Just gonna quote this because it´s pretty much my opinion on the whole topic as well! Except I can´t do words but yeah, everything KoP said
Firstly, It's really not a big deal. People are just discussing it is all. I've looked around a few forums too and been surprised by the civility of the argument going on. The fact that it's a conversation between pretty large camps is a good thing. I understand there are those who're sick of seeing it, but no one's forcing them to get involved. Attitudes towards women in marketing and entertainment haven't been particularly fair for a long time and the conversation is a healthy part of a change in awareness. No need to try and shut it down or avoid it, just let it run it's course.
Regardless of the implied context of the teaser (based on set dressing and suggestion) you'd have to be being deliberately naive to not see why the makers of the video really chose a hot woman in her underwear, on her knees as the key visual of the teaser. Sexy razor-girls in their small-clothes is not necessarily a core theme of cyberpunk, even if it was a significant aspect of the P&P artwork. Obviously the character and the pose deliberately evoke a well known illustration of Alt. Cunningham, itself meant to be titillating, rather than social commentary. It's quite clear the boob-factor played a part from a marketing angle.
Does that automatically make it bad? No! I'm kind of partial to boobs myself. Sexuality is part of being human and nothing to be ashamed of. I also love Cyberpunk and actually do understand the setting. There is a place and context for everything in this world. So that makes it completely fine then? The answer is, not entirely. The truth is times have changed and this kind of thing is beginning to bore and irritate plenty of people. Seductive and/or sexually active women are genuinely not a bad thing in media. The systematic reduction of women as objects of desire though, has actually become a woefully lazy trope and it's use here is a bit disappointing. For people who may have been hoping for something with real teeth. Something daring, belligerent, subversive, something Cyberpunk.
Perhaps those who're totally fine with it can try and understand there are some people who genuinely believe this reductive approach is a bit of a problem. Rather than telling them to piss off and play another game.
Regardless of the implied context of the teaser (based on set dressing and suggestion) you'd have to be being deliberately naive to not see why the makers of the video really chose a hot woman in her underwear, on her knees as the key visual of the teaser. Sexy razor-girls in their small-clothes is not necessarily a core theme of cyberpunk, even if it was a significant aspect of the P&P artwork. Obviously the character and the pose deliberately evoke a well known illustration of Alt. Cunningham, itself meant to be titillating, rather than social commentary. It's quite clear the boob-factor played a part from a marketing angle.
Does that automatically make it bad? No! I'm kind of partial to boobs myself. Sexuality is part of being human and nothing to be ashamed of. I also love Cyberpunk and actually do understand the setting. There is a place and context for everything in this world. So that makes it completely fine then? The answer is, not entirely. The truth is times have changed and this kind of thing is beginning to bore and irritate plenty of people. Seductive and/or sexually active women are genuinely not a bad thing in media. The systematic reduction of women as objects of desire though, has actually become a woefully lazy trope and it's use here is a bit disappointing. For people who may have been hoping for something with real teeth. Something daring, belligerent, subversive, something Cyberpunk.
Perhaps those who're totally fine with it can try and understand there are some people who genuinely believe this reductive approach is a bit of a problem. Rather than telling them to piss off and play another game.
i agree with what a few others are saying here, i'm fine with a mature setting, and i'm fine with things being sexualized, but if you're going to do it? do it whole hog.
if there are girls in tiny bits of clothing and sexualized? then do it to guys too.
it would be a good storytelling tool to display the "downfall of rome" like setting that cyberpunk is all about, as people said earlier, beauty is cheap and plastic, but people are rotten inside, go with that, and run with it.
but next time? how about some indication that its not a game "just for guys" please?
if there are girls in tiny bits of clothing and sexualized? then do it to guys too.
it would be a good storytelling tool to display the "downfall of rome" like setting that cyberpunk is all about, as people said earlier, beauty is cheap and plastic, but people are rotten inside, go with that, and run with it.
but next time? how about some indication that its not a game "just for guys" please?
around 95%+ of the players that play this game will be male...
So don't bother wasting resources on that shit, over 50% of the girls that actually play games don't give two flying fucks about what they even play
Careful with the assumptions here, as there's a good chance you're wrong on both counts.
Wow. What a genuinely repulsive and ignorant thing to say.
Personally, I think they should do whatever they want and embrace the "oversexualization" charge when it inevitably comes. Controversy is great publicity—especially when certain puritanical news stations pick up the story and run with it. As for gamers themselves, I'm sure both genders are capable of accepting just about anything so long as it makes sense in the context of the story and isn't shoehorned in for shock value.
Tempers, tempers. No one needs to make enemies - not like they have cred of yours, is it?
The sexualization controversy will happen, sure. I, too,hope they put males in the same skimpy gear as the females, when contextually appropriate. It sure is in the setting. Rent boys and rent girls, gang.
I also hope there is an indication of the ugly side of this kind of thing, something the Witcher never made really clear to me. Drug addiction, desperation, fear, disgust. A side story involving your character dealing with that - or even experiencing it - is well within this genre's boundaries.
Dark. future.
The sexualization controversy will happen, sure. I, too,hope they put males in the same skimpy gear as the females, when contextually appropriate. It sure is in the setting. Rent boys and rent girls, gang.
