Platform Discussion Thread

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Which API do you think CP 2077 will use?


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Vulkan ray tracing spec is now standardized: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Vulkan-Ray-Tracing-Promoted
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Some interesting details here about vkd3d-proton in regards to ray tracing: https://www.khronos.org/blog/vulkan-ray-tracing-final-specification-release

We received feedback from authors of API translation layers (such as vkd3d-proton) that it would be impractical to layer DXR on top of the provisional API Vulkan Ray Tracing acceleration structure. This resulted in changes to a sized acceleration structure creation and using allocation of acceleration structure storage on a VkBuffer instead of dedicated acceleration structure object storage. One impact of these changes is that the VkAccelerationStructureKHR and VkAccelerationStructureNV handles are no longer aliases and cannot be used interchangeably. Similarly any structures or functions which take them as parameters are also no longer aliased.
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Nice to see projects like vkd3d-proton actually affecting Khronos designing the ray tracing API in Vulkan. May be all this will be ready in time to play CP2077 with ray tracing enabled (though from what I've heard, it's going to be a huge performance drain so possibly something to avoid when playing the game).
 
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Oh, that was quick. Very nice of CDPR to provide the game for Wine/Proton developers in advance!
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I'll consider buying the game sooner, since CDPR did at least something to help make it playable on Linux.
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Still can't get hold of RX 6800 XT cards though...
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Just got the game, time to test it.
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Testing in Wine-staging + vkd3d-proton master + Mesa master. Using RX 5700 XT (can't find recent AMD cards anywhere to buy so far), 2560x1440, didn't play around with video settings yet so something default.

Intro video:





Character creation screen:



First in-game area (a bar):



Sometimes things glitch out in video sequences:



There are still some graphical glitches (like blinking black things and etc.). So things aren't perfect yet.

Some vkd3d bug reporting to do.
 
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Quote from vkd3d-proton developer:

The Stadia port was done by QLOC fwiw, not by CDPR themselves.

I wonder how the hell they even made this broken mess of a game work on there. The only reason it doesn't work on Nvidia with vkd3d-proton right now is because it's so buggy that we need a Vulkan extension that works around these bugs by chance, since it more closely resembles native D3D12 behaviour than our previous implementation without that extension. It's that bad.

So I suppose CDPR still don't have Linux developers in-house and outsourced that work.
 
Hehe: https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton/commit/49ed5beb6325c4e418a63618b1c35f22ac2928c7

New games added to "expected to work" list:
...
- Cyberpunk 2077 (**)
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(**) Currently only runs correctly on AMD hardware with RADV and VK_VALVE_mutable_descriptor_type.
As of writing, this requires the latest Mesa Git build.
The game has some fatal bugs where it relies on undefined behavior with descriptor management
which this extension works around by accident.
The game will start and run on NVIDIA, but just like what happens without the extension on AMD,
the GPU will randomly hang, making the game effectively unplayable.
A game update to fix this bug would likely make the game playable on NVIDIA as well.
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See also: https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton/commit/9cbd1b2a0d71fd0806ffe9014f56e8507de65162

Let me try if that second change fixes the flickering for me.
 
I think that they are stuck with DX12 because of a NVIDIA contract, not because of Microsoft, NVIDIA made their DXR stuff to work very tightly with DX12, is a chore to even try to touch on that API to create compatibility with vkd3d.

I don't know but I heard that CDPR has bad rep with Linux community because of The Witcher 2 release, they used wine to make the game compatible and people didn't like it and that was way before DXVK and Proton existed, so yeah was a bad move from the Linux community to do this on a company that is trying to support Linux. I don't think they continue hold a grudge or if this is a problem of contracts with NVIDIA.
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And I think that NVIDIA RT extensions have a short life, I don't know why NVIDIA is so anti-industry standard on a technology that is not going to drive their market cap, what make them won a lot of money is not the gaming division but the AI stuff, some companies has paid extra to have their stuff because is the best in the market, but in the gaming division idk why they continue to be so anti-consumer creating this type of stuff so closed to drive sales on a graphics card they can't even produce sufficient quantity to sell because they need to attend the AI demand.
 
