Platform Discussion Thread

[Cyberway]

That's probably the biggest reason. If there s anyone that can support the tech and take it to new places it's probably Google and Co. Plus there's a lot more to it than just the streaming part, even now.

They also founded a new games development studio for that very reason.

Can't wait to see what they come up with.

I would say it comes down to this.

“We’re always looking for ways to strengthen the connection between creators and viewers, and Stadia is designed to bring them together like never before,” Ryan Wyatt, YouTube’s head of gaming, said during Google’s announcement at the 2019 Game Developers Conference. Gaming creators are particularly important to YouTube because, collectively, they rake in a 200 million viewers per day, he said. (In 2018, those viewers resulted in a record-setting 50 billion hours of gaming content watched on YouTube)."

From https://www.tubefilter.com/2019/03/19/google-stadia-youtuber-features/

Most gamers just doesnt realize whats happening at Youtube. Good times for BGS, EA and Ubisoft if I see this right.

 

[Sild]

I would say it comes down to this.

“We’re always looking for ways to strengthen the connection between creators and viewers, and Stadia is designed to bring them together like never before,” Ryan Wyatt, YouTube’s head of gaming, said during Google’s announcement at the 2019 Game Developers Conference. Gaming creators are particularly important to YouTube because, collectively, they rake in a 200 million viewers per day, he said. (In 2018, those viewers resulted in a record-setting 50 billion hours of gaming content watched on YouTube)."

From https://www.tubefilter.com/2019/03/19/google-stadia-youtuber-features/

Most gamers just doesnt realize whats happening at Youtube. Good times for BGS, EA and Ubisoft if I see this right.

Yea, believe it or not that's the part I'm least excited about. I mean, I'm cool with seeing what it can bring to YouTube viewers/creators and the vast majority of people that just can't afford a proper PC or console or to buy the games, but what had my attention was what it could do for the games being developed on it.

But we'll probably have to wait more than a couple of years for the results.

And it's not just those companies that are likely to benefit, ANY game with content on YouTube is a potential beneficiary of that side of the tech. As long as they spend the resources to make it compatible with Stadia.

 

[Cyberway]

Im excited to know whats behind those numbers or will gamers just bail out, one thing is for sure gamers has never liked to be at forums, where I like to be. Damn, if you have a kid now its time to teach him/her how to YouTube.

 

[Sild]

Im excited to know whats behind those numbers or will gamers just bail out, one thing is for sure gamers has never liked to be at forums, where I like to be. Damn, if you have a kid now its time to teach him/her how to YouTube.

Yea, YouTube is much more relevant an populated now than ever before, I see your point.

 

[Mevik1023]

Cool idea, but temper your expectations. Despite their promises, Google has not delivered on 4K/60FPS yet (I know because I tried their Project Stream thing).

I'm open to this as an alternative for people who can't afford PCs/consoles, but I'm vehemently against it as a complete replacement for those platforms. Are people really so eager to give up control of the stuff they buy?

Exactly how I feel. More options are never a bad thing, even if you have zero interest in this. But replacing the purchase of actual things with vampire-like subscription models is an option I want the ability to say no to, especially since those methods encourage games I'm not into. A cloud-based console is going to cater to seasonal multiplayer games. It'll cater to patched content and the "buy now, we'll fix it later" philosophy.

I'm a peasant who'd be fine with a games never looking better than God of War or Horizon. But PC players with optimal setups that want to further enhance their experience? Sure thing. I hope Google has something special on their hands. But I don't want gaming to turn into seven Steam competitors vying for a monthly percentage of our paychecks. If traditional consoles are phased out, we'll see less Witcher 3 and more Apex Legends with every new release.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@SigilFey: sure, personally I'm not going to use it. I'm not even using Steam, and Stadia is a lot worse DRM-wise.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

just for curiosity, you play only on linux and buy from no DRMed stores. Do they make enough games with this combo? I can't think of any recent AAA game that fullfill the criteria. It's not a critique and don't want to start a conversation about gaming industry, just curious about how many games can be played this way.

Enough for me I guess? I'm playing many Windows only games in Wine on Linux as well, so it's not like there is a lack of them. GOG has new releases regularly, though I mostly avoid Windows only ones, but I don't mind picking them at some later time when they are already well discounted. I prefer buying games that have Linux releases at full price when possible, to prioritize support for such developers. As it stands, I have a backlog of games that I bought and I'd like to play, so clearly they aren't lacking

 

[SigilFey]

I rather stick with GOG, no need for anything else. I just hope they get more high tier titles. But they already got Bioshock 1 and 2 and i think Infinite will follow as will many other great games new and old.

I always liked GOG best for the fact that I could download the actual installation packages. I used to travel a lot about 10 years ago, and I loved being able to have the games on-hand (as there were still several places in the world where the internet was...not).

