PC mouse and keyboard controls

[DBag]

No, it does not mean that the gamepad was the first priority. All it means is that mouse and keyboard input require more development. Reading anything more in and then claiming what you read in is evidence of dishonesty is no way to make an argument.

Given the circumstances and a small dose of speculation, I think it's fairly safe to make that assumption. We've already passed 2 release dates, and what we can now see is that gamepad input is ready, while M+K is not. And this shouldn't really come as a surprise, as it is understandable from a business POV - the console market is much bigger. Development priorities are dictated by where the money's at, after all.

I'm not sure it's wise to take what the devs say at face value all the time. Look at how PR talk a la "genre-defining, truly next-gen audio-visual fidelity" turned out so far.

 

[TheDeathRun]

And even if they still had issues with the correct mapping, why not just letting the game journos try it for themselves and ask them for (probably valuable) feedback on it? Seems like marketing prevailed over honesty and transparency once again... :/

That is one of the worst things they could have done. Journalists being journalists, the probability of "on the downside of this fantastic game, it turns out CDPR can't do simple key mappings with their own play testers" showing up on the previews would have been high. The press didn't go for the events to beta test key bindings, and CDPR didn't invite the press to gain valuable feedback on whether F5 is a good button for the quicksave.

I'm sure you'll now proceed to stand by your point that marketing prevailed over transparency and honesty. You'd be absolutely right. But there's a time and place for being transparent about what you haven't accomplished, and major press events are not it.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

That is one of the worst things they could have done. Journalists being journalists, the probability of "on the downside of this fantastic game, it turns out CDPR can't do simple key mappings with their own play testers" showing up on the previews would have been high. The press didn't go for the events to beta test key bindings, and CDPR didn't invite the press to gain valuable feedback on whether F5 is a good button for the quicksave.

I'm sure you'll now proceed to stand by your point that marketing prevailed over transparency and honesty. You'd be absolutely right. But there's a time and place for being transparent about what you haven't accomplished, and major press events are not it.

Most PC games journos didn't even care about the issues with the M/K controls in the final version of DAI...

And:

[...]
Do have a sense of what’s preferred? Do you guys prefer playing with a controller?

No, I personally prefer playing with a mouse and keyboard myself. We’re constantly switching around things, you know, optimizing things. With the controllers we’re pretty much there. There might be some minor tweaks happening after these events according to the feedback we’re getting, but the PC controls, being the keyboard and mouse, you have so many more buttons. There’s so much more variety of what you can do, and we still haven’t found our optimal way. So, we’re still working on that. But we’re fairly confident in that, because most of the people in our company are actually PC gamers themselves, so there’s a personal interest.
[...]

Quote: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-3-level-designer-on-the-delay-pc-controls-and-world-building-2/

Actually feedback on the controller setup/controls is important to them...

 

[TheDeathRun]

Most PC games journos didn't even care about the issues with the M/K controls in the final version of DAI...

Actually feedback on the controller setup/controls is important to them...

Of course it's important. I was referring only to your suggestion in any earlier post that seemed to indicate CDPR should allow the press to play with M/K - since the press could simply rebind the keys.

 

[dragonbird]

So, I was wondering if anyone had a problem with the M+K controls in the last game.

There was definitely some problem relating to the QTE's, which affected both low-end systems, and certain systems that used custom gaming drivers for the mouse or keyboard - I saw a noticeable deterioration after buying a Razer keyboard. But it was specific to QTE's, the problems in early versions on normal gameplay were fixed on later releases.

 

[Nilhilion]

@Scholdarr

Thank you good Sir for that interview quote. You made me somewhat reassured it will be done properly. Still, showing REDs it's an important issue couldn't hurt.

 

[archaven.84]

If i can remap all the 4 signs to my 6 button mouse with rebindable keyboards keys then i'll be happy enough. that slowmo radial is obvious for consoles. and that was forced to PC gamers in Witcher 2 because game was designed for consoles.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

If i can remap all the 4 signs to my 6 button mouse with rebindable keyboards keys then i'll be happy enough. that slowmo radial is obvious for consoles. and that was forced to PC gamers in Witcher 2 because game was designed for consoles.

