Participating in The Game Development (Collaboration Platform)?

[wisdom000]

I think you mis-read the post.

I am not proclaiming anyone anything, I just said that the temptation to leak such a hyped would be too high to actually risk a closed beta or anything. Maybe if you read 2-3 posts above mine you'll get the context

Crap... I am an idiot... my apologies...

 

[Yngh]

I think that most of us simply lack qualifications to provide anything else than suggestions or ideas. Even when modding tools are available for a given game, only a small part of the community creates mods - the rest only plays them. Also, the players often really have no idea what fits and what doesn't fit a given game. This is ok, because not everyone has to be a modder or a game designer. The devs create a game for us and they should definitely listen to the feedback that fans are giving them, but the players should not be doing the job the devs are supposed to do. Even in the Kickstarter projects the backers don't have absolute power or sth - that's because they are not making the game.

That being said, I think that the devs should give us a good editor when the game is released. Mods greatly increase the game's replayability and longevity.

 

[TheCybersmily]

And what of the concept of open source? Not saying that the game should go that way, but there are applications where a community of developers contribute to the applicatoin. Or provide plugins to enhance the application. True that most players don't have the skills to develop or enhance the game, but if there was a mod tool and CDPR puts out a call "We need this apartment building fleshed out. Here's your limitations 3 floors are gang terriorities, there can be one ripperdoc set up shop here. you can have 3-4 solos, rest are wage slaves."
The community can do some shlep work, that the dev guys can farm off. Since some ppl in this thread would do it for free, that makes even cheaper than off shoring it to India/China.
I don't think this will be done during the development of the game, but definitely something afterwards.

 

[GuyNwah]

And what of the concept of open source? Not saying that the game should go that way, but there are applications where a community of developers contribute to the applicatoin. Or provide plugins to enhance the application. True that most players don't have the skills to develop or enhance the game, but if there was a mod tool and CDPR puts out a call "We need this apartment building fleshed out. Here's your limitations 3 floors are gang terriorities, there can be one ripperdoc set up shop here. you can have 3-4 solos, rest are wage slaves."
The community can do some shlep work, that the dev guys can farm off. Since some ppl in this thread would do it for free, that makes even cheaper than off shoring it to India/China.
I don't think this will be done during the development of the game, but definitely something afterwards.

This game and the development house producing it are nothing to do with a community open source project. I hope nobody in a position of responsibility even thinks of attempting anything so chaotic as this.

The only time large collaborative open source projects work is when somebody keeps the project on a damn short leash and everybody contributing to the project does so because they have real money at stake in the use of the things the project produces.

Kicking around ideas on a forum that the owner of the game is free to use, change, disregard, or do the exact opposite is one thing; attempting to impose them on the game by pretending you can be co-developer is something entirely different. Skills or lack thereof don't enter into that consideration. If you're in the project, it's to make good a single cohesive vision of the game. If you're in the project to create your pet adventure, you don't belong there.

 

[TheCybersmily]

um, did you read my second sentence "Not saying that the game should go that way." My position is some people can help contirbute some content to expand the world. I mentioned nothing of modifyng game mechanics nor the creation of scenarios/quests/missions. I neglected to metnion how to implement this full. There should be an approval process from the CDPR team, thus giving them the control over the direction they want to go with the game. By bringing in the others can spark other ideas. These forums are another form of this. We are providing ideas about everything. Soundtracks, roles, point of view of play, easter eggs, quite few others, all of which is free feedback.

 

[GuyNwah]

If you really want to participate in actual development of the game, good advice was already given. Send your resume in and be prepared to move to Warsaw so you can work face to face with the team.

The forums are for ideas that the developers can choose to use, modify, reject, or ignore. Unless they come out with a closed beta program like they have for REDKit, I think that is the limit of fan input, and that is as it should be. It is of the utmost importance that all of the developers on a commercial software project of any kind be professional and be in a master-servant relationship with the directors. Amateurs, volunteers, and other casual participants have no business on such a team.

 

[garothmaster]

If you really want to participate in actual development of the game, good advice was already given. Send your resume in and be prepared to move to Warsaw so you can work face to face with the team.

The forums are for ideas that the developers can choose to use, modify, reject, or ignore. Unless they come out with a closed beta program like they have for REDKit, I think that is the limit of fan input, and that is as it should be. It is of the utmost importance that all of the developers on a commercial software project of any kind be professional and be in a master-servant relationship with the directors. Amateurs, volunteers, and other casual participants have no business on such a team.

