Option to censor nudity?

[SigilFey]

We should not censor artistic work. It's a slippery slope. When you give into initial requests for censorship then more intrusive demands are likely to be made in the future. Why are we living in an age where all of society has to cater to the most sensitive and/or fragile people on the planet? We cannot sustain a functional civilization that way.

People need to ask themselves if this is a game for them, or alternatively they must toughen up and expose themselves to what makes them uncomfortable. If you have young kids then you should hire a babysitter while you play the game; or you could wait to play the game until the kids are old enough to play the game for themselves.

The real world is harsh and painful. Cyberpunk 2077 is just a game.

Once again, people requesting something based on preference is not "censoring" anything. Fulfilling someone's request is not "catering" to a specific mentality. People need to stop insinuating that others should not be permitted to make requests because it threatens freedoms and leads to a breakdown of artistic expression. That's utterly nonsensical.

It's also borderline on "making personal judgments of others", which is why I'm posting this to begin with. People are 100% free to request whatever they please. They are 100% free to like or dislike whatever they want, for whatever reasons they wish. They are 100% free to stand by their preferences and argue their thoughts.

No one is free to criticize others for their preferences or for making requests.

On the other side of that same coin, just because someone asks for something, it does not mean that others are required to fulfill that request. Sometimes, we get what we wish for. Sometimes, we have to take what's offered or go without.

For Cyberpunk 2077, it's already been confirmed that there will be versions that censor nudity, so I'm not sure why there's still discussion about whether it will / will not be part of the game. Yes, nudity can be censored (at least in certain regions). There was talk of options to censor certain content to allow streamers to broadcast the game without infracting on the policies of certain channels in regards to graphic sexuality, violence, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if those options were made universally available.

If anyone would prefer to play the game with all of the adult content included, they may simply choose not to use the censored options. There's no issue. At this stage, an argument of "don't cater to people who want X" is suffering from a fallacy of reasoning. If the world is not supposed to be catering to a particular side, then why should it cater to side Y instead of X? If everyone should simply accept things for what they are, then that goes for everyone, not just for the people that liked the first version of something but not the second.

As always, providing people with options is the most constructive approach.

 

[malkavik]

Once again, people requesting something based on preference is not "censoring" anything. Fulfilling someone's request is not "catering" to a specific mentality. People need to stop insinuating that others should not be permitted to make requests because it threatens freedoms and leads to a breakdown of artistic expression. That's utterly nonsensical.

It's also borderline on "making personal judgments of others", which is why I'm posting this to begin with. People are 100% free to request whatever they please. They are 100% free to like or dislike whatever they want, for whatever reasons they wish. They are 100% free to stand by their preferences and argue their thoughts.

No one is free to criticize others for their preferences or for making requests.

On the other side of that same coin, just because someone asks for something, it does not mean that others are required to fulfill that request. Sometimes, we get what we wish for. Sometimes, we have to take what's offered or go without.

For Cyberpunk 2077, it's already been confirmed that there will be versions that censor nudity, so I'm not sure why there's still discussion about whether it will / will not be part of the game. Yes, nudity can be censored (at least in certain regions). There was talk of options to censor certain content to allow streamers to broadcast the game without infracting on the policies of certain channels in regards to graphic sexuality, violence, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if those options were made universally available.

If anyone would prefer to play the game with all of the adult content included, they may simply choose not to use the censored options. There's no issue. At this stage, an argument of "don't cater to people who want X" is suffering from a fallacy of reasoning. If the world is not supposed to be catering to a particular side, then why should it cater to side Y instead of X? If everyone should simply accept things for what they are, then that goes for everyone, not just for the people that liked the first version of something but not the second.

As always, providing people with options is the most constructive approach.

I'm happy to hear hey are already doing it. I'd like more information about the options being put in place. I'm more on the side of the fence of buying the game now, but I'm still worried about the options not being universally accessible. Are they accessible in the U.S. version upon release? If not, how can I find out if/when they will be available? Could you send me a link to the information that's available on this? I'm asking a lot of questions, so I'm just excited. Will it be a set of options or just one setting where it incorporates all of the features or none of them?

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

The real world is harsh and painful. Cyberpunk 2077 is just a game.

"If they can't handle the pressure, they shouldn't be playing Cyberpunk. Send them back to that nice role-playing game with the happy elves and the singing birds."
-Mike Pondsmith.