Witcher 2 wasn't designed for consoles. It was made with controllers in mind though.

 

[freakie1one]

There was one other issue I had in TW2 with M+K controls. I disliked using the radial menu to switch between signs so I'd bind the different signs to number keys. However, sometimes when I'd press a key to select the sign I wanted cast it either wouldn't switch or wouldn't allow me to cast the sign until also pressing the "cast sign" button. Other times it would not only select the sign but also cast the sign when pressing the appropriate number key it was bound to. I never knew which was going to occur when selecting signs so I'd sometimes die because of it.

 

[damascus57]

Anyone know if the Witcher 3 will use the default hardware mouse? I had a lot of lag with the witcher 2 with their software 'accelerated' mouse, witcher 1 was much more responsive.

 

[caruga]

I hope they don't feature that Witcher 2 bug where the dialog options get 'stuck' as highlighted and if you click your mouse on another one, the highlighted option gets selected instead of the one under your mouse. Or how scrolling through the entries in the journal by dragging the slider marks every single entry you scroll past as 'read', instead of requiring you to click on it first. It was definitely designed with controllers foremost in mind. Or how the mouse pointer ignores system settings and if the dpi is low enough, it moves really slowly unless you edit the ini files. I think even though CDProjekt got their start on PC, it was just a foothold, Witcher 2 had all the earmarks of a bad PC port even though it wasn't one.

 

[Garrison72]

I hope they don't feature that Witcher 2 bug where the dialog options get 'stuck' as highlighted and if you click your mouse on another one, the highlighted option gets selected instead of the one under your mouse. .

This was like Chinese water torture. I'll have a conniption if they don't feature better mouse pointer support this time.

 

[ChiefWhiteHalfoat]

I wouldn't worry too much. TW2 was pretty solid on this matter - I just don't like the 'Power wheel' but it's not something that would spoil the fun.
I had an idea about steering the horse, consider this:
We've experienced horse riding numerous times in video games, and in most cases it works in the same way (with assassins creed being the primary example, and an obvious comparison): We use mouse to look around, and WSAD to change direction. This isn't very convenient, nor very precise, and sure as hell doesn't look good. The horse makes 45 deg. turns and it rides like a rubber duck.
Don't you think it would be good idea to swap the steering? You would turn using the mouse (this would provide more flexible angle of turns), and look around using A & D (like in some car games, e.g. GRID [if I remember well]).
For me the wooden mechanics of horse riding in Skyrim and AC is a real immersion breaker, and judging by the size of the world, we're gonna spend a lot of time ridding Płotka (I'm not very keen on fast-travel, but I understand it's implementation was rather inarguable).
That was my thought for today, what do you think?

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I wouldn't worry too much. TW2 was pretty solid on this matter - I just don't like the 'Power wheel' but it's not something that would spoil the fun.
I had an idea about steering the horse, consider this:
We've experienced horse riding numerous times in video games, and in most cases it works in the same way (with assassins creed being the primary example, and an obvious comparison): We use mouse to look around, and WSAD to change direction. This isn't very convenient, nor very precise, and sure as hell doesn't look good. The horse makes 45 deg. turns and it rides like a rubber duck.
Don't you think it would be good idea to swap the steering? You would turn using the mouse (this would provide more flexible angle of turns), and look around using A & D (like in some car games, e.g. GRID [if I remember well]).
For me the wooden mechanics of horse riding in Skyrim and AC is a real immersion breaker, and judging by the size of the world, we're gonna spend a lot of time ridding Płotka (I'm not very keen on fast-travel, but I understand it's implementation was rather inarguable).
That was my thought for today, what do you think?

Actually, at release, the mouse+keyboard controls were not really solid....

And I like my WASD controls, no matter if on foot or on horseback. And with a good implementation, a good keyboard and some skill you don't make "45° turns" all the time. I think mouse control is horrible for that kind of thing. And don't forget that we also will be able to fight on horseback, so we need our mouse for free looking and camera control to be able to properly target enemies.

But maybe they'll enable different control schemes for horses? Wouldn't mind but appreciate that.

And the inventory and UI was never made for M/K.

