Player given GG bonus is simply not a good idea

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Player given GG bonus is simply not a good idea

I'm level 30 so I have a lot of experience to draw from on this topic. I haven't always disliked the gg bonus but I just recently decided that it really is not a good idea and should not be in the final game. I don't know why any devs ever thought that players should have the ability to give each other bonuses. That stuff should never be in the hands of the players. I could talk a lot about this topic but one thing that really bugs me is how some players inexplicably don't give the bonus. I don't know why they don't give it, they just don't. For me I have always tried to give it in nearly every game. The times I don't give it are usually when someone leaves during the first round before hardly anything has happened. Progression can be very slow in this game even with those bonuses so if you lose a game and don't get it then you get nothing. This is annoying as hell. I ask myself why people don't give the bonus but then I realize that after someone doesn't give it to me I get this urge to stop giving it out to people as well. It's a stupid cycle of people getting upset and not wanting to give the bonus anymore. And the worst part is that it's never going to stop. This problem will never be fixed unless the devs change it.

I just want to reiterate that if I give someone a bonus after a good game and they do not reciprocate it makes me feel cheated. I have no desire to ever give that bonus to anyone who isn't going to give it back to me. That is the huge flaw in this system.
 
It's honestly very exhausting defending this system so I hope I don't come off badly.

​Feeling like you have accomplished nothing after spending time in a game is a result of their being no quests, or similar events, at the moment, as well as a progression bar that only moves off a win. Feeling you haven't progressed at all has nothing to do with a gg bonus system.

Bonus is the key phrase here. You should go into every match expecting to get 0 rewards from a loss (similar to hearthstone). Receiving a gg is a "bonus". Expecting a bonus is entitlement and actually makes the term "bonus" mean nothing.

Allowing a griefer to upset you by not sending you a 5 ore bonus is a problem that you have to work on. People without good sportsmanship exist. Allowing this person to affect your life negatively is exactly what that person wants. All one has to do is not take this so seriously. It's only 5 currency. That's very insignificant. Also, retaliating to these griefers by wanting to not give the bonus to anyone else is taking things to the extreme, imo.

Progression being tied to wins is an issue but stop coupling it with the gg system. The gg system is not meant to be a reliable progression system. Just a small addition to the game.
 
Yourfacetm;n6892710 said:
It's honestly very exhausting defending this system so I hope I don't come off badly.

​Feeling like you have accomplished nothing after spending time in a game is a result of their being no quests, or similar events, at the moment, as well as a progression bar that only moves off a win. Feeling you haven't progressed at all has nothing to do with a gg bonus system.

Bonus is the key phrase here. You should go into every match expecting to get 0 rewards from a loss (similar to hearthstone). Receiving a gg is a "bonus". Expecting a bonus is entitlement and actually makes the term "bonus" mean nothing.

Allowing a griefer to upset you by not sending you a 5 ore bonus is a problem that you have to work on. People without good sportsmanship exist. Allowing this person to affect your life negatively is exactly what that person wants. All one has to do is not take this so seriously. It's only 5 currency. That's very insignificant. Also, retaliating to these griefers by wanting to not give the bonus to anyone else is taking things to the extreme, imo.

Progression being tied to wins is an issue but stop coupling it with the gg system. The gg system is not meant to be a reliable progression system. Just a small addition to the game.

Yourfacetm;n6892710 said:
It's honestly very exhausting defending this system so I hope I don't come off badly.

​Feeling like you have accomplished nothing after spending time in a game is a result of their being no quests, or similar events, at the moment, as well as a progression bar that only moves off a win. Feeling you haven't progressed at all has nothing to do with a gg bonus system.

Bonus is the key phrase here. You should go into every match expecting to get 0 rewards from a loss (similar to hearthstone). Receiving a gg is a "bonus". Expecting a bonus is entitlement and actually makes the term "bonus" mean nothing.

Allowing a griefer to upset you by not sending you a 5 ore bonus is a problem that you have to work on. People without good sportsmanship exist. Allowing this person to affect your life negatively is exactly what that person wants. All one has to do is not take this so seriously. It's only 5 currency. That's very insignificant. Also, retaliating to these griefers by wanting to not give the bonus to anyone else is taking things to the extreme, imo.

Progression being tied to wins is an issue but stop coupling it with the gg system. The gg system is not meant to be a reliable progression system. Just a small addition to the game.


Nah, there's actually a tweak/improvement that can be made to the system.

I recommend: Implement the prisoner's dilemma.

If both players send "GG" to each other: good bonus for both.

If only one player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.

If no player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.

This way, more players are incentivized to send the "GG", and toxic players are not accidentally rewarded for being toxic.
 
MisterBurkes;n6892840 said:
I recommend: Implement the prisoner's dilemma.
If both players send "GG" to each other: good bonus for both.
If only one player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.
If no player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.

This is NOT a Prisoner's dilemma. A proper Prisoner's dilemma looks like this:

If both players send GG to each other, then GG bonus for both.
If only one player sends GG, then the player who DIDN'T send GG receives a DOUBLE bonus.
If no player sends GG, then BOTH player receive a PENALTY (aka Mutual Destruction) equals to the bonus.
 
