Other games and Cyberpunk 2077: what could latter borrow from them?

[Sardukhar]

I enjoy the combat of DS...just not the repetitive nature of the setting/gameplay and the lack of RPG depth is all.

If 2077 borrows heavily from it, with some leeway so we can be more agile, I think I'd be fine with that. I mean, what better melee games are out there right now?

What I hope they -don't- take from is the relative sameness of the gear from DS or Skyrim. There are lots of weird and interesting varieties of gear in Cyberpunk, not just variants of axe/dagger/sword/etc.

In other words, although I want to see 6 or seven assault rifles,shotguns, pistols, I also hope for pulse weapons, monowhips, battlegloves, flechette pistols, twenty kinds of ammo, paintball gun, AM rifle, so on.

And that's before we get into tool-specific gear and cyberwear.

Truly in a modern tech world, there is an argument that gear is our special abilities.

 

[Suhiira]

Player skills should be where the true "I do XYZ better, and thus do more damage" progression should come from (weapon handling and the like), not from a "this gun does +6 damage because reasons" sort of thing. That's definitely one concern I have.

The only way player or character skills should increase damage is if you hit un or lesser protected part of the body or a vital area.
All the skill in the world won't make a 7.62x39mm hit any harder then it's ballistics allow.

In other words, although I want to see 6 or seven assault rifles,shotguns, pistols, <clip>

Why not?
A 5.56x45 is different from a 7.62x39 from a 6.5x55 from a 6.8x43, yet all are assault rifles.
Look up the ballistic tables for all these ammo types and you'll see significant differences in energy delivered and trajectory.

And .22 LR and .44 Mag are both "pistols" .. yet VASTLY different weapons.

 

[Mefris]

Yeah, I'd say I found the DS class progression very bland and in the end, pretty homogenous.

The Souls games don't actually have a class system.The "class" you choose at the beginning of the game is basically a package of stats that come with a recommended playstyle attached to them.From there you can choose to specialize in one direction,"multi-class" or go for a Jack of all Trades master of none type of deal.

Playstyle was very similar regardless. Mind you, we are talking Action RPGs and I'm not sure what that term means.

From my experience Sard the only reason the playstyles would feel similar is if you play the game the same way with each character.A INT/FTH based character focused on casting and avoiding damage does,in no way,play the same as a STR build Knight that just sits and tanks damage.Well,unless you make active strides towards that.

I'm not playing a role in Dark Souls other than "Nameless Fighter Dude Sometimes With Magic"...petty much Doom with melee and stat progression.

I can't express in words how much I disagree with this statement.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I would hate it if the game turned into a DS copycat even as far as combat goes.

 

[Mefris]

I would hate it if the game turned into a DS copycat even as far as combat goes.

I don't think that's even remotely possible (for a plethora of reasons).

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't think that's even remotely possible (for a plethora of reasons).

Never say never.

I didn't think there'd be a chance in the world that Fallout would be turned into a mediocre FPS that abandons everything that made the series good and revered in the first place, the possibility just didn't add up in any way, but it still happened.

 

[Mefris]

Ha,I actually expected exactly that to happen when I saw Bethesda got the rights.On the other hand I thought Bioware could do no wrong and look where that got me.

 

[Rawls]

On the other hand I thought Bioware could do no wrong and look where that got me.

Yeah ... some of us are still hoping they can turn it around. Feels like:

 

[Suhiira]

Never say never.

I didn't think there'd be a chance in the world that Fallout would be turned into a mediocre FPS that abandons everything that made the series good and revered in the first place, the possibility just didn't add up in any way, but it still happened.

Actually we saw it coming with Fallout 3.
Remember Bethesda didn't make Fallout New Vegas.

 

[Mefris]

Yeah ... some of us are still hoping they can turn it around. Feels like:

And the rest of us are like:

 

[Guest 4149880]

Actually we saw it coming with Fallout 3.
Remember Bethesda didn't make Fallout New Vegas.

Is there any right way to develop a video game based on a PnP for everyone?
Who else has done it the right way?
When it comes right down to actual gameplay, with an open world with guns, what's the expectations?

These are basic questions I don't see many people clearly answering for themselves. There will probably be basic shooter mechanics in real time, if not that then its turn based. After that I don't know how the game would end up playing, by using very quirky design choices to be different in all areas or make the best game using the best mechanics that work.

