Pirate Cove Metadeck - Discussion

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DRK3

Forum veteran
I am sure most players have used, seen or faced this deck by now.

It appeared very recently, im not 100% sure of its origin but i think it was Redrame that popularized it after being very successful with it on the latest open qualifiers, immediately after, pro players were copying it for other tournaments, and then when it was featured on the latest meta reports, it exploded.

I really hate it, but not because its toxic or OP, the usual reasons at least for me, to hate decks.
No, in fact, at first sight, i even thought this deck wasnt that good or hard to beat... Then i lost to it, many times, but i wasnt even sure why - its deceptively strong.
Also, i've had several SY off-meta control decks that actually looked really similar to this, so i wasnt much intimidated by it.

So, why do i hate it? It single-handedly represents half a dozen of the major problems Gwent has been afflicted with for very long:

1. Midrange domination. The pirate cove deck is almost 100% non-committal, it uses Saul which is an overtuned, cheap 3pt per turn (with full purse), which immediately plays outside of removal range, it most likely will require a counter more expensive than the 7pr of Saul. Everything else is immediate value or 2 turn combo but that are high tempo and somewhat hard to counter (location+poison).

2. No identity. Yes, the PC deck is very strong, but is it because of the leader? I dont think so. It could probably do very well with any other SY leader with minor adjustments, but since this was the version in the spotlight, its the one everyone is using.

3. Control domination. This isnt a hyper control deck, but uses the best combination for low risk - bronze pointslam (thinning packages), bronzes with great provision-point ratio (mutant makers, poisons), with gold control tools, with big bodies, but not big enough to be a liability (reminds of you something else? SK warriors)

4. Overbuffs. Dont get me wrong, i like the trend that started this year of buffing unused cards.
However, i believe they should be more careful, and made sure those unused cards are actually weak and deserved a buff.
BOTH the Professor and Boris were cards that i used regularly before the patch this month, on control/bounty, and they were doing really well for me, i really think they werent used only because another SY archetype was OP and players flocked to it (on the last 12 months: HC Passiflora, Congregate and Lined Pockets).

Buffing the Professor and Boris, not just by 1 but by 2 was a big mistake. Same applies to Whoreson Junior, which i warned it would be on every SY deck.
This control trio is underprovisioned, not even SK warriors has something like this (not considering Eist, which is more pointslam than control).

5. Balances always too late, not enough. Do you think these cards will get nerfed on June 8th, with new expansion? Probably not, they need more time to collect data :giveup:
In fact, they will even get further support, just check the bounty cards revealed today, bounty and SY control will dominate the meta, because destroying is always easier than building. So, after 2 months of lined pockets tunnel drilling domination, we are getting 3 more months of similar SY control in the meta.


Yesterday, i think i had my 1st victory against it. By now i know the deck by heart, i played around every single play (boosted outside of 3/4pts of Boris/Professor, but not enough to give value to Whoreson Jr), kept my engines alive with shield and got good value out of em, immediately killed the poison bro that also boosts, purified when he tried to poison me, heatwaved his biggest unit since i had last say.
Meanwhile my opponent did several mistakes, including wasting 3 coins on Jacques... and i won by 1pt! So, without that last mistake on last turn, he would've won.

This could be 6.: when a deck is so strong and simple it carries any player to great winrates (played on casual, but he had pro rank avatar), even when they play poorly, the opponent knows exactly their deck and happens to have a lot of counters for it and its still so close.
 
I hate this deck for 2 reasons:
1. For being a netdeck, and I despise any kind of deck, that is copied and played by masses.
2. It runs Whoreson Junior. I have a special disgust towards this card after the buff in the last patch. It's got out of hand in my opinion.

The best way to learn how to beat any deck is to play it yourself so you can find its weaknesses and disadvantages.