They could remove the bonus for GG and give that bonus for every game played. GG can then be used for actual good games. This will also fix the issue of people not progressing when losing games (at least somewhat; daily reward progress could be added at 1/2 rate too).
 
Exentryk;n6892930 said:
They could remove the bonus for GG and give that bonus for every game played. GG can then be used for actual good games. This will also fix the issue of people not progressing when losing games (at least somewhat; daily reward progress could be added at 1/2 rate too).
Good idea! Then 100% of players will send this bonus after a match
 
StrykerxS77x;n6892520 said:
I just want to reiterate that if I give someone a bonus after a good game and they do not reciprocate it makes me feel cheated. I have no desire to ever give that bonus to anyone who isn't going to give it back to me. That is the huge flaw in this system.

That's not a flaw in the system, its down to the individual. We purposely relinquish control of the rewards at this point.

We want to do this to encourage good sportstmanship and generally with some exploits aside it seems to be going well.
 
Rethas;n6893860 said:
That's not a flaw in the system, its down to the individual. We purposely relinquish control of the rewards at this point.

We want to do this to encourage good sportstmanship and generally with some exploits aside it seems to be going well.

Nonetheless, it needs more tweaking. I think it's very frustrating for any player to win or lose in Round 3 in a very close game and then not receive a GG reward,
 
MisterBurkes;n6893880 said:
Nonetheless, it needs more tweaking. I think it's very frustrating for any player to win or lose in Round 3 in a very close game and then not receive a GG reward,

As I said and acknowledged there are some issues.

However I disagree about the later statement, that's the players choice and we want it to be.
 
Rethas;n6893930 said:
As I said and acknowledged there are some issues.

However I disagree about the later statement, that's the players choice and we want it to be.

I think a lack of reciprocity will lead players to ignore the GG system altogether. I started out 100% sending GG's simply because it's closed beta and I figured everyone should receive the bonus to help test the game. However, clearly, many players do not understand this, as I think I only receive GG's maybe 1/2 to 2/3 games.

A low reciprocity rate means the progression/free rewards will need to be included elsewhere.


 
MisterBurkes;n6892840 said:
Nah, there's actually a tweak/improvement that can be made to the system.

I recommend: Implement the prisoner's dilemma.

If both players send "GG" to each other: good bonus for both.

If only one player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.

If no player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.

This way, more players are incentivized to send the "GG", and toxic players are not accidentally rewarded for being toxic.


​Or we can stop looking at people who don't send gg as "toxic". People are not toxic just because they lack good sportsmanship with their last game, they are humans. Moreso, you should not be sending gg to somebody with the expectation that you will also get a gg. You strive to send gg every time because its the right thing to do, not because you want a bonus yourself.

 
Yourfacetm;n6894180 said:
​Or we can stop looking at people who don't send gg as "toxic". People are not toxic just because they lack good sportsmanship with their last game, they are humans. Moreso, you should not be sending gg to somebody with the expectation that you will also get a gg. You strive to send gg every time because its the right thing to do, not because you want a bonus yourself.

Then we disagree, because it seems pretty toxic to slow down the progression other beta testers who want to test the game in order to submit bug reports and provide feedback. Especially since there will be a wipe.
 
MisterBurkes;n6893880 said:
Nonetheless, it needs more tweaking. I think it's very frustrating for any player to win or lose in Round 3 in a very close game and then not receive a GG reward,

You are allowing another persons lack of actions negatively effect you based off your expectations. Stop expecting an arbitrary award and your troubles will go away.​
 
Yourfacetm;n6894210 said:
You are allowing another persons lack of actions negatively effect you based off your expectations. Stop expecting an arbitrary award and your troubles will go away.​

Yes, if the expectation is that no one sends "GG"'s, then the progression is a bit lacking with no rewards for losses. Ergo, plenty of other threads which are addressing that issue as well.
 
MisterBurkes;n6894220 said:
Yes, if the expectation is that no one sends "GG"'s, then the progression is a bit lacking with no rewards for losses. Ergo, plenty of other threads which are addressing that issue as well.


​Yes, I agree! Ergo, my thread suggesting quests to be implemented. This gg system is not meant to be a primary source of progression. And I have said that a win based progression system isn't the best for all players.

 
this gg nonsense has been lurking all over this forum in various amount of posts.
i personally don't care about gg at all. i always press it, no matter what happened in the game. for me it is a button that must be pressed when i see it. it became routine action.
i don't think about gg as good sportsmanship because that is an illusion. if you really think people will act like: "oh man, that guy was so awesome, the way he played was marvelous. i must press gg in order to show him my admiration." then u are so very wrong. people act as they please and mostly they don't act like you would expect them to act. if you feel u need acknowledgment after you have defeated someone i suggest u slowly drop the need for that.
someone said you need to hinder person's progression if he didn't press gg. i believe that is a very wrong approach. progression should remain the same as it is; you win, u advance. losing progression just because u haven't pressed a non mandatory button as far as i'm concerned is silly and should be avoided.
now that i see how things are developing it is best to remove gg button because that one tiny button is causing a lot of issues.
 