@SigilFey: sure, personally I'm not going to use it. I'm not even using Steam, and Stadia is a lot worse DRM-wise.

It was many years before I was willing to buy anything that required Steam. Can't say I love it now, but it's alright. Not a fan of many of their policies, but I'd rather have it around than not have it around.

I'll withhold my response to Stadia until it's actually put into action. We'll see. I still play almost all games offline and have strong desires not to play them online. If it's a platform that devs can use to specifically create online-only games...I don't have any major issue. If it's a gateway toward making all games online-only, my response will not include sprinkles.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Enough for me I guess?

Of course Thanks for clarifying, I was very curious to understand if many games arrived on linux without me noticing or not.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Yeah, computing power often seems to translate to "prettier graphics" rather than "better gameplay systems."

Yeah, gameplay systems... tied to gameplay variety, gameplay opportunities, interactvity, reactivity; plus quantity, magnitude and persistence of consequences, world events, etc, etc, etc.

But, let me ask you this.. IF you could choose between a game that benefits from the computing power of multiple high-end pc's and one that dosen't, one that is confined to what you can shove in a box, console or otherwise, what would you pick?

It is a "Personal Computer", afterall. I can well manage with less horsepowers if it means my gaming habits aren't tied to internet connection. And I also think I'm going to close up retirement before those "alleged" horsepowers would be actually used in a way I would prefer them to be used, or how I would use them, were I ever a developer myself. It's just not trendy enough.

And about consoles... I'm not going to get any friends with this, but I think the whole idea of "consoles" is pretty pointless this day and age anyway. Rolling into one platform (upgradeable PC, what ever the required modifications might be to increase ease of use) would benefit the games much better than console competition, and would lower the costs of creating the games as they'd only be made on one platform. Consoles are relics that don't offer much of anything beyond PC anymore as even there games are "installed" and/or downloaded, they are little PC's already. And PC's can easily be rigged on televisions, PC's can use controllers...

And it's the same thing with all those different clients... Steam, Uplay, Epic Store, Origin, etc... It would be much better and more convenient for the consumer to roll those all under one single client.

Anyway...

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Of course Thanks for clarifying, I was very curious to understand if many games arrived on linux without me noticing or not.

Overall Linux gaming market has grown over the years, and is a lot better in the recent times. Players like Google and their Stadia can further affect it in some interesting ways.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I suppose it can be a good platform indeed for games like MMORPGs and the like which by design are on-line games. I wouldn't mind such service in those cases, so good point.

 

[Sild]

And about consoles... I'm not going to get any friends with this, but I think the whole idea of "consoles" is pretty pointless this day and age anyway. Rolling into one platform (upgradeable PC, what ever the required modifications might be to increase ease of use) would benefit the games much better than console competition, and would lower the costs of creating the games as they'd only be made on one platform. Consoles are relics that don't offer much of anything beyond PC anymore as even there games are "installed" and/or downloaded, they are little PC's already. And PC's can easily be rigged on televisions, PC's can use controllers...

Aye, they're basically PC's already, just very.. closed source pc's. Their existance is only sustained by their accessibility and efforts of their respective companies. But Stadia promises to be much more.

I don't really understand the apparent fanaticism surrounding this.. "always online" thing. Are you planning on giving up on your internet connection anytime soon? internet speeds are getting faster and faster anyway, what took days a few years ago today is done in minutes. I know it's dependant on a lot of factors like ISP's and infrastructure, but those are naturally expanding day by day in every part of the world. It's not a DRM thing, i mean i can be seen like that, sure, but it's also a means to an end. It's up to developers to envision that end, Stadia, is just a platform after all, the likes of which i haven't seen before.

It is a "Personal Computer", afterall. I can well manage with less horsepowers if it means my gaming habits aren't tied to internet connection. And I also think I'm going to close up retirement before those "alleged" horsepowers would be actually used in a way I would prefer them to be used, or how I would use them, were I ever a developer myself. It's just not trendy enough.

I see what you mean, and i can agree that we probably won't see anything spectacular any time soon, but, if this proves successful we MIGHT see something spectacular sooner than we would otherwise, waiting for individual hardware pieces to really be able to render and maintain complex simulations.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I don't really understand the apparent fanaticism surrounding this.. "always online" thing. Are you planning on giving up on your internet connection anytime soon? internet speeds are getting faster and faster anyway, what took days a few years ago today is done in minutes. I know it's dependant on a lot of factors like ISP's and infrastructure, but those are naturally expanding day by day in every part of the world. It's not a DRM thing, i mean i can be seen like that, sure, but it's also a means to an end. It's up to developers to envision that end, Stadia, is just a platform after all, the likes of which i haven't seen before.

But it totally is a DRM issue, same as what affects any other DRMed stores. Read about what those problems are. Such as, preventing games preservation, inability to have a safe backup and so on. I.e. if store like Stadia shuts down, you just lose access to all the games for good. Compare it to stores like GOG where once you buy something, you can back it up and not depend on the store anymore.

