Physical Appearance - Character Creation

[wisdom000]

BODY wasn't specified. However, I could see bonuses to ATTRACTIVENESS and COOL from certain types of clothing and body modifications.

I think we interpret the rules differently on the subject... Clothing types might provide a bonus to the skill WARDROBE AND STYLE, or maybe even social... but It doesn't matter how nice the suit you put on Edward James Olmos, ugly is ugly...

And I don't see how clothing would ever give you a cool bonus either... Having really nice shows might be awesome, but they aren't going to make you stand any straighter whern bullets start flying...

 

[wisdom000]

...I can actually answer this one!

For the ones that haven't tanned, they're trying to accentuate their physique. It's this kind of paste they spread on. Roughly has the consistency of peanut butter. Smells FOUL.

So.... she looks like a foot and smells like toe fungus... well, at least she is constistant...

 

[Sardukhar]

Ha! I was going to merge this thread, but it now seems to have an actual, separate focus from the char custom. thread: your physical appearance vs stats.

Martin Berkhan, a lean guy and not a competitive lifter, can dead 600 lb x 4, for a calculate 1 RM of just under 700 lb. That gives him a Body Type of about 8.

A few things: Martin IS NOT a competitive lifter and it's not his focus. He is a strong bastard, as you'll see. Please note the definition. The PnP numbers, always a bit sloppy I thought, should represent not only your Body but also your skill at lifting.

Now we have Andy Bolton:

with a pull of 1008 lbs, about Body 12.

Benedikt Magnusson actually pulled 1015 later, but his video is adwalled. Both men ARE competitive lifters and possibly the strongest men in the world, depending on how you like to measure strength. Different topic.

Point I'm making is that up to about Body 8, you should be fine to take whatever appearance you like. After Body 8, without cyber, yeah, it really really shows.

Also that one of the supplements, ( Wisdom?) had allowing you to improve Body up to 12 or 13 with some strength skill, which seemed fine to me.

The game also does not differentiate between men and women and, again, without cyber, women lack the testosterone to get this strong. One of the few sports they will not be competing on an equal basis with males in the near future, at least not until gene alteration. Although women like Becca Swanson are pioneers, so you never know. Again, a detail the game can't and shouldn't care about.

But, if I was coding it, when your Body gets above 8 without cyber, yeah, I'd add size to you. Gets to 10 or above, that'd be serious size. Muscle means mass.

For the video game, this is probably too much detail. We'd also have to get into how once you get over 250 pounds your stamina goes to crap, it's tough on your knees, hard to wipe your butt because your lats get in the way, etc.

 

[dragonbird]

Um.... how would a tattoo ever have an effect on stats?

And unless we are talking Powered Armor, how would clothes ever effect stats?

Physical appearance having an effect on BOD type at least makes sense, not that I am for the idea... but lets not get goofy here.

What Chris said later, and it's been discussed a few times - tats, clothes, even hairstyle may have an impact on stats relating to how others perceive you. But no, no magical runes allowed, so they wouldn't impact on strength or other physical-related stats.

And I'm a little more comfortable with the suggestions in some of those photos. I just don't want to see bodybuilder types. Grace Jones OK, Arnie not OK.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

...I can actually answer this one!

For the ones that haven't tanned, they're trying to accentuate their physique. It's this kind of paste they spread on. Roughly has the consistency of peanut butter. Smells FOUL.

Ah, like marmite.

I think we interpret the rules differently on the subject... Clothing types might provide a bonus to the skill WARDROBE AND STYLE, or maybe even social... but It doesn't matter how nice the suit you put on Edward James Olmos, ugly is ugly...

And I don't see how clothing would ever give you a cool bonus either... Having really nice shows might be awesome, but they aren't going to make you stand any straighter whern bullets start flying...

I am merely pointing out an observation:

If you look like a badass and you feel like a badass, (because you know you look like a badass,) you are more likely to act like a badass.
If you look like a clown, and you feel like a clown, (because you know you look like a clown,) you are more likely to act like a clown.

Self respect and confidence both hinge on the COOL stat, and not on any skill. Anything that can give you more of a boost to those two feelings therefore should directly affect how well that STAT performs, (thusI chose the term "bonus" rather than "increase", because bonuses are intrinsicly linked to s specific situation. When the situation is no longer in effect, neither is the bonus.)

