum veteran
#7
Aug 21, 2014
I understand you guys expect games to "scale" relatively well on different hardware, and what you expect is games like TW3 to be playable with an affordable minimum system requirements. If I am not mistaken, TW2 actually ran decently with most eye candy off in the suggested platform (8800 GT, 2 GB RAM, etc.). Of course by decent I mean barely playable: ~30 FPS, "lower" resolution like 1366x768, etc. If you consider we're talking about hardware from 2007/2008 running a compute-intensive game from 2011 this is actually impressive.

"Optimization" is thrown around way too often. To optimize a computer program in terms of performance means achieving a satisfiable balance between results and response times. In other words, you want the game to show off as much as possible while being as responsive as possible. The Witcher 2 uses a very impressive graphical engine and I believe CDPR achieved a good compromise. As I said, it ran on three-year-old hardware at the time of release. If you say TW2 wasn't "optimized" you'd have to provide data showing either: 1) there is a way to improve game elements such as graphics while keeping the same acceptable performance and/or 2) you can improve performance while keeping the game elements (eg. graphics) intact. In computing terms, program scalability involves finding an equation relating input size and resources with respect to efficiency. For instance, if you can increase both your data and your resources by some unknown ratio (say, square the data and double the resources) and maintain your efficiency then your program is scalable. The thing here is we don't know enough of this about The Witcher 2 or any other game for that matter to simply say "it's unoptimized". You don't know if it could perform better simply because it doesn't run too well on your hardware.

I am confident CDPR will work as best as they can and I am sure moderate machines will be able to play TW3, but with most visual effects turned off. This is what happens with demanding games and we all know it. If you want to have a high-range gaming PC that will play all games fluidly, be prepared to upgrade every 4 or so years. Nobody said it was a cheap hobby.

I do agree that many games seem like they could perform better. They don't seem to use all available resources (but we don't know if they could use them efficiently) and sometimes they are not even impressive compared to their insane requirements. But I don't know what goes on inside and I can only assume maybe it could run faster. Someone pointed out some person made Skyrim run faster, and that is a good proof.
 
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Ancient76

Ancient76

Senior user
#8
Aug 22, 2014
HellKnightX88 said:
Sorry for the off topic but could you give a bit more info on this? PM me if you need to.
Click to expand...
The name of the mod/fix was TESV Acceleration Layer.
TESVAL is an in-memory code patch for TESV, aiming to fix a few of the worst CPU hogs.

Description:
This patch will improve your frame rate by up to 40% in all CPU-dependent situations, i.e. especially in cities.
It works mostly by rewriting some x87 FPU code and inlining a whole ton of useless getter functions along the critical paths because the developers at Bethesda, for some reason, compiled the game without using any of the optimization flags for release builds.

Today you don't need this cause it's already implemented. But thanks to other people, not Bethesda.
This fix has improved my performance by 20 frames in some cases! Of course this was nothing new to me because i have already knew that the game should perform much better.

But 20 frames!?
People spend small fortune buying faster cards just to increase their fps by 10 frames. Sometimes even less.



.Volsung. said:
I understand you guys expect games to "scale" relatively well on different hardware, and what you expect is games like TW3 to be playable with an affordable minimum system requirements. If I am not mistaken, TW2 actually ran decently with most eye candy off in the suggested platform (8800 GT, 2 GB RAM, etc.). Of course by decent I mean barely playable: ~30 FPS, "lower" resolution like 1366x768, etc. If you consider we're talking about hardware from 2007/2008 running a compute-intensive game from 2011 this is actually impressive.

"Optimization" is thrown around way too often. To optimize a computer program in terms of performance means achieving a satisfiable balance between results and response times. In other words, you want the game to show off as much as possible while being as responsive as possible. The Witcher 2 uses a very impressive graphical engine and I believe CDPR achieved a good compromise. As I said, it ran on three-year-old hardware at the time of release. If you say TW2 wasn't "optimized" you'd have to provide data showing either: 1) there is a way to improve game elements such as graphics while keeping the same acceptable performance and/or 2) you can improve performance while keeping the game elements (eg. graphics) intact. In computing terms, program scalability involves finding an equation relating input size and resources with respect to efficiency. For instance, if you can increase both your data and your resources by some unknown ratio (say, square the data and double the resources) and maintain your efficiency then your program is scalable. The thing here is we don't know enough of this about The Witcher 2 or any other game for that matter to simply say "it's unoptimized". You don't know if it could perform better simply because it doesn't run too well on your hardware.

I am confident CDPR will work as best as they can and I am sure moderate machines will be able to play TW3, but with most visual effects turned off. This is what happens with demanding games and we all know it. If you want to have a high-range gaming PC that will play all games fluidly, be prepared to upgrade every 4 or so years. Nobody said it was a cheap hobby.