 

[keiiiii999]

Once again, people requesting something based on preference is not "censoring" anything. Fulfilling someone's request is not "catering" to a specific mentality. People need to stop insinuating that others should not be permitted to make requests because it threatens freedoms and leads to a breakdown of artistic expression. That's utterly nonsensical.

It's also borderline on "making personal judgments of others", which is why I'm posting this to begin with. People are 100% free to request whatever they please. They are 100% free to like or dislike whatever they want, for whatever reasons they wish. They are 100% free to stand by their preferences and argue their thoughts.

No one is free to criticize others for their preferences or for making requests.

On the other side of that same coin, just because someone asks for something, it does not mean that others are required to fulfill that request. Sometimes, we get what we wish for. Sometimes, we have to take what's offered or go without.

For Cyberpunk 2077, it's already been confirmed that there will be versions that censor nudity, so I'm not sure why there's still discussion about whether it will / will not be part of the game. Yes, nudity can be censored (at least in certain regions). There was talk of options to censor certain content to allow streamers to broadcast the game without infracting on the policies of certain channels in regards to graphic sexuality, violence, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if those options were made universally available.

If anyone would prefer to play the game with all of the adult content included, they may simply choose not to use the censored options. There's no issue. At this stage, an argument of "don't cater to people who want X" is suffering from a fallacy of reasoning. If the world is not supposed to be catering to a particular side, then why should it cater to side Y instead of X? If everyone should simply accept things for what they are, then that goes for everyone, not just for the people that liked the first version of something but not the second.

As always, providing people with options is the most constructive approach.

Exactly. It's not censorship if it's an optional filter. Those who want to use it will use it, and those who don't want to won't. Very simple. [Edited for tone -- SigilFey]....like people who have their windows open complaining about other people's option to close theirs. Just saying.

 

[Neuronin]

Exactly. It's not censorship if it's an optional filter. Those who want to use it will use it, and those who don't want to won't. Very simple. I think people who overreact to optional filters are way more fragile....like people who have their windows open complaining about other people's option to close theirs. Just saying.

An optional filter isn't what I am concerned about.

Once again, people requesting something based on preference is not "censoring" anything. Fulfilling someone's request is not "catering" to a specific mentality. People need to stop insinuating that others should not be permitted to make requests because it threatens freedoms and leads to a breakdown of artistic expression. That's utterly nonsensical. As always, providing people with options is the most constructive approach.

I am worried about the slippery-slope effect. The problem isn't the initial request for an optional filter, but the potential watering-down of artistic work when preference-requests eventually turn into more intrusive demands for actual censorship. Many people who make these request aren't necessarily honest actors. A lot of them are political activists who have a very different agenda.

So let me make it clear that an optional filter is fine, and I completely agree that it isn't censorship. However, if you know anything about the current political climate we cannot afford to compromise on our values with regards to artistic integrity or freedom of expression.

 

[Codecypher]

Why play a game like Cyberpunk 2077 (or any 18+ game to be honest) with a family? Does this game sound like fun for a whole family?

Assisting someone hammering nails through their limbs sounds like a family friendly time.

 

[SigilFey]

I am worried about the slippery-slope effect. The problem isn't the initial request for an optional filter, but the potential watering-down of artistic work when preference-requests eventually turn into more intrusive demands for actual censorship. Many people who make these request aren't necessarily honest actors. A lot of them are political activists who have a very different agenda.

So let me make it clear that an optional filter is fine, and I completely agree that it isn't censorship. However, if you know anything about the current political climate we cannot afford to compromise on our values with regards to artistic integrity or freedom of expression.

Worried about the freedom of expression that has survived, for example, the collapse of Rome, the nearly 1,500 years of feudal life governed by strict moral codes and rigid theocracy, the Spanish Inquisition, centuries of government mandated sanctions on public behavior, and modern censorship boards? The creativity that has continued, world-wide, without a single period of lapse, despite countless organized movements to dictate societal norms? The Art that has flooded the market for millennia and, as of today, now freely populated the internet: thousands of years of evolving artforms available to anyone and everyone across the globe, instantly accessible by devices that fit in our pockets?