The same works for attractive clothing, make up and body modifications. If you read the description of Wardrobe & Style it has no bearing on the clothing itself, only the characters personal ability to select suitable and/or fashionsable atire:

Wardrobe & Style:
The skill of knowing the right clothes to wear, when to wear them, and how to look cool even in a spacesuit.
With a Wardrobe of +2 or better, you are good at choosing clothes off the rack.
At +6, your friends ask you for wardrobe tips, and you never buy anything off the rack.
At +8 or better, you are one of those rare people whose personal style influences major fashion trends.

Here is a real life example:

Now, this young lady is not unattractive, but that makeup does wonders. It is not over the top yet it accentuates her natural assets. Look at those eyes. That makeup could be called gaudy, but it's bringing out those piercing eyes.
Now, she did not do her own makeup, (so it would have had nothing to do with W&S in 2020 terms,) but she is more attractive.

 

[wisdom000]

Well, thats the thing... the only stat that is remotely open for "how others see you" is ATTR... because well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... The other stats are all your character, and not your characters perception of themselves, but actual themselves... and clothing and tattoos aren't going to have any impact on stats... Just because you think a tattoo makes you look cool or badass doesn't mean you are going to find anyone who shares that belief. I mean, I sm sure there are people who still think tramp stamps make them look... something other than stupid and skanky...

As I said, clothing might have an impact on certain skills in certain situations... but tattoos... no... not really... The only conceivable way it could is maybe a boost to a sdocial role in situations where you are meeting with people who really prize tattoos, though I don't see that really needing to be regulated as a mechanical issue...

 

[wisdom000]

If you look like a badass and you feel like a badass, (because you know you look like a badass,) you are more likely to act like a badass.
If you look like a clown, and you feel like a clown, (because you know you look like a clown,) you are more likely to act like a clown.

Self respect and confidence both hinge on the COOL stat, and not on any skill. Anything that can give you more of a boost to those two feelings therefore should directly affect how well that STAT performs, (thusI chose the term "bonus" rather than "increase", because bonuses are intrinsicly linked to s specific situation. When the situation is no longer in effect, neither is the bonus.)

Yes its true, your cool can be affected by perception, but there are no concrete deciding factors. A kick ass wide brimmed fedora might make one person feel and look cool, it might make another person feel and look ridiculous, and to another person it's just a hat with no effect whatsoever. A lacy bra may make one chick feel sexy and confident, and another person feel silly and awkward. There is no universal effect for an item of clothing, so there can be no bonus applied., because it can't be applied consistantly.


The same works for attractive clothing, make up and body modifications. If you read the description of Wardrobe & Style it has no bearing on the clothing itself, only the characters personal ability to select suitable and/or fashionsable atire:

Actually, quite a few clothing items do state that they can add a bnus to W&S, because qulity, famous designers, etc... can be recognized by other people, and the Style skill IS all about how you are perceived by others.

Here is a real life example:

Now, this young lady is not unattractive, but that makeup does wonders. It is not over the top yet it accentuates her natural assets. Look at those eyes. That makeup could be called gaudy, but it's bringing out those piercing eyes.
Now, she did not do her own makeup, (so it would have had nothing to do with W&S in 2020 terms,) but she is more attractive.

Except thats a Personal Grooming roll... not wardrobe and style.

Regardless, if someone else did her makeup, then any bonus to attractiveness she hass would be based on the other persons roll... since they could have just as easily messed it up. And like I said, I would concede that Attractiveness IS the only stat subject to mods based on others perceptions... because by it's very nature, it is subjective.

I can almost guarantee you that what I find a 10 is widly varied from what you would find a 10.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Yes its true, your cool can be affected by perception, but there are no concrete deciding factors. A kick ass wide brimmed fedora might make one person feel and look cool, it might make another person feel and look ridiculous, and to another person it's just a hat with no effect whatsoever. A lacy bra may make one chick feel sexy and confident, and another person feel silly and awkward. There is no universal effect for an item of clothing, so there can be no bonus applied., because it can't be applied consistantly.