I do not agree at all. The time span of this project is around another 2 years.
It is sufficient time to train most amateur volunteer to be productive in any controlled platform.
Training is an investment but everything else is today so try to think long term.
Don't defend the current business model since it is not most effective which can be seen from the current market products themself.
I just have faith in the Cyberpunk community members and their potential that can be utilised in professional manner.

 

[Garrison72]

I'm sorry, but this is way overdue:

View attachment 581


CDPR is not going to work with fans to create this project. It won't happen. At all. There is ZERO chance of them saying to total strangers, "hey guys! just send us some shit and we'll see if we can shoehorn it into the game. Thanks!"

I can't believe people are entertaining this idea.

 

[TheCybersmily]

If you really want to participate in actual development of the game, good advice was already given. Send your resume in and be prepared to move to Warsaw so you can work face to face with the team.

Some people can't take the option. Not everyone who would love to be part of this project can up and move out. I know I can't with a wife, a mortgage, and an againg mother who only has 2 family members to rely on. I'm sure there are others who can't pick up their life and move. But given the chance to contribute something I would give up some time on the weekend.

The forums are for ideas that the developers can choose to use, modify, reject, or ignore. Unless they come out with a closed beta program like they have for REDKit, I think that is the limit of fan input, and that is as it should be. It is of the utmost importance that all of the developers on a commercial software project of any kind be professional and be in a master-servant relationship with the directors. Amateurs, volunteers, and other casual participants have no business on such a team.

You haven't worked with software professionals much. They ain't all "professionals" and they ain't all experts in their fields.
So you say non-professionals have no place working on a project? Quite a few games started off as amateurs, volunteers, and casual programmers hacking away something. Master-servant relationship with software project isn't always the best framework for development. It is one way of doing things but there are others.

I'm sorry, but this is way overdue:
CDPR is not going to work with fans to create this project. It won't happen. At all. There is ZERO chance of them saying to total strangers, "hey guys! just send us some shit and we'll see if we can shoehorn it into the game. Thanks!"

I can't believe people are entertaining this idea.

What's wrong with a discussion about this? It is this thinking outside the box? Throwing out ideas, discussing them, seeing what sticks and what doesn't?
You might think this is a waste of time of a discussion, but I find it interesting one. Hell if you don't like this, then don't read the thread. Everyone has their opinion.

 

[GuyNwah]

I've been a professional and worked with professionals for more than thirty years.

Amateurs who bring their own agendas to a commercial software project have no business on the project. Never have. Never will. It's nothing to do with software in particular. It's as if you walked into an artist's studio and told him you were going to paint on his canvases because you have ideas that he wouldn't be able to execute otherwise. It's that bloody ridiculous.

Either you're answerable to the development managers, you're a paying customer big enough that the sales force will cater to you, or you're on the outside kibitzing.

 

[Sardukhar]

Ye-ah. Only thing is, these "amateurs" as you so charmingly describe them, are also the fans and purchasers of the product. Paying attention to their input is wise. Seasoning that input with your own skills and perspectives is, of course, essential. Discounting that input because it comes from someone who hasn't taken money to do the job, is unwise. Much of my business feedback comes from "amateurs" who are also my customer base.

I rely on them to even -have- a job.

Heh. I said "input."

 

[Garrison72]

Ye-ah. Only thing is, these "amateurs" as you so charmingly describe them, are also the fans and purchasers of the product. Paying attention to their input is wise. Seasoning that input with your own skills and perspectives is, of course, essential. Discounting that input because it comes from someone who hasn't taken money to do the job, is unwise. Much of my business feedback comes from "amateurs" who are also my customer base.

I rely on them to even -have- a job.

Heh. I said "input."

It's not our game, it's theirs. Of course they have to consider what we'd like, but the priority is what they like. There is this: TW1 came with fan made mod adventures packaged in the EE. Very cool, they didn't have to do that. We'll be getting more of those for TW2. So maybe after CP 2077 has released, they can take fan adventures and bundle them with an enhanced edition. But there's no way at this stage I could ever see a developer making this an open source project.

 

[Aditya]

Apart from getting hired by CDP, I hope they ask for community feedback like they did before in the form of polls, surveys and stuff. The forum threads are cool, they are reading all what we write here, but I think you meant a more organized feedback.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yeah, the extent of collaboration I could see would be feeding ideas and testing game mechanics as alpha or beta testers. They might also throw their current ideas out into the wild - which they have done - and then watch our feedback, see what we thought.