MisterBurkes;n6894070 said:
I think a lack of reciprocity will lead players to ignore the GG system altogether. I started out 100% sending GG's simply because it's closed beta and I figured everyone should receive the bonus to help test the game. However, clearly, many players do not understand this, as I think I only receive GG's maybe 1/2 to 2/3 games.

A low reciprocity rate means the progression/free rewards will need to be included elsewhere.

Your evidence is anecdotal and not really representative of the whole picture. From our perspective looking at things on a broader scale it seems to be working.

You're welcome to your opinion on the system of course :)
 
Rethas;n6893930 said:
As I said and acknowledged there are some issues.

However I disagree about the later statement, that's the players choice and we want it to be.

I honestly don't understand why you guys would want rewards to be a players choice. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if either both players don't recevie or both players receive it. But right now I either A) Give the gg bonus and then potentially don't get one back which is HORRIBLE. or B) I don't give the gg bonus and then feel like a jerk which just perpetuates the cycle of players not giving it and people being offended by it.

I don't like these choices.

With all due respect. :) I love CD Project Red.

--- Updated 06-11-16, 14:37 ---

Yourfacetm;n6892710 said:
It's honestly very exhausting defending this system so I hope I don't come off badly.



​Feeling like you have accomplished nothing after spending time in a game is a result of their being no quests, or similar events, at the moment, as well as a progression bar that only moves off a win. Feeling you haven't progressed at all has nothing to do with a gg bonus system.



Bonus is the key phrase here. You should go into every match expecting to get 0 rewards from a loss (similar to hearthstone). Receiving a gg is a "bonus". Expecting a bonus is entitlement and actually makes the term "bonus" mean nothing.



Allowing a griefer to upset you by not sending you a 5 ore bonus is a problem that you have to work on. People without good sportsmanship exist. Allowing this person to affect your life negatively is exactly what that person wants. All one has to do is not take this so seriously. It's only 5 currency. That's very insignificant. Also, retaliating to these griefers by wanting to not give the bonus to anyone else is taking things to the extreme, imo.



Progression being tied to wins is an issue but stop coupling it with the gg system. The gg system is not meant to be a reliable progression system. Just a small addition to the game.



Maybe my original post wasn't clear enough or I didn't communicate it adequately enough. My big problem with this system really doesn't have anything to do with getting zero rewards from a game. It's getting zero reward WHILE I give the other guy a reward who doesn't give me one back. That is what I hate. You are mistaken thinking that I feel entitled to anything. I don't. I simply do not like this system at all.



Your opinion that the bonus is insignificant is just that, your opinion. Those bonuses add up fast and for people who 1) don't pay for kegs, 2) don't play a lot, and 3) are finished leveling for the day, those bonuses do mean a lot to people.



I didn't say that I have stopped giving the bonus. I said that I get the urge to not give it because I absolutely hate giving it and not getting one back.



--- Updated 06-11-16, 14:39 ---

MisterBurkes;n6892840 said:
Nah, there's actually a tweak/improvement that can be made to the system.



I recommend: Implement the prisoner's dilemma.



If both players send "GG" to each other: good bonus for both.



If only one player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.



If no player sends "GG", then neither player receives a bonus.



This way, more players are incentivized to send the "GG", and toxic players are not accidentally rewarded for being toxic.



Now this is a solution that I was hinting at and like a lot! Thank you good sir!





--- Updated 06-11-16, 14:42 ---

Yourfacetm;n6894180 said:
​Or we can stop looking at people who don't send gg as "toxic". People are not toxic just because they lack good sportsmanship with their last game, they are humans. Moreso, you should not be sending gg to somebody with the expectation that you will also get a gg. You strive to send gg every time because its the right thing to do, not because you want a bonus yourself.



Why are you telling people what to do and how to think? Your view of the gg bonus is not everyone's view.



 
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Rethas;n6894370 said:
Your evidence is anecdotal and not really representative of the whole picture. From our perspective looking at things on a broader scale it seems to be working.

You're welcome to your opinion on the system of course :)

I hope you are treating each new wave of beta keys as a new sample set for the "GG"s. The smaller the community, the more sportsmanship. So each time you expand the sample size, you need to look at the GG reciprocity rates as a new sample.
 
StrykerxS77x;n6895890 said:
Maybe my original post wasn't clear enough or I didn't communicate it adequately enough. My big problem with this system really doesn't have anything to do with getting zero rewards from a game. It's getting zero reward WHILE I give the other guy a reward who doesn't give me one back. That is what I hate. You are mistaken thinking that I feel entitled to anything. I don't. I simply do not like this system at all.

​Giving a reward to an opponent is done out of good sportsmanship. You do it and you don't expect to get one back, that's what makes it good sportsmanship. Sending a gg to the other person with the expectation to get one back is selfish and quite the opposite of good sportsmanship.

At this point I am repeating myself to the point of irritation. Hope you can enjoy the gameplay and good luck out there! :)
 
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