Nothing stops CDPR from adding ray tracing through Vulkan, once Vulkan support for it will be in all drivers. They already have Vulkan renderer for Stadia, but apparently they outsourced the work. So they possibly they don't have any Linux and Vulkan developers in the studio?
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Yep, flickering is fixed now! Or rather worked around how the commit suggests.

 
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What's the problem with using their own forum for such questions? Or you are simply saying it's not effective?





And why is that exactly? I admit, communication is a weak spot for CDPR lately. They mostly avoid it, especially in public. But why should it always be that bad? There is room for improvement. Anyway, this thread isn't specifically focused on communication problems (there is one just for that).

---------- Updated at 04:42 PM ----------

The point of this thread is not in yelling at devs and flaming such things, but in normal dialog and discussion.

They should be very upfront about where to address them.
 
They can forego raytracing with Vulkan. Raytracing takes a big performance hit even with high end GPU. Most people will have a RTX 3060 tier GPU not a RTX 3080 or RX 6800, so RT won't be reasonable to turn on. If CDPR makes Vulkan (without RT) available for the game on Steam and GOG, it will be a small but nice contributions to Linux. D3D is like DRM for Linux and any other platform that's not Windows. Is it really asking to much to hope for CDPR, who are affiliated with a DRM-free champion GOG, to make Vulkan (without RT) available? It's already uses Vulkan for Stadia.
We strongly believe that if you buy a game, it should be yours, and you can play it the way it’s convenient for you, and not how others want you to use it.
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Given they outsourced Vulkan work for Stadia, I'd say it's not a very high chance they'll integrate Vulkan in their current engine well to enable it for Windows too.

I hope their next game will already use Vulkan from the start and they'll avoid DX12 mess.

The problem could be that MS will anticipate something like that and will introduce some feature XYZ in DX12 telling everyone how criticial it is. Since MS have no need to collaborate with anyone they can do it faster than Khronos can do it with Vulkan. And this vicious cycle will continue. Only if developers understand this problem and make a clear choice to avoid lock-in, things could improve.
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Pretty good result for vkd3d.
 
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They should be very upfront about where to address them.

They are. Contact information is readily available for anyone that needs it:

The forums are for community discussions. Nothing here is meant as business matters. This is a hub for subjective feedback, support, and fun. Any official announcements will be made by the REDs or linked directly to the official announcements.

Anyone wishing to handle things with CD Projekt RED directly will need to use the appropriate channels to speak directly to the studio. (And even then, there is no response guaranteed. Sometimes, there's just no answer that can be given. [Sometimes, the answer is just, "Sorry, but no."])

And that's not discouragement for people sharing their thoughts! A lot of good stuff comes out of listening to people talk things through! (Studios have whole forums devited to such things! :D )
 
Pretty good result for vkd3d.
Excellent I'd say for days after launch. But we need Vulkan. I think CDPR Red are among the developers that Microsoft watches carefully in case they decide to incorporate Vulkan into RedEngine. If they do, then as you say, they send a D3D swat team to clean things up. I want to believe that next game will have Vulkan, now that raytracing for it has matured, but I don't know. With Cyberpunk they put in so much work into the engine. All the tooling they have made are probably for D3D only. So what are the odds of them making their tools work with Vulkan for next game?
 
In NVIDIA on my GTX 970 is running pretty bad and buggy, always getting locked on some parts, the lights flickers but very randomly, sometimes don't flicker, sometimes flickers a lot. I'm waiting VKD3D and NVIDIA updates to have a better experience. It would help a lot the Vulkan renderer, pls CDPR.
 
Developers explained why Nvidia is so bad now. It's missing one recent extension in their Vulkan driver that works around game bugs, namely VK_VALVE_mutable_descriptor_type.

I'm personally waiting to get RX 6800 XT before playing the game much.
 
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