There's no need for that. It's enough to play against it.
This deck runs quite a few cards that require devotion, and it also relies on removal based on 2 conditions - bounty and poison. This means you can play a unit, give it veil, and keep boosting it as higt as you like, and the netdecker will not be able to do a thing (unless they finally figure out how to use Moreelse).
Add some tall removal(s) for Saul/Sea Jackal, some lock to disable Gellert Bleinheim, and your opponent starts regretting copying this netdeck.
Playing Carapace and hiding your valuable units behid veiled defender is probably the easiest (at least for me) way to deal with that deck.
 
Whoresone is a real .. well you him allready by that name.
Met that deck a few times this weekend and can confirm its really strong. I liked to play that kind of Sy decks in the past but haven't got into the game since winter so I missed the crime buff to ever shine again after it was the hottest f*** on release.
I think only Whoreson is the real problem. Sure prof got buffed and boris too, but this is "just" balance. WhS deploy dmg along the fee is just to much on one card. It's not the swing - it's the threat he poses. Anybody remember Helge-meta or the first version of NR-Redanian Archer dmg-engines... or dwaren merc spam...yeah WhS is all of that in one.

My elf deck has a real fighting chance (control/swarm/slam) at Rank5 (haha). One match one win. Coc as last card, highest unit is my Ele'yas. He plays Jacques and I started chanting SPent spent spent spent...he spendet...Coc killed 7p Jacques and his last play was only 25 points so I won 37/34. See, no Problem at all:beer:
Jokes aside. I think it really comes down on Whorson and that:
5. Balances always too late, not enough. Do you think these cards will get nerfed on June 8th, with new expansion? Probably not,
(btw: what a nice quote tool we have here)

No I think somehow Witchfinder will find a spot in that deck and it will go crazeeeey.
 
Curiously, I must've faced this deck six or seven times this week, yet I never lost to it so far. All matches were on casual and my opponents probably made mistakes when playing it, but I've been more annoyed by other decks than this. Of course I'm not saying I'm a competent player, just that it doesn't feel that powerful against the type of decks I enjoy playing.
 
While I'm at it: Hating a netdeck for being a netdeck is hating civilization for being civil. That is just how humans work. In the post internet era information was just slower. Anybody ever played Magic (cardback)? Remember Acadamy? yes boring copycats, no ingenuty but why should i think harder if somebody else just did the work allready. Not everbody has a full collection to try every card. Not everybody has the time to try every deck. Not everybody enjoys the fun of building decks, breeding hours in the deckbuilder, I do, you do perhabs....(yes back in the days I played Magic with myself to optimize my decks. But I was in school, had the time and Intrenet was via modem)
 
While I'm at it: Hating a netdeck for being a netdeck is hating civilization for being civil. That is just how humans work. In the post internet era information was just slower. Anybody ever played Magic (cardback)? Remember Acadamy? yes boring copycats, no ingenuty but why should i think harder if somebody else just did the work allready. Not everbody has a full collection to try every card. Not everybody has the time to try every deck. Not everybody enjoys the fun of building decks, breeding hours in the deckbuilder, I do, you do perhabs....(yes back in the days I played Magic with myself to optimize my decks. But I was in school, had the time and Intrenet was via modem)
Luckily it's not how all humans work, otherwise we would be still sitting in caves and waiting for this single guy to figure out how to make tools to build something better. You can give million reasons why people use netdecks. Everyone knows them already. For me they are not convincing, but that's just my opinion, that I don't expect others to agree with.
 
okay. You're right. What I wanted to say in this rather jibberish rant is: You can't unlearn what you have learned. If the information is outthere it will be used. And if something is perfoming better at something than the previous thing, people will start to use it. Not always and not everybody, but the majority and that is like it is. Untill somebody comes along with an even better solution and then poeple will flock to the new one. That is how human civilization works. I also enjoy it more to play genuin decks against genuine decks. but sometimes I get tired of losing and sometimes I look for ideas at places like this forum or even metareports. The only way to keep it interesting in times of fast spreading information is to have a balanced game where a multitude of decks are viable and every deck has at least one to hardcounter it.
It's still pandemic time after one and a half year. Ironically one (I) can unlearn things - social skills. Have a nice evening and enjoy
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Lets not deviate from the thread's subject. Trust me, i would love to do so and take another chance to bash at netdecking in general, and pull my 'ancient gwent player' status out the bag and how in the old times it was much better, but i wont.