 

[wisdom000]

With a property like this, it would be almost foolish NOT to listen to the fans. This isn't the Witcher, where everything you needed to know was laid out in one book, one man's vision.

This is a roleplaying game... it is the vision of dozens of writers, across dozens of books, and thousands of players and game masters.

CDPR may be putting out the game, and collecting the profits, but the game does NOT belong to them, it belongs to all of us, the fans who have kept the flame burning on a franchise that would otherwise have been completely forgotten about years ago.

How many Tabletop RPG's have you ever heard of that get video games, or any new media support a5 years after their last successful product was released? To take the stance that the fans should have no voice whatsoever, is not only foolhardy, but arrogant.

Thankfully CDPR understands this, as proof that they have already entertained the idea of including ideas put forth on this forum and the blog about the game.... notably, Mike as a voice actor in the game.

There is more than just the success and profit of a video game on the line here. There is the possibility of a re-invigoration of the entire tabletop franchise. And if you don't think the fans are going to be very vocal about their hopes, their expectations, and their fears, end expect those voices to be heard, then I don't know what to tell you. As I said, so far it seems CDPR fully appreciates and supports this. No one is asking for open source.... only that we are allowed some input, no matter how minor...

 

[dragonbird]

I don't think that there's any dispute over whether or not CDPR will be listening to their fans - they've already made that clear.

But there is a big difference between soliciting feedback now and the type of involvement that some people have been suggesting in this thread. The key thing here is that it's CDPR who get to decide whether, when, and how the fans are involved. I'm pretty sure most of you are aware of that, but it's maybe worth repeating.

It's also maybe worth reminding people that when CDPR got so much negative feedback for Geralt's New Face on TW2 it was probably a big PITA to change it at last minute, after promo material had already been released. Getting user input early can be helpful - it isn't always an overhead in time and costs.

 

[GuyNwah]

CDPR may be putting out the game, and collecting the profits, but the game does NOT belong to them, it belongs to all of us, the fans who have kept the flame burning on a franchise that would otherwise have been completely forgotten about years ago.

You lost me there. Of course the IP belongs to them so far as they have licensed it and to nobody else except the licensors. They are putting up the money for the IP, paying the developers, taking all the risks. In a world where things are made for you because someone risks their time and money to make things you enjoy, that's ownership.

You may enjoy the game. You may be dedicated to it. You may contribute wonderful ideas to it. But you should not confuse that with believing you have any right to tell the developers that you must participate in building it. That's preposterous.

 

[wisdom000]

I don't think that there's any dispute over whether or not CDPR will be listening to their fans - they've already made that clear.

But there is a big difference between soliciting feedback now and the type of involvement that some people have been suggesting in this thread. The key thing here is that it's CDPR who get to decide whether, when, and how the fans are involved. I'm pretty sure most of you are aware of that, but it's maybe worth repeating.

It's also maybe worth reminding people that when CDPR got so much negative feedback for Geralt's New Face on TW2 it was probably a big PITA to change it at last minute, after promo material had already been released. Getting user input early can be helpful - it isn't always an overhead in time and costs.

Oh of course...

Agreed on all points... I merely took umbrage with the somewhat snarky post that seemed to imply that fan concerns don't matter.

I sent an e-mail to the application pretty much the day the game was announced... never heard back, but that's not surprising, I am in the states and have no published credentials, and can't program to save my life...

But I was extremely happy to see CDPR's open call for applications, and that knowledge of the game is a plus.

It makes me feel like the game is in good hands.

 

[MasticatorDeelux]

Yes. A thousand times yes.

 

[TheCybersmily]

You may be dedicated to it. You may contribute wonderful ideas to it. But you should not confuse that with believing you have any right to tell the developers that you must participate in building it. That's preposterous.

As far as I can tell no one in this thread, especially me, said fans have the "right" to be involved. To me this as been about "what ifs?" I think you are misunderstanding my view point. I think it would be nice to have that level of involvement, but since CDPR is a private company they can do whatever the hell they want. Hell the could use Barbiepunk graphics. As you say it's their IP. but to arbitrary throw off fans as simple amateurs is nonsense. You yourself are a 30 year old veteran, are you saying you wouldn't be professional in a voluntary role? I really don't understand the animosity to this concept.