You're worried that if a video game -- one which exhibits full-frontal nudity, extremely graphic violence, rampant drug use, and excessive profanity -- includes a filter...so that people with 6-year-old children can feel a little more comfortable playing it...this is going to suddenly and irrevocably suppress the free-flow of creative expression that defines Humanity as a species?

(Skims back over history in his mind...looks at what the censorship boards allowed without an AO rating...checks again on the overall interest in Cyberpunk 2077...)

I'm not really all that worried.

Life has this funny way of just, sort of, working out, usually. It's perfectly fine to tell people not to blare music at 3:00 am. It's perfectly fine to tell people not swear at the dinner table. It's perfectly fine to tell people that sexualized imagery is not appropriate for the classroom. Respecting other's wishes does not lead to a breakdown of freedom.

 

[keiiiii999]

An optional filter isn't what I am concerned about.



I am worried about the slippery-slope effect. The problem isn't the initial request for an optional filter, but the potential watering-down of artistic work when preference-requests eventually turn into more intrusive demands for actual censorship. Many people who make these request aren't necessarily honest actors. A lot of them are political activists who have a very different agenda.

So let me make it clear that an optional filter is fine, and I completely agree that it isn't censorship. However, if you know anything about the current political climate we cannot afford to compromise on our values with regards to artistic integrity or freedom of expression.

Or they're just ordinary people with a different preference. You assume too much. It's as weird as me assuming that all people who like violent sexual imagery and art are violent maniacs in real life. Games aren't like paintings or music, they're interactive and based a lot on player input / experience. That's why developers include a lot more options for that, like they should.

 

[malkavik]

An optional filter isn't what I am concerned about.



I am worried about the slippery-slope effect. The problem isn't the initial request for an optional filter, but the potential watering-down of artistic work when preference-requests eventually turn into more intrusive demands for actual censorship. Many people who make these request aren't necessarily honest actors. A lot of them are political activists who have a very different agenda.

So let me make it clear that an optional filter is fine, and I completely agree that it isn't censorship. However, if you know anything about the current political climate we cannot afford to compromise on our values with regards to artistic integrity or freedom of expression.

In a nutshell, I wouldn't be worried about a slippery slope. but outside of that nutshell...

Being worried about a slippery slope effect is a bit misguided. While it may seem logical it usually isn't. That's why slippery slope is a fallacy. Just because events may seem a domino effect leading to catastrophe doesn't mean that is the case.

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

"slippery slope
You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture."

Now, just because you defended your point of view with the slippery slope fallacy doesn't mean your argument is definitely wrong because of that. It could be you defended a true argument in a poor way.

Your logical fallacy is the fallacy fallacy

You presumed that because a claim has been poorly argued, or a fallacy has been made, that the claim itself must be wrong.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

"the fallacy fallacy
You presumed that because a claim has been poorly argued, or a fallacy has been made, that the claim itself must be wrong.
It is entirely possible to make a claim that is false yet argue with logical coherency for that claim, just as it is possible to make a claim that is true and justify it with various fallacies and poor arguments."

You may want to come up with a different argument.

 

[LYWormwood]

As far as I'm concerned some locales would have censorship, but would be nice to have one as option (I won't disable it)

 

[Neuronin]

Worried about the freedom of expression that has survived, for example, the collapse of Rome, the nearly 1,500 years of feudal life governed by strict moral codes and rigid theocracy, the Spanish Inquisition, centuries of government mandated sanctions on public behavior, and modern censorship boards? The creativity that has continued, world-wide, without a single period of lapse, despite countless organized movements to dictate societal norms? The Art that has flooded the market for millennia and, as of today, now freely populated the internet: thousands of years of evolving artforms available to anyone and everyone across the globe, instantly accessible by devices that fit in our pockets?

You're worried that if a video game -- one which exhibits full-frontal nudity, extremely graphic violence, rampant drug use, and excessive profanity -- includes a filter...so that people with 6-year-old children can feel a little more comfortable playing it...this is going to suddenly and irrevocably suppress the free-flow of creative expression that defines Humanity as a species?

I'm not really all that worried.

Life has this funny way of just, sort of, working out, usually. It's perfectly fine to tell people not to blare music at 3:00 am. It's perfectly fine to tell people not swear at the dinner table. It's perfectly fine to tell people that sexualized imagery is not appropriate for the classroom. Respecting other's wishes does not lead to a breakdown of freedom.