I am not making a hate thread for every tier 1 deck that pops up, that would get old really fast. I, and other users who posted here, have already mentioned this deck doesnt feel toxic, like Kolgrim or Viy, or OP unbeatable, like SK warriors.
My criticisms listed on 1st post came from rational analysis, not emotional response. Yes, i did say i 'hated it', but think of it like a "cold hate", instead of a "raging hot hate" like happens with other netdecks.

A final aspect i failed to mention before, but it's been lightly touched in this discussion:
The 'non-committal' and 'low-risk' aspects i mentioned before, its something that was finally perfected in this deck.
By using 2 sea jackals + jacques, sometimes even a borsodi bro or blenheim bro on R3, you distribute your coins wider than ever, so tall removal is not nearly as effective against this deck as almost all of SY decks, where you had 1 or 2 huge units on R3 like Gord, sir piggy or a boosted seajackal/ jacques to high heavens.

Im only admired it took this long to ditch this M.O., even pro players on opens, who played with such risky tactics. But if you can get the same value by distributing the points, its definitely the smarter thing to do... but a nightmare to anyone facing it and trying to counter it.
 
okay back to topic:
I agree. The biggest strenght of this deck would be it's none commital nature (while beeing strong). There is no card that has to wait for a follow up. No "pass now" like the ball was. Sure people can make mistakes piloting it, but there is no combo to bleed, no chain to break. You can only endure and hope to survive with a good removal kept in hand and wait for WhS.
The perfect Midrange deck is completed by the option to always spen your coins. In the past I played simmiliar decks and you had always the awkward choice of keeping a savety jackal wich is just 4points from hand or risk having unspent coins leftover or putting all coins on one spender. Thats why dmg-spender are that good but usally gets removed after drop. So In my analysis PC is essential to be that "free" of awkwardness.
 
okay back to topic:
I agree. The biggest strenght of this deck would be it's none commital nature (while beeing strong). There is no card that has to wait for a follow up. No "pass now" like the ball was. Sure people can make mistakes piloting it, but there is no combo to bleed, no chain to break. You can only endure and hope to survive with a good removal kept in hand and wait for WhS.
The perfect Midrange deck is completed by the option to always spen your coins. In the past I played simmiliar decks and you had always the awkward choice of keeping a savety jackal wich is just 4points from hand or risk having unspent coins leftover or putting all coins on one spender. Thats why dmg-spender are that good but usally gets removed after drop. So In my analysis PC is essential to be that "free" of awkwardness.
You are a bit wrong reading the deck. The deck is very much dependable on self poisoning to generate coins and points. If you bleed or disable a couple of this cards it would be hard for your opponent to navigate it. And essentially you will need to make no mistakes or misplays. (or at least less and smaller than your opponent)
 
I think you are overreacting a bit. SY Pirate's Cove is a good deck, but nowhere near unbeatable. SY LP before Cleaver/Safecrackers got nerfed was much better. This one is heavily restricted by having to play it on Devotion. And that is a liability which shows, especially against decks such as Arachas Swarm. I played a few games against Arachas Swarm and I can confirm, Pirate's Cove can't beat this deck. SY LP could, because you had Tunnel Drill to counter swarm and Cleaver could swarm a bit too, but this one does not have that kind of removal. It can only punish some tall units with poison or Moreelse's tribute, but that's about it. As soon as you try to out-point it with a Sea Jackal -boom!- get CoC'd or Heatwaved.

In addition to that, it has other inconsistencies. Bricking the thinning cards happens very often. A lack of neutral tutors means that there is a high chance of you not getting your golds in round 3 (happens often). And it is especially difficult to pilot.

It is easy to beat this deck if you don't go tall with your units, but spread point value on multiple units, the way Arachas Swarm or NR Witchers does. Also the Fergus Ball deck is terrifying to playing against it as you need to refrain from using poison on units, other than Abomination and because of the locks, your Sea Jackals/spenders are at risk.