Actually, quite a few clothing items do state that they can add a bnus to W&S, because qulity, famous designers, etc... can be recognized by other people, and the Style skill IS all about how you are perceived by others.

Except thats a Personal Grooming roll... not wardrobe and style.

Regardless, if someone else did her makeup, then any bonus to attractiveness she hass would be based on the other persons roll... since they could have just as easily messed it up. And like I said, I would concede that Attractiveness IS the only stat subject to mods based on others perceptions... because by it's very nature, it is subjective.

Ah, but surely COOL would be in a similar boat as ATTR? It too can be viewed as highly subjective in exactly the same way. Take body armour. When I worked the door there were a few guys I worked with who refused to wear the stuff because they felt that they would be more inclined to get into fights because they may felt 'safe' with the armour on. Again it comes down to confidence. It's just like the modifiers applied to "Face Downs".

I can almost guarantee you that what I find a 10 is widly varied from what you would find a 10.

You're right, because as far as I am concerned there are no 10's. 9.5's yes, and I have seen one or two 9.9's, but no 10's. If there's no room for improvement, then wheres the fun? Hell, I've been told that if a girl is interested in me then it's an automatic -2 penalty.

 

[Sardukhar]

I find ATTR measures how physically attractive you are..in a purely aesthetic sense. And don't underestimate that!

But there are other values for attraction than how even and well-distributed your features are, of course. The kind of build you have - lean is much more attractive to most people than huge. Your physical grace, REF and MA, is often quite a boost. Humour, from COOL and INT and RP, matter.

Personal preference of course, matters.

That said, even features, right proportions and good health, clear gaze, lovely smile are found to be attractive by nearly every human. Probably every sane human. And those things is what ATTR measures. After that, well, all those other values come into play.

I'd be really surprised if CDPR kept ATTR in-game as 2020 uses it.

 

[kanonite]

"At +8 or better, you are one of those rare people whose personal style influences major fashion trends."

Imagine having 8+ in wardrobe and after a certain amount of rep increase, you can see some NPC's on the streets mimicking your style, or maybe seeing a fashion show whos wardrobe matches your chars style albeit with some alterations.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

"At +8 or better, you are one of those rare people whose personal style influences major fashion trends."

Imagine having 8+ in wardrobe and after a certain amount of rep increase, you can see some NPC's on the streets mimicking your style, or maybe seeing a fashion show whos wardrobe matches your chars style albeit with some alterations.

It's why Swaggy had to die...

 

[kanonite]

It's why Swaggy had to die...

But his blue leopard jacket will forever remain in our minds...

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

But his blue leopard jacket will forever remain in our minds...

Right up until C-SWATs latest protege struts her stuff in tie-dye jump suits.

 

[thewarsend]

But his blue leopard jacket will forever remain in our minds...

I'm hoping we will see that blue jacket in game.. Like in a pawn shop or something.. With +5 for cool and -2 for luck.. (original owner got killed by a cyberpsycho after all)

What happened was, after they transported Swaggy's and other victims bodies to the morgue, morticians assistant liberated some of the items from the corpses, including Swaggy's jacket and sold it to a pawn shop..

 

[braindancer12]

It's why Swaggy had to die...

a legend never dies....

 

[Sardukhar]

I'm hoping we will see that blue jacket in game.. Like in a pawn shop or something.. With +5 for cool and -2 for luck.. (original owner got killed by a cyberpsycho after all)

Clothing adding to stats..magically? No pheremonal enhancement or aluminum fibres or something? I dunno, Wars. Doesn't seem very 'punk to me.

 

[thewarsend]

Clothing adding to stats..magically? No pheremonal enhancement or aluminum fibres or something? I dunno, Wars. Doesn't seem very 'punk to me.

That... was.. a.. joke..

We are talking about Swaggy, a character we basically made up..

 

[Sardukhar]

We are talking about Swaggy, a character we basically made up..

You...you take that back.

RIGHT NOW.

Swaggy had feelings.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

You...you take that back.

RIGHT NOW.

Swaggy had feelings.

HAD being the operative word, COS HE DEAD!

 

[thewarsend]

You...you take that back.

RIGHT NOW.

Swaggy had feelings.

Yes, sorry, of course he did.. Feelings we made up..