Western Civilization as we know it today is an extremely rare phenomenon, and it is much more fragile than most people realize. We didn't just arrive at ideas like democracy, freedom of expression or human rights by magic. We have a functional civilization today only because hundreds of millions of people have endured unimaginable suffering and made great sacrifices in the name of freedom and liberty; and not because life just sort of works out, like magic.

I was about to write a longer response to your post, but I am not going down a rabbit hole on this one. Let us get back to discussing the topic more narrowly as it relates to the actual game. This is not the place for an in-depth discussion about politics, history or philosophy.

 

[Cargan2016]

Didnt they already solve this with the streamer mode option to where it censors the worst since it would get streams banned or demonetized or whatever months ago?

 

[Matchst1ckk]

Look, as much as I don't want it to happen, someone will walk in on me playing the game during a scene with nudity or sex, as opposed to any other time when I'd be doing literally anything else. There are memes about this, and you best believe there'll be Cyberpunk 2077 versions of the meme.

If some people want to censor for whatever their reasons may be, then it's fine by me. I won't use it (unless me getting walked in on is getting ridiculous perhaps) The past 18 months (ish) of following news for this game has taught me that a lot of people don't understand what Cyberpunk is as a sub genre of science fiction, and why nudity exists in the way that it does. It is what it is to me.

 

[SigilFey]

Western Civilization as we know it today is an extremely rare phenomenon, and it is much more fragile than most people realize. We didn't just arrive at ideas like democracy, freedom of expression or human rights by magic. We have a functional civilization today only because hundreds of millions of people have endured unimaginable suffering and made great sacrifices in the name of freedom and liberty; and not because life just sort of works out, like magic.

I was about to write a longer response to your post, but I am not going down a rabbit hole on this one. Let us get back to discussing the topic more narrowly as it relates to the actual game. This is not the place for an in-depth discussion about politics, history or philosophy.

Life has been exactly the same for...pretty much all of eternity. Our modern, Western society is a pretty close analog for Ancient Greece during its hayday...Ancient Egypt...Ancient Rome...the Byzantine period...smaller pockets like the Merovingian dynasty or the larger French aristocratic period...the Roaring '20s in the US...booming areas of the modern day like the Arab Spring...

There are countless examples of exactly what we would call "Modern Western Society" throughout time. Cultures that are defined more by excess and the pursuit of luxury and leisure than any sort of struggle for survival or unification for pursuit of a shared goal or ideal. It never changes. It's just a great big cycle. Like all of history.

(And what rabbit hole? Why would this be an invalid reflection on an issue of the wider impact of censorship concerning a present video game? Are we suddenly cut off from what history has evidenced? When did the world become so compartmentalized? [That would be infinitely convenient, overall, actually! ])

Naw. Speaking of the game directly, a creative piece does not "suffer" and is not being "repressed" simply because it's put behind a door with warning sign on it. Art does not suffer as a whole because there's a ticket booth out front that tells 12-year-olds they're not allowed to enter. And even if one region of the world shouts: "No way! Completely unacceptable! Total ban -- no exceptions!" ... the next region over will be, like, "We'll take twenty thousand units!"

Didnt they already solve this with the streamer mode option to where it censors the worst since it would get streams banned or demonetized or whatever months ago?

It has been so spoken, but I don't think any specific details were released on what content in particular would be affected except for nudity being censored by character models wearing underwear. No idea how language or whatnot will be handled.

Look, as much as I don't want it to happen, someone will walk in on me playing the game during a scene with nudity or sex, as opposed to any other time when I'd be doing literally anything else. There are memes about this, and you best believe there'll be Cyberpunk 2077 versions of the meme.

If some people want to censor for whatever their reasons may be, then it's fine by me. I won't use it (unless me getting walked in on is getting ridiculous perhaps) The past 18 months (ish) of following news for this game has taught me that a lot of people don't understand what Cyberpunk is as a sub genre of science fiction, and why nudity exists in the way that it does. It is what it is to me.

Exactly. It will work one of two ways:

1.) A toggle or installation option. Okay with adult content? Flip switch. Don't want it? Flip switch. Change your mind? Flip switch.

or

2.) This region has this version; that region has another. Don't agree with the version in your region. Sorry! If you change your mind, you're welcome back! (Or, you can move. All depends on how important a video game is to people, I guess...)

