Fortunately this isn't too much of an either/or subject if CDPR handles this carefully.
I'd like the people who don't want to be confronted with inaccessible options, to be given AT LEAST the the option to turn them off. Not giving them that option would be a shame since that apparently hampers their playstyle/enjoyment. If anything, this thread taught me there's more of those players out there than I thought and gave me an understanding of why they think like that.
But if CDPR goes the opposite direction and never gives the people WHO DO want to be confronted with them, an option to turn them on, then types like me will simply open up a wikia after a first playthrough when the rest of the community is done jotting down its notes. That'll probably happen quickly enough with all the interest in CP77 and we'll figure it out ourselves. No harm done.
Either way, I'll be fine, and the option would be appreciated if CDPR manages to get to it.
I'd like the people who don't want to be confronted with inaccessible options, to be given AT LEAST the the option to turn them off. Not giving them that option would be a shame since that apparently hampers their playstyle/enjoyment. If anything, this thread taught me there's more of those players out there than I thought and gave me an understanding of why they think like that.
But if CDPR goes the opposite direction and never gives the people WHO DO want to be confronted with them, an option to turn them on, then types like me will simply open up a wikia after a first playthrough when the rest of the community is done jotting down its notes. That'll probably happen quickly enough with all the interest in CP77 and we'll figure it out ourselves. No harm done.
Either way, I'll be fine, and the option would be appreciated if CDPR manages to get to it.
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Nice to see at least a couple people concerned about this too.
Not sure if that's enough and the issue that much of an... well, issue for CDPR to take notice though. At least not here in the forums since CDPR as of late seems to have switched over to tumblr (exclusively?) of all places, to take and answer questions about Cyberpunk 2077.
Does anyone remember the repeated requests and pleas to add an option for manual sword unsheathing/sheathing in The Witcher 3?
It was implemented eventually with a later patch (much too late, if you ask me) but it showed again that it's typically the little, useful (subjective, I know) things with a smaller, not as verbal and not as "loud" backing of people that gets overlooked and drowned out and maybe, just maybe picked up on at a later date, often when it's too late.
You'd think and hope that the request for something as simple as a toggle to hide interactions or dialogue options you're technically as well as in the (spoiling) meta context not supposed to see or to be made aware of would be taken serious but with Cyberpunk 2077 having been and still(?) being "streamlined" in various RPG aspects I think it's more likely to be brushed aside in favour of something more important like being able to colour V's eyebrows in neon green or something.
Not sure if that's enough and the issue that much of an... well, issue for CDPR to take notice though. At least not here in the forums since CDPR as of late seems to have switched over to tumblr (exclusively?) of all places, to take and answer questions about Cyberpunk 2077.
Does anyone remember the repeated requests and pleas to add an option for manual sword unsheathing/sheathing in The Witcher 3?
It was implemented eventually with a later patch (much too late, if you ask me) but it showed again that it's typically the little, useful (subjective, I know) things with a smaller, not as verbal and not as "loud" backing of people that gets overlooked and drowned out and maybe, just maybe picked up on at a later date, often when it's too late.
You'd think and hope that the request for something as simple as a toggle to hide interactions or dialogue options you're technically as well as in the (spoiling) meta context not supposed to see or to be made aware of would be taken serious but with Cyberpunk 2077 having been and still(?) being "streamlined" in various RPG aspects I think it's more likely to be brushed aside in favour of something more important like being able to colour V's eyebrows in neon green or something.
They aren't answering any further questions on Tumblr, as far as I can tell. They had the one Q&A session and that was it.
As for answering questions on the forums, they've never been super active here. It's unfortunate as a user, but it's understandable. A lot of silly, complicated, or unfair questions/suggestions get posted here, and they can't possibly respond to all of it.
As for this specific topic, it'd definitely be nice! Let's hope they implement it.
If they include such an option or options - and I too really hope they do - I'd like to see it extended to the environmental or contextual interactions like
as well.
So that if your character or more specifically if your skills don't meet the requirement (in the above instance Hacking 5 [out of 5]) you don't get to see even the greyed out (Hacking: 1/5) qualifier and something along the lines of Requirement not met or Access denied instead.
I wonder if the unqualified dialogue lines or dialogue options being visible was just due to the demo being in dev/debug mode for the behind-closed-doors presentation and everything you're not supposed to see is actually hidden by default.
as well.
So that if your character or more specifically if your skills don't meet the requirement (in the above instance Hacking 5 [out of 5]) you don't get to see even the greyed out (Hacking: 1/5) qualifier and something along the lines of Requirement not met or Access denied instead.
I wonder if the unqualified dialogue lines or dialogue options being visible was just due to the demo being in dev/debug mode for the behind-closed-doors presentation and everything you're not supposed to see is actually hidden by default.
Actually the character should be able to try no matter what.
Try what?
If he doesn’t posses the knowledge of a certain topic, he shouldn’t be able to speak about it in a knowledgeable way (and the player doesn’t need hints about it).
If the situation is about trying to affect someones feelings/position, like bargaining, persuading, intimidating, lying, seducing, pleading, begging.... That’s different. In that case it should a check (RNG) of an applicable skill against the NPC’s disposition that might have a range of results (positive and negative).
But presenting knowledge doesn’t work like that. You either know X much of something, or you don’t.
You mean that if I don't know how to operate an Car I can't even try?
I was talking about dialog. Dialog options is what I commented on in the post you quoted. There's no sense in hiding interactive objects (like cars or terminals) from the character or the player. Not knowing how to use something is one thing, not knowing something can be interacted with is another.