I also hope there is an indication of the ugly side of this kind of thing, something the Witcher never made really clear to me. Drug addiction, desperation, fear, disgust. A side story involving your character dealing with that - or even experiencing it - is well within this genre's boundaries.
Dark. future.
I'd rather want games to make sexuality/relationships an issue so there's some progress, for example against movies and other games where they are somewhat competing against.
I think there's a point about sex in this context that many have missed, mostly due to misunderstanding. In the world of Cyberpunk, sex could be a lot of things, but for many, it was the only way to get a little human intimacy in a world where technology is almost everything. The food is engineered, the drugs are engineered, the bodies are engineered, even the personalities are engineered, but for a few short minutes, there can be a return to something basic and primal and it can be a shared experience. It's the last bit of nature in an artificial world.
Exactly how I feel about it. If oversexualization is part of the setting (which it is), then it should apply to both men and women. All I am asking for is consistency.
You said everything what I wanted to. I have seen a lot of female gamers, even if the demograph consists of mostly guys, that is very stupid thing to say.
And btw Renax111 did you know out of all the mods here, only Tommy is 'the' guy and the rest are female gamers?
It's Cyberpunk.
No one gives a shit about our world's social mores, as Cyberpunk's world is going at a rapid pace, leaving old ones behind.
Yeah, she is sexy. So is a lot of things in Cyberpunk, and they wouldn't give a damn about how one sits, or what they wear, or do. Except maybe what music you listen to.
The body is an object, and it can be changed.
You need that mindset in Cyberpunk, to bring about some of that dystopia, and apathy to the human condition, prevalent in that world's setting.
No one gives a shit about our world's social mores, as Cyberpunk's world is going at a rapid pace, leaving old ones behind.
Yeah, she is sexy. So is a lot of things in Cyberpunk, and they wouldn't give a damn about how one sits, or what they wear, or do. Except maybe what music you listen to.
The body is an object, and it can be changed.
You need that mindset in Cyberpunk, to bring about some of that dystopia, and apathy to the human condition, prevalent in that world's setting.
Ive been reading pretty much the same commentary on other forums, and these people all have the same problem, maybe do some research on the setting, this is completely applicable to the setting.
I can see why people may complain about other games and gratuitous nudity, scantily clad women or over enhanced women, but it doesnt apply here, alot of this is typical knee jerk reaction, i think there have been some excellent replies explaining this in the thread, but its as simple as just read the background to the game and how this isnt foreign to the game setting.
I can see why people may complain about other games and gratuitous nudity, scantily clad women or over enhanced women, but it doesnt apply here, alot of this is typical knee jerk reaction, i think there have been some excellent replies explaining this in the thread, but its as simple as just read the background to the game and how this isnt foreign to the game setting.
It's also a proven fact that 97.14% of statistics on the internet are completely made up.
I genuinely don't want to get in an argument here, because I honestly don't think this one is a serious culprit; as opposed to Agent 47 killing nuns which was actually kind of offensive. But it does strike me that a lot of the people arguing for the trailer might be missing the point a bit as well. Most comments I've seen are really just about the teaser itself, rather than sexual content in general. Sex, decadence and even objectification – an apathetic attitude towards the self – are definitely strong themes in Cyberpunk. They have a place in the universe and in any narrative set there.
Yet the teaser is here in the real world and is a marketing tool created to begin building hype for a game. It doesn't exist in a cultural vacum where only elements of the Cyberpunk setting apply.
Put it this way: I enjoyed the trailer. But I'm a guy and it was meant for me. I'm perfectly aware what I liked about it. Central to that was a hot woman in a suggestive pose in a crazy situation. There was other stuff, but since bullet-time does nothing for me, I'm self-aware enough to admit it was mainly that. The only things about it I thought were actually 'good' though, or in any way sophisticated, were the environmental aspects. All I'm saying is let's not pretend this was something other than what it was. A very stylish but slightly one-note teaser targeting the male gaze. I can definitely empathise with those who are disappointed by that.
It's Cyberpunk and it's gonna be set in 2077, but people are looking at it from 2013 perspective.
Do some research on the setting and how sex is treated in Cyberpunk. It's not even an issue of morality there. It's a commodity. People are obsessed with their bodies and are upgrading and augmenting them not only to have cyber-arms so they can squeeze their watermelons, they adjust their skin and looks so they look hot, just like celebrities do.
I am against CDPR having to bend before any politically correct hipster group; political correctness and "living on the edge" shouldn't be in the same game.
Do some research on the setting and how sex is treated in Cyberpunk. It's not even an issue of morality there. It's a commodity. People are obsessed with their bodies and are upgrading and augmenting them not only to have cyber-arms so they can squeeze their watermelons, they adjust their skin and looks so they look hot, just like celebrities do.
I am against CDPR having to bend before any politically correct hipster group; political correctness and "living on the edge" shouldn't be in the same game.
I agree. If you look at something like the new Deus Ex game as well, it's basically this.
Sex as a commodity is not exactly a morality issue now either when you get down to it. Sex is all about selling and selling makes the most of it.
But I think there is a lot more than just sex going on here, its also about how danger and chaos are pervasive in everything Cyberpunk, taking the image of something beutifull and making it terriffying is what its really about.
Still kind of amusing how these sort of topics spring up amongst so much death and violence, wich garners little more than some shrugged shoulders.