It's not just about having connection or not. It's about actually not being restricted in using the game vs depending on some service for it.

 

[Sild]

Such as, preventing games preservation, inability to have a safe backup and so on. I.e. if store like Stadia shuts down, you just lose access to all the games for good.

Like I said, you can see it like that, but "backing up" a game from gog won't preserve it anymore than storing it online, in a game library, a storage site and so on. Online it could ensure greater longevity tho, if we take into account all the kinds of backup medium corruption that can happen, offline.

And right now they said nothing really about how the acquisition and usage of games will work on it. If I had to guess most if not all of the games using it won't be exclusive to it, neither will Valve or Gog dissappear, unless they somehow become redundant. Which I really doubt.

 

[Snowflakez]

Well, technically, you don't own many of the things you buy, you're just given a license to use it, especially when it comes to software.

The files are on my computer, I can play them without being connected to the internet, I can move them to a different machine and play them there - how else do you classify ownership?

I'm not counting multiplayer games, of course (of which I have very few).

You still don't own them, you are lincensing them, you (we) have been for quite a few years now. And to activate that licence you need an internet connection. Granted not all the time, but if internet is all you NEED? I mean i'm fine spending 2000 bucks every few years, deal with all sorts of hardware - software incompatibilities AND deal with the whole platform-exclusive-day one day two day three day #@! patch while HOPING games will somehow magically go back to the model from years back. It's not going to happen. GPU's are becoming more and more expensive, their time-performance efficiency becoming more and more reduced. It's fine for a hobby but don't fool yourself thinking it's the best option (or will be for much more) when talking games for anything except indies (but more are making their way to the consoles).

Okay, you completely lost me here. We were mostly in agreement until this point.

The studios I care about will almost certainly continue to release games on PC, in the form they have been so far, for the foreseeable future. There's been no indication that this will change. Rockstar, CDPR, Bethesda, Obsidian, etc.

If EA, Ubisoft, and other major publishers want to go the always-online route... Hey, more power to 'em. I don't play their stuff anyway!

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the defeatist perspective - the "it's happening whether you like it or not so get used to it bud" attitude is silly.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Their existance is only sustained by their accessibility and efforts of their respective companies.

and extremely well optimised exclusive masterpieces. The day sony will bring its games on other platforms (at launch and not years later), consoles will be very close to their death, in particular if someone decides to make some AI that optimises games for your machine (not the stupid nvidia feature that works like shit) because I don't want to waste my few hours per week of gaming at thinking about hardware and settings. Until that day, I will gladly play on my PS/xbox whatever. Stadia looks perfect for me: 65" smart tv and a controller (and a connection that I don't have, stupid digital divide). That's it.

EDIT: actually, thinking better, I don't see why I should buy a PC, I really don't need it, my 200€ 2016 smartphone fits all my needs (outside of work). I realise only now that I don't really know anyone between my friends who still uses a PC except for work or gaming. mmm...

 

[Sild]

The files are on my computer, I can play them without being connected to the internet, I can move them to a different machine and play them there - how else do you classify ownership?

I'm not counting multiplayer games, of course (of which I have very few).

Nope, unless you have Steam and acces to your account on the different machine. Kinda like multiplayer games.. worse actually.

If that machine can even run it that is, Stadia could make that particular problem a non issues, granted, if you have Internet access.

Okay, you completely lost me here. We were mostly in agreement until this point.

The studios I care about will almost certainly continue to release games on PC, in the form they have been so far, for the foreseeable future. There's been no indication that this will change. Rockstar, CDPR, Bethesda, Obsidian, etc.

If EA, Ubisoft, and other major publishers want to go the always-online route... Hey, more power to 'em. I don't play their stuff anyway!

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the defeatist perspective - the "it's happening whether you like it or not so get used to it bud" attitude is silly.

I was referring to cost-performance-efficiency ratio, which right now compared to consoles is pretty bad, but, bearable. However if the new ones achive 4k 60fps performance in AAA games for 300-400 bucks once every 4-5 years, well, i wouldn't call that defeatist, id call it a reality, ofc, games wise, because that's what it's all about here. A nice.. expensive hobby, to tweak your games a bit, enjoy some quirky indie games and that's about it. You'd be needing to shell out serious money JUST to catch up to console performance, not exactly what PC gaming used to be about nor should it be. Thinking it's going otherwise, to me, it's silly.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Why compare it to consoles though? They are always going to be behind high end PCs. It's consoles that always play catch up performance wise, not the other way around.

 

[Sild]

Why compare it to consoles though? They are always going to be behind high end PCs. It's consoles that always play catch up performance wise, not the other way around.

Because phones aren't there yet.

Also might quote this back to you sometime during 2020.