I do agree that many games seem like they could perform better. They don't seem to use all available resources (but we don't know if they could use them efficiently) and sometimes they are not even impressive compared to their insane requirements. But I don't know what goes on inside and I can only assume maybe it could run faster. Someone pointed out some person made Skyrim run faster, and that is a good proof.
Click to expand...
Actually i don't expect TW3 to scale relatively well on different hardware. This is why i would like to have opportunity to tweak some things. Menu graphic options don't offer in depth tweaking.

Problem with TW2 was that even if i disable many of the effects - framerate stays practically the same. That's not good.

One of the worst examples of bad optimization is Assassin's Creed 4. This picture tells everything. Everything is on low and i have only 36 frames? With my rig i should have between 55-60 frames here.


Todays developer philosophy is - by better hardware if you want to play our unoptimized game. But dude, your game graphics is nothing special.
 
Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
HellKnightX88

HellKnightX88

Forum veteran
#9
Aug 22, 2014
Ah yes, I remember using that mod. I thought you were referring it the LAA flag.

If you still play Skyrim grab ENB for it's memory patching (you can disable the fancy effects) and the latest SKSE beta for the memory block edits. Game is much more smoother and stable with those.

I remember TW2 being quite tweak friendly just that you had to go digging in some of it's configuration files to be able to do so, someone even released a tool for advanced tweaks, because it wasn't readily available in the launcher (although to be fair the launcher had a lot of options). But yeah, it didn't scale very well with hardware, I agree with you there. It was is really good looking though.
 
M

MrG721

Senior user
#10
Aug 30, 2014
I do believe that CDRED will the best they can do to deliver optimized game, so far I hadn't problem with W1 nor W2 and my PC configuration wasn't top notch machine at the time.
I'm pretty much sure that my i5 2500K, 8 gig of ram and 560gtx will handle game more than enough to enjoy in the game.
 
Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
S

sir-diealot

Rookie
#11
Sep 2, 2014
Personally I don't care if they give you the opportunity to turn the stuff down, just so long as it can take full advantage of better PC's as well.
 
Ancient76

Ancient76

Senior user
#12
Oct 2, 2014
This is what i'm talking about.
This is DX9 game on Unreal Engine 3 called: The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. It's a one of the best looking games ever created through smart design. No DX11 and new generations of engines. Also it works great.
Btw, this is one more masterpiece from Poland!
 

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Grim_Reaper1

Rookie
#13
Jan 8, 2015
Well it would be good to have the ability to tweak settings as much as you can.I personally couldn't care lees weather such options will actually be there as long as game can take full advantage of high end machine to look the best it can.
 
D

DonSwingKing

Rookie
#14
Jan 8, 2015
ancient76 said:
This is what i'm talking about.
This is DX9 game on Unreal Engine 3 called: The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. It's a one of the best looking games ever created through smart design. No DX11 and new generations of engines. Also it works great.
Btw, this is one more masterpiece from Poland!
Click to expand...
The technology they used is special: They basically just take photographs as textures. But this method is very unsuited for other kind of games as Ethan Carter. Developing a compelx RPG with that tech is very difficult. Read more here about the tech:http://www.theastronauts.com/2014/03/visual-revolution-vanishing-ethan-carter/
 
Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
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Ancient76

Ancient76

Senior user
#15
Jan 9, 2015
DonSwingKing said:
The technology they used is special: They basically just take photographs as textures. But this method is very unsuited for other kind of games as Ethan Carter. Developing a compelx RPG with that tech is very difficult. Read more here about the tech:http://www.theastronauts.com/2014/03/visual-revolution-vanishing-ethan-carter/
Click to expand...
Actually there is nothing really special in photogrammetry. And this technique is cheaper and easier then traditional painting and modeling. But you can create similar assets with traditional methods also.
Photogrammetry you can use it in every game, but not for everything. You can't go outside and picture/scan a Dragon, and then bring it to the game, for example.

What is important here in this game is that it looks fantastic, but technically is inferior to many todays games. This is DX9, static lighting, and on old Unreal Engine 3.

And don't think that i don't know what i'm talking about. I create textures and models/meshes for games.
 
Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
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O

ONLY_ONCE

Rookie
#16
Jan 9, 2015
ancient76 said:
This is what i'm talking about.
This is DX9 game on Unreal Engine 3 called: The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. It's a one of the best looking games ever created through smart design. No DX11 and new generations of engines. Also it works great.
Btw, this is one more masterpiece from Poland!
Click to expand...
Yeah, when my girlfriend and I saw screens of this game for the first time a few months back. My first thought was damn... I hope TW3's open world looks this good. I doubt it will, but fuck an A, what if it does look this good in the end? Can they do even do this?
That would be Great! ;) There is an old W3 pic from 2013 that shows Grealt in the day time walking into some village, with an npc feeding some hens in front of him. It looks real awesome, I wish someone could post it here if you have not seen it yet. It's one of my favorite W3 pics so far, the world looks so alive and real :)
 
Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
T

Tuchi

Forum veteran
#17
Jan 17, 2015
as long as noting is cutted or forcefully downgraded i'm in

scaling is ok in all forms. downgrading and cutting is NOT
 
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