Obviously every skillcheck where there is an attempt should be something the character can attempt and succeed or fail at depending on a diceroll.
That counts for everything else other than checks where gating makes sense; like presenting knowledge in dialog or having sufficient strength to lift/move/break something for example.
I personally, In my honest opinion, with no offense to anyone, Really really like seeing the fully shown "grayed/faded-out option" of dialogue that I couldn't say because of my choices. I want to know what I'm missing within the context of the event taking place in the game (not in a game guide, since It loses it's context even if it says where it is in the game) so that I can decided If I actually prefer choosing different options in my next run. The problem is that if I don't know what those options were, and can't get a feel for what I could have said (right in that moment) then I have no motivation or curiosity to say "Hey you know, that other choice could have let me say this, I need to re-start the game over again and choose that option because it better suits my style"
On the other side, if there was a very clearly made and mostly-spoiler-free screenshot-only-walkthrough-slideshow (like an official CDPR Guide to the game) Maybe I could see some different samples of what the different types of characters would or could say before I start my first run? That way I can get it juuuuust right for my style on the first attempt, Because I am the type of person who probably would be 1/2 way through the game and realize I don't like something or where an option led me to go and have to just completely restart the whole game and make the better choices again on that try.
On the other side, if there was a very clearly made and mostly-spoiler-free screenshot-only-walkthrough-slideshow (like an official CDPR Guide to the game) Maybe I could see some different samples of what the different types of characters would or could say before I start my first run? That way I can get it juuuuust right for my style on the first attempt, Because I am the type of person who probably would be 1/2 way through the game and realize I don't like something or where an option led me to go and have to just completely restart the whole game and make the better choices again on that try.
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Actually imho there is few differences between hidden difficulty gating and dice roll.
If it's optional, I'm in agreement. I'm definitely going to let myself see the choices though for sure. I love the freedom of having the options.
Sure there are.
With a diceroll you can fail or succeed. With a gate, you can only succeed - so, in dialog, the option doesn't need to be shown before you can succeed.
I like it when a game allows me to at least try to do anything. Even if the game is like "Whoa, I dunno, are you sure you want to try that?" I want to be able to say "Yes! Let me try! I know I'm realllly good, I can do this!" and maybe If I'm smart enough about how I do it, the game actually lets me "win" at trying whatever I was trying. Game is like "Whoa! You actually did that, alright, you win then. You earned it!" Would be so cool!
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I do love the freedom to do what ever I want so I don't like "gates" usually, But I also get some serious bad feels from dice-rolls because sometimes you will "roll" in a video game and the game will say "Lol you totally lost" like that one fallout game where there was a level 99 locked door, and the door is made out of broken wood and glass that the main character could easily step over. High level character with high level lock picking or what ever that skill was attempts it and the dice roll fails, potentially leaving the door locked, and the player doomed to never open it (I think it was something like that) So I don't exactly like dice-rolls because they can be immersion-breaking. You know?
I think "bad rolls" are an essential part of the experience. It's not "fun" to fail, but failure makes the success feel more valuable, and it and the tension of hoping for a success help create the overall fun and memorability of the experience.
Fallout doesn't have difficulty indicators on the locks (before Fallout 3). In Fallout, prior to Fallout 3, you can pick the doors, kick them open, bash them open with a melee weapon, blow them open. The locks difficulty isn't tied to the condition of the door. And you are not limited to picking them. Also, about the mechanics there, if the locks difficulty is 99 (however you've managed to get that info), that number is subtracted from your skill level, so the chances of picking it might well be something like -90.
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Warning: this post is long. Get some tea, or just don't read it. No offense! Have a nice day
I like challenge, but it really matters how a game handles that challenge. If I know I can do something, and I do a dice-roll and the game causes a dice-roll-fail on something very silly, I could maybe laugh a few times, but it gets me tired very quickly if the game teases me like that, but not in a fun way. I want the game to make me believe that it was possible for that dice-roll to fail. I like it when I'm like "Yea I could understand that, makes sense" but when I'm like "GRRR REALLY???" (this is the most common type I encounter Lol)
Another good example is that many games don't understand (I'm NOT pointing to CDPR because they're really great!
) the difference between "Challenge" as in "work really hard and think really smart and succeed and feel really good about having earned something or found a highly creative way to defeat or solve a problem or get around something so you can be victorious or gain access to something VS "This game is just really difficult and will punish the player over and over until they go "reeeeeeeeeeeee!" and flush their computer down the toilet" LOL There is a difference. Like some games make the player feel that no matter what they do, they're gonna feel some harsh defeat, where as games that understand how to properly make challenge in a good way, the player can work hard and think really smart and eventually do some amazing things if they put the effort in, like using the right strategies or thinking outside the box. I love games that make me think really deep, But to be fair, at the same time I don't like it when games introduce puzzles that have no contextual basis in anything and the only way to solve them is to press random buttons for several hours and look up a guide. I like the feeling of when there are challenges, but I can tap into my intelligence to solve them without looking up a guide.
I hope this helps, or makes my perspective easy to understand. I'm just sharing, thanks for listening. Peace
I personally like to see the "unavailable" options. It's very engaging to see examples of how things might have gone if I had handled things differently. Gives me constantly evolving ideas for different characters as I play and tends to lure me back to games.
Although, I could easily see how people would prefer the surprises and wouldn't want anything spoiled. As the game needs to be able to decide whether to grey it out, it should just as easily be able to hide it altogether.
Although, I could easily see how people would prefer the surprises and wouldn't want anything spoiled. As the game needs to be able to decide whether to grey it out, it should just as easily be able to hide it altogether.