Either way, the dev's original vision will be there in spades. The harsh and gritty version will still exist. If people aren't satisfied with the way it worked out for them, they are free to fill their time with something else.

For those who want to argue, "NO. Things should work the way I say they should, because [insert whatever]!" -- I hope they are well acquainted with disappointment. Things will always work out exactly as they are going to work out, regardless of everyone's feelings on the matter.

We don't change the way world works. We simply better learn to deal with reality in the moment. We should all feel free to express thoughts on things -- absolutely! But expecting that my thoughts or feelings will ever be placed above other people's is a highway to endless frustration. "Sharing" and "expecting gratification" are two very different things.

 

[AmberyaDaTenko]

Or you sit your folks down lay down your right to play your game. Nudity has never been hidden to me age 6 my dude that was 25 years ago

 

[SigilFey]

Or you sit your folks down lay down your right to play your game. Nudity has never been hidden to me age 6 my dude that was 25 years ago

If that's fine with you, then that's your bag. If other people disagree, they are free to handle things the way they think is best. There's no issue either way. The only time we run into an issue is when people try to impose their personal views onto others who have different views.

Hence: options! If you like X, flip the switch. If you prefer Y, there's a button for that. Etc.

(In general, however, I don't recommend taking the people who have housed and raised you for years at their own expense and trying to "show them how it's gonna be". That is often a great way of finding oneself apartment hunting before one is truly ready for such responsibilities. Making an argument is fine, but respect equally important. [Just like on the forums! ] Besides, most of the concerns raised here are from parents who do not want their younger children seeing such content. My family was never super restrictive on mature material, either, but that is definitely not the norm.)

 

[Flyddon]

I don't recommend taking the people who have housed and raised you for years at their own expense and trying to "show them how it's gonna be". That is often a great way of finding oneself apartment hunting before one is truly ready for such responsibilities.

My son did this, or close to it, TOLD us when and with who he would be coming in the house with. We had told him no over night guest and if he was going to be getting in late (11pm or later to call). We found out the next day, that yes his mom does know how to pack a car and yes ALL of his shit can fit in his Chevy impala, including that ratty ass "gaming chair". He was 22 at the time. Good life lesson I thought.

 

[superpunked2077]

Aparently this has been confirmed you can now?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330498996092211200

 

[Zihlus]

I don't mind a censor nudity toggle. (I'll never use it, but w.e)

I hate censorship so much. If a game/movie or w.e is clearly labeled M or R or even A then you have been told first hand.
If you don't want friends/family seeing nudity then don't play/watch stuff with it with them. Just my opinion.

Now if a studio wants to help out as much as possible by putting in a toggle then by all means do so, but if that toggle causes them to cut or remove scenes because of it- I have a problem with that. I want to play this game and enjoy the world as it was intended.

There are not many studios/ producers willing to release "adult" games, so I have been excited about 2077 because they want to stay true to the medium (which I enjoyed playing so much). I just honestly don't want to see another one of my favorite studios fall from grace (simply because folks don't want mature content in a mature game).

Basically If the toggle doesn't interfere with my experience, then fine. to each their own. If it does start interfering, then I'm gonna be pissed.

 

[superpunked2077]

I don't mind a censor nudity toggle. (I'll never use it, but w.e)

I hate censorship so much. If a game/movie or w.e is clearly labeled M or R or even A then you have been told first hand.
If you don't want friends/family seeing nudity then don't play/watch stuff with it with them. Just my opinion.

Now if a studio wants to help out as much as possible by putting in a toggle then by all means do so, but if that toggle causes them to cut or remove scenes because of it- I have a problem with that. I want to play this game and enjoy the world as it was intended.

There are not many studios/ producers willing to release "adult" games, so I have been excited about 2077 because they want to stay true to the medium (which I enjoyed playing so much). I just honestly don't want to see another one of my favorite studios fall from grace (simply because folks don't want mature content in a mature game).

Basically If the toggle doesn't interfere with my experience, then fine. to each their own. If it does start interfering, then I'm gonna be pissed.

I dont see how it possibly could interfere with the base experiance. (plenty of that discussion in this thread already) Just think of it like the streamer music toggle thing. People probably didnt read that and think "oh no censorship" right? No difference.

(and actually im pretty sure the main reason for them doing this is the same to..)