 

[archaven.84]

I basically hated the slow-mo radial menu. It's a gimped experience to me as KBM gamer. I have a xbox360 controller and i only used it when i have no choice (when games are specifically tailored for controllers). I understand why people are OK with 30FPS for the 'cinematic' feel uhh... because of the controller experience. And in my opinion that slow-mo radial menu is specifically designed for controllers.

I have NO intention and will not be using the slow-mo radial menu and i hope CDPR will not forced this sh1t onto me. I hope i can properly remap those actions to my 6 button mouse and keyboard bindings. That's all i only wished for.

 

[huber1989.365]

I basically hated the slow-mo radial menu. It's a gimped experience to me as KBM gamer. I have a xbox360 controller and i only used it when i have no choice (when games are specifically tailored for controllers). I understand why people are OK with 30FPS for the 'cinematic' feel uhh... because of the controller experience. And in my opinion that slow-mo radial menu is specifically designed for controllers.

I have NO intention and will not be using the slow-mo radial menu and i hope CDPR will not forced this sh1t onto me. I hope i can properly remap those actions to my 6 button mouse and keyboard bindings. That's all i only wished for.

Yeah, I'd appreciate the ability to turn the wheel off. Because I do like active pausing in games; not so much to allow for sound decision making but also to enjoy the scenery - which is pretty much impossible with a huge radial menu on the screen.

 

[frivolousam]

Because I do like active pausing in games

I'm waiting impatiently for the day that brings an RPG which is like baldur's gate's real time with pause style but with modern weapons with cover systems and such in a 3D environment. I only saw this system in Jagged Alliance: Back in Action but it's not an RPG and is too rough around the edges(plus too hardcore for my taste). Otherwise they just go turn-based with such games with modern weapons(shadowrun, wasteland 2), maybe turn-based systems are easier to make than real time.

And to make this post not off-topic: I'm sure KB+M controls will be awesome!

 

[ChiefWhiteHalfoat]

Actually, at release, the mouse+keyboard controls were not really solid....

And I like my WASD controls, no matter if on foot or on horseback. And with a good implementation, a good keyboard and some skill you don't make "45° turns" all the time. I think mouse control is horrible for that kind of thing. And don't forget that we also will be able to fight on horseback, so we need our mouse for free looking and camera control to be able to properly target enemies.

But maybe they'll enable different control schemes for horses? Wouldn't mind but appreciate that.

And the inventory and UI was never made for M/K.

What I mean is that directions you can take are divided into 8 options. That's how walking works in Dark Souls, but this is determined by the combat orientation. I think that horse fights will use some sort of auto aim, and that could be merged with mouse-direction control. I don't really see what skills can you acquire to be able to use that kind of steering without making it look 'stiff'.

Were they? I cannot really remember if any changes were made in that matter...

One more thing about the power-wheel - we've got a lot of buttons on our keyboards; let us make a use of them!:victory:

 

[Reverendblue]

Reviving this thread because I just started to look at some of the info coming out pre-pax its its very concerning as a PC gamer.


Looks like we are getting a dumbed down Console Inventory UI now? This is not helping build confidence that this release will be anything more than a console port. I can only hope its not as god awful as Dragon Age Inquisition as far as the UI and the inability to map action keys and use basic Keyboard/Mouse functions us PC gamers have come to expect for the last 20 years. DAI is sill not feature complete as far as using the KB/M lol, you cant even map mouse 3/4 keys etc etc. The reason I bring up DAI is that I was really looking forward to it as I am with the Witcher3. However that game has been a colossal train wreck in my eyes.

Very glad I never pre-ordered W3 as its looking more and more like I wont want to play it unless somehow the modding community can tweak the UI like they did in Skyrim (hello SkyUI !!).

 

[Scholdarr.452]

We have two months before release and CDPR didn't show us any footage of gameplay and the UI with mouse and keyboard although the game is feature complete for a few weeks now.

Is anybody else concerned about this as well? Are we PC gamers kind of second class customers that have to buy the pig in a poke at release after not even getting the "full" collector's edition? We shall preorder, of course, but they haven't shown us anything about PC controls (not even speaking about ultra footage) so far... :/

Preview event for journalists: people were not allowed to play the game with mouse/keyboard.
PAX East: people are not allowed to play the game with mouse/keyboard (or: at all).