Personally, I think Arachas Swarm is the strongest deck this meta. I don't think Pirate's Cove deserves the top spot in T1. More like T2.
 
To be really honest I faced this deck twice at PRO rank and I always won.
Currently I won with Siege + Pincer Maneuver + Draug Combo.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
@Madlax1992 I never stated this deck is unbeatable, or that it was on the same level as Lined Pockets before nerfs (that deck was even considered tier 0 sometimes).

Its absolutely true it probably struggles against arachas swarm, like many decks do, due to the lack of wide punishment.
And i will say more, arachas swarm will probably be the best deck to face the new SY after PoP, with all their bounties, there probably wont be many decks that do stand a chance against it.

However, your logic is flawed. The arachas deck isnt better than Pirate Cove just because it can beat it, that is not how you evaluate a strength of a deck: you need to consider all of the pool of current competitive decks, and the one with most favoured matchups is the strongest, and that title probably goes to pirate cove metadeck for now.

Also, this deck is so strong because it has almost no weaknesses, the lack of wide punishment is probably the only major one, although that could be fixed with a (overcosted) Tinboy.
 
@Madlax1992 I never stated this deck is unbeatable, or that it was on the same level as Lined Pockets before nerfs (that deck was even considered tier 0 sometimes).

Its absolutely true it probably struggles against arachas swarm, like many decks do, due to the lack of wide punishment.
And i will say more, arachas swarm will probably be the best deck to face the new SY after PoP, with all their bounties, there probably wont be many decks that do stand a chance against it.

However, your logic is flawed. The arachas deck isnt better than Pirate Cove just because it can beat it, that is not how you evaluate a strength of a deck: you need to consider all of the pool of current competitive decks, and the one with most favoured matchups is the strongest, and that title probably goes to pirate cove metadeck for now.

Also, this deck is so strong because it has almost no weaknesses, the lack of wide punishment is probably the only major one, although that could be fixed with a (overcosted) Tinboy.
SY LP was not tier 0, but certainly better than the current Pirate Cove Devotion SY. Its shortcoming was that it relied on 2 cards to be successful. Cleaver and Tunnel Drill. It was more successful against Arachas Swarm, as Cleaver could swarm quite a bit, preventing Arachas Swarm players to get as much value out of Yen, and Tunnel Drill was great at removing the drones.

The Pirate's Cove deck loses against pretty much anything control wise (the Fergus NG for example) and can be outpointed by NR Witchers. Greedy shit like MO Viy and Kelly beats it easily too. I still think it ain't T1 worthy, much less the best deck of the meta.
 
SY LP was not tier 0, but certainly better than the current Pirate Cove Devotion SY. Its shortcoming was that it relied on 2 cards to be successful. Cleaver and Tunnel Drill. It was more successful against Arachas Swarm, as Cleaver could swarm quite a bit, preventing Arachas Swarm players to get as much value out of Yen, and Tunnel Drill was great at removing the drones.

The Pirate's Cove deck loses against pretty much anything control wise (the Fergus NG for example) and can be outpointed by NR Witchers. Greedy shit like MO Viy and Kelly beats it easily too. I still think it ain't T1 worthy, much less the best deck of the meta.
I didnt lose to viy once with cove. I don't know why i keep hearing cove is bad into viy. I'm not sure you can say cove has a bad matchup tbh. Though most of the time i matched viy was with the freakshow version. Killed alot of their consumes with it
 