 

[BjornTheBandit]

Anyone else here ever play Resonance of Fate? It's kind of an odd bird, but when I figured out the immensely complicated turn-based action shooter combat, I found it to be a really rewarding and refreshing take on gunplay. I could see some of the acrobatics and gun modification having a place in CB2077

 

[Guest 4149880]

Anyone else here ever play Resonance of Fate? It's kind of an odd bird, but when I figured out the immensely complicated turn-based action shooter combat, I found it to be a really rewarding and refreshing take on gunplay. I could see some of the acrobatics and gun modification having a place in CB2077

Yes I remember that game. Unique yeah but I can't say I'd want that type of system in 2077 personally.

I wonder if CDPR will incorporate a hybrid system of real time and turn based into 2077 just for combat gameplay enjoyment. I doubt it but who knows what the "Tactical Mode" is. Its been compared to Fallouts VATS but The Surge also uses a real time body part targeting system as well, but it doesn't slow time. But the players character changes fight stances based on different target areas mainly used for melee.

I could also see 2077 using a similar 3rd person enemy target system akin to The Surge or Dark Souls games or even Witcher 3, but with the use of guns. Rather then the typical TPS,FPS mechanics.

 

[BjornTheBandit]

Yes I remember that game. Unique yeah but I can't say I'd want that type of system in 2077 personally.

I wonder if CDPR will incorporate a hybrid system of real time and turn based into 2077 just for combat gameplay enjoyment. I doubt it but who knows what the "Tactical Mode" is. Its been compared to Fallouts VATS but The Surge also uses a real time body part targeting system as well, but it doesn't slow time. But the players character changes fight stances based on different target areas mainly used for melee.

I could also see 2077 using a similar 3rd person enemy target system akin to The Surge or Dark Souls games or even Witcher 3, but with the use of guns. Rather then the typical TPS,FPS mechanics.

Oh no, certainly not ALL of it! I was just thinking about the PnP 3 second turns and realized that they something similar that was wonky but wound up working in its own context

 

[Suhiira]

There will probably be basic shooter mechanics in real time, if not that then its turn based.

I've yet to figure out why people insist combat mechanics must be either real time (probably player based) or turn based (probably character based).
Most MMOs use real time tab targeting which is a hybrid of both.
Now I fully understand why that system doesn't appeal to everyone, but it's not a binary situation/solution.

 

[Guest 4149880]

I've yet to figure out why people insist combat mechanics must be either real time (probably player based) or turn based (probably character based).
Most MMOs use real time tab targeting which is a hybrid of both.
Now I fully understand why that system doesn't appeal to everyone, but it's not a binary situation/solution.

Because in MMO's its basically turn based number systems flowing in real time with the illusion of real time combat but the actions aren't based on "physical interactions, just empty animations. Swing and hit, swing and miss, shoot and hit, shoot and miss. Its just percentages, which in a game like 2077, I'd much prefer actual contact and hitboxes in combat.

 

[Suhiira]

Because in MMO's its basically turn based number systems flowing in real time with the illusion of real time combat but the actions aren't based on "physical interactions, just empty animations. Swing and hit, swing and miss, shoot and hit, shoot and miss. Its just percentages, which in a game like 2077, I'd much prefer actual contact and hitboxes in combat.

Here we'll just have to disagree. Player combat skills have no place in an RPG. That's why FPS games exist.

 

[Guest 4149880]

Here we'll just have to disagree. Player combat skills have no place in an RPG. That's why FPS games exist.

Then we totally disagree on this area, I think player skills and RPG mechanics can co-exist well, its just comes down to what type of RPG it is.

I personally don't expect 2077 to run purely on RPG mechanics, there will probably be a sense of player skill mechanics as well.

 

[Sardukhar]

Then we totally disagree on this area, I think player skills and RPG mechanics can co-exist well, its just comes down to what type of RPG it is.

I personally don't expect 2077 to run purely on RPG mechanics, there will probably be a sense of player skill mechanics as well.

Yeah CDPR said as much. Which is good, since I find Su's definition of "player skill" to be way too limited. She means physical skill shouldn't be involved, but mental, tactical skills are fine. That's no more fair than physical skill, I think.

It'll be a tough balance.

 

[Guest 4149880]

Yeah CDPR said as much. Which is good, since I find Su's definition of "player skill" to be way too limited. She means physical skill shouldn't be involved, but mental, tactical skills are fine. That's no more fair than physical skill, I think.

It'll be a tough balance.

Yes as physical skill should come into play just as much if the game has any actions directly controllable by the player in real time. Is this an action RPG? It seems that way, so player action skills could be put to good use as well.