Oh boy, where do I start?
I suggest trying to play Ogroids before slamming them as OP. My experience (admittedly very limited) is that they are nowhere near as much fun as I expected (much more RNG than I would have thought) and they are significantly less powerful.
What I observed (which I believe will prove generally true) is the following.
- King Chrum is awkward and binary. If Chrum is heatwaved, Ogroid decks struggle to win more than one round. And while it is easy to trigger resilience, it is not easy to do so at convenient times. For example, Chrum does not get resilience if it is the only card played round two. Resilience is meaningless in round three. And in round one it can be purified unless it is the last card played. But systematically targeting 10+ power cards with damage pings often blocks last minute plays of Chrum.
Here, I guess. I'll take a 20-point resilient card, which "awkwardly" requires a 10-point unit to exist on the board, of which I have about 8 in my deck (plus leader), just about any day of the week. I'll even somehow deal with the mindboggling strategic significance of resilience being meaningless in round 3 and just settle for those 20 points of point slam. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
- Enraged Cyclops are NOT the automatic 10 for 4 that is often quoted. If they are not drawn for round one (about a 50% chance for each), they don’t immediately go to 10. If they don’t immediately jump to 10, they are often locked or removed. Even if they remain on board to jump to ten, by the time they do so, the contribution to cards like Riptide, Tugo, and Ice Trolls that need ongoing Might is limited.
I would say for a 4p card, not drawing it in R1 as a restriction preventing it to go to 10 immediately is so minor that for all intents and purpose it IS an immediate 10 for 4. Not only it is that, it is also de facto new best friend of the Incubus, enabling it to often play for even more ridiculous value. But if it's such a pain, I'd be open to the fair trade for the excellent, brand new 4p Trapmaker.
- It may be my deck, but I have yet to be able to sustain might long enough to get even average return on provision for Riptide, Tugo, Ice Trolls, or Ogre Warriors. This is also probably very binary as the cards potentially get great value against opponents who can’t produce enough damage to break might.
Lmao, speaking of the 4 points per turn engines. I've seen Tugo do 5
It's like the old Triss Butteflies, except it lands with 10 points of meat! And again, with like 8 10-point pointslam cards, not even counting the engines (or renfri) in the deck keeping Might up is NOT hard.
- Jotunn is a good card in Ogroids — mainly because it is the only Ogroid other than Chrum who is not easily pinged below the 10 point threshold. But he is NOT a straight 15 for eight. If you count the two 7 for 5 required Ice Giants, it 29 for 18 over three cards — an average of 9 2/3 for 6 which is pretty close to the meta cost/provision curve. Given Jotunn’s vulnerability to tall removal / reset, and the inert nature of all three cards, I doubt he will have use outside Ogroids.
That Jotunn won't have value outside of Ogroid is an easy truism that illustrates very little. And yes, Jotunn IS straight 15 for 8 in the same way Equinox was 12 for 5 last season. Having to include two bad cards in the deck for it does not take away from its value, especially since those ice giants also contribute to King Chrum's base power by being there AND can enable Might in a pinch, with leader's help.
- With virtually no control, Ogroids a vulnerable to a multitude of greedier decks. Substituting control cards for Ogroids quickly reduces the pointslam value.
Obviously, it's not "virtually no control" when you have 2 cyclops and Lord Riptide in the deck full of tall units. The control reach here is QUITE good actually.
- Ogroids in general are awkward to play. The cards are usually strongly tied to particular rounds — there is little flexibility between set up and payoff cards. And, contrary to my previous experience with MO pointslam decks, the card Order within rounds is both rigid and awkward. For instance, you want to play engines (Nekkers, Ice Trolls, Tugo) early. But you also want Enraged Cyclops early. And you need to create and sustain Might early. You want Lord Riptide in hand through all rounds to maximize his value, but you probably won’t play him til round three. Meanwhile, payoff cards like Witches Sabbath and Meteor Shower are complete bricks before round three. And finally, Might is somewhat antisynergistic with Sabbath and with Meteor Shower. I can’t claim Ogroids are unplayable, but I have not found a way yet to make them so.
I feel really bad for everyone playing those awkward Ogroids on the ladder. So many people are out there, challenging themselves. I mean, I've barely even seen NG these last couple of days.
Let me add a couple of comments that I consider opinion about the nature of the game. At this point, they are probably moot — there is no way to consistently “correct” issues related to them without breaking balance.
- I don’t believe a 10 for 4 bronze breaks Gwent. Bronze cards in general play for too little relative to golds — and that makes the game draw-binary. What is broken is 10 for 4 cards that are replayed 7 times, or that are played multiple times per turn.
No, 10 for 4 don't break gwent. Mahakam guards have been around for a while. The difference is, enraged cyclops are too easy to cash in. Still, they aren't really the problem. 20-point BASE STRENGTH resilient units are the problem. 10-point base strength Triss Butterflies are the problem. 8-10 units in deck playing for over 10+ points of pointslam is the problem. Because pointslam is too easy, even with the " very awkward" Might.
- I don’t believe 4 point per turn engines (e.g. Sticky Situation) are ever acceptable. When engines generate more value than playing cards can generate, the game breaks. And four point per turn engines do that too easily. Essentially uninteractive engines are even worse. I haven’t tried to play Sticky Situation to know whether it’s limitations give it too little average value to be usable by good players — it doesn’t really matter to my assessment of the card. It is either OP or it is unacceptably binary. In fairness, I think Chrum is equally binary. But he is absolutely tied to the Ogroid archetype while Sticky Situation stands alone in any deck willing to spare the provisions.
Lmao, somehow Sticky Situation is as bad as Chrum! Wow. I must be really bad, because I just can't make it work. Not that it's awkward like those Ogroids, with its R1-only limit, small-unit-only-trigger and having to have units on both sides to get value. I'm just bad.