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I'm not familiar with the decks you use or your personal play style but I think I only lost to this once, maybe twice, on the way to pro rank. Here are my (hopefully helpful) observations:
  • There are only so many ways for them to spend coins, so their leader ability gives them insurance. If you can put on enough pressure to make them use one or both charges early it helps in the long run.
  • Like with most decks, a well timed Heat Wave can really give them a headache.
  • Locks and "tall punish" in moderation can be most helpful. Resets work similarly if they don't have a full pocket, and if something like Bloody Baron is a last play it can provide a massive swing.
  • Add engines with Veil to your deck.
  • Cards with medium raw-points value so most times your stuff is out of range of their 3p removals. Also doesn't give them any real poison targets.
  • The opposite can also be true with factions like ST, SY, NR and NG often able to brute force a snowball into an avalanche.
  • Monsters can also sneakily wrack up a points advantage with Thrive and weather or 2-for-1 Deathwish units.
  • As can strong scenarios like Haunt, Masquerade Ball, and possibly Gedyneith if you play your cards right.
  • Cards/engines that present consistent damage threats help keep them honest, and if they can't take them out you can run away with the round. Good examples are leader cards, Unseen Elder, Crach an Craite, Arnaghad, and impactful "orders" cards.
  • I in no way advocate you play scum bag mill decks but if you really wanna show how much you hate their deck...
  • Spies can block valuable board space on their side if they're playing a lot of units.
  • I have personally only ever seen Roland do anything remotely useful once, where they had both Bleinheims in round 3.
Well, that's about all I can think of just now. If you have any questions or are interested in the decks I used this season feel free to send me a message. And good luck!
 
After playing some more Pirate's Cove I am only getting confirmation that the deck is overrated. Against stuff like Kelly, Viy, Imprisonment NG, Arachas Swarm, even NR Draug or NR Witchers it simply holds no chance. MO Thrive also beats this easily. These decks are far better.

Pirate's Cove is a T2 deck, a lower T2 deck. Not having any tech cards that can tall punish or control your opponent is a huge liability that pretty much spells defeat the moment you play against the decks I mentioned above.

Clearly those who made this T1 and the best T1 deck have not tested it enough. I have played 8 matches against Arachas Swarm with Pirate's Cove and all of them lost big time. NG Ball point slams you to high heaven, not to mention disabling your engines and preventing you from taking advantage of the self-poison package. NR Draug has Baron, who obliterates one of your Jackals as a finishing move.

Pirate's Cove is at most a medium-tier deck. Being the best T1 yet you can't beat T1 and T2 decks that are supposed to be weaker is a travesty.
 
After playing some more Pirate's Cove I am only getting confirmation that the deck is overrated. Against stuff like Kelly, Viy, Imprisonment NG, Arachas Swarm, even NR Draug or NR Witchers it simply holds no chance. MO Thrive also beats this easily. These decks are far better.

Pirate's Cove is a T2 deck, a lower T2 deck. Not having any tech cards that can tall punish or control your opponent is a huge liability that pretty much spells defeat the moment you play against the decks I mentioned above.

Clearly those who made this T1 and the best T1 deck have not tested it enough. I have played 8 matches against Arachas Swarm with Pirate's Cove and all of them lost big time. NG Ball point slams you to high heaven, not to mention disabling your engines and preventing you from taking advantage of the self-poison package. NR Draug has Baron, who obliterates one of your Jackals as a finishing move.

Pirate's Cove is at most a medium-tier deck. Being the best T1 yet you can't beat T1 and T2 decks that are supposed to be weaker is a travesty.
It is weak into kelly and some foltest commando versions but you can win if you tech and draw your techs like kurt and moreelse round 1. If you tech and dont draw them its sad. You can play around kelly with boat just don't pull boat out until they play kelly so it doesnt get squirreled I am considering if the borsodi bros are a bait atm. Vitality and bleed are slow and have cost me some games. Bleed will not proc once the opponent has passed so you might be forced to leader unecessarily while you have a spender on board. I really liked freakshow in the deck but idk how to fit him in with the tech cards. Cove can tech against most of its bad matchups and thats why its still considered to be so strong. If you have freakshow vs viy. It's easy game. Prof and whoreson with also help kill their consumes
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I managed to fit in freakshow and cut the borsodi bros. I beat viy again today by a huge margin, went into round 3 with card advantage and won all the mirrors so far. I am almost completely certain that the borsodi bros are a bait and its safe to say this deck doesn't have a bad matchup. Finally got my sy past 2500mmr. Better and more experienced players should consider it and give it a try.
 
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