Playing other games

[CostinRaz]

If you don't see this as a violation of your principles, then fine.

My principles have nothing to do with a video game's posters. I barely care about internet feminism ( or feminism in general ) to begin with and all the crap that's associated with it, I care very little about video game female representation, or gay or romanian for that matter.

As for how Romanians are portrayed, notwhistanding that the majority of the "civilized" world sees us as beggars, thieves and gypsies? Do I care that much about it? Not really since there are more important things.

Aka mostly every heroine shown in mass media. Mass media that is not feminist.

I've seen mass media Knight for quite a few years, this isn't like that.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

My principles have nothing to do with a video game's posters.

I care about media representation in general and not just games.

But eh, whether you care or not is your own business. Not trying to convince you or anyone. Was just saying, I find that crap revolting crap that should be banned.

 

[CostinRaz]

Perhaps you would first like porn banned or forced to change it's ways? Because say what you will about bad media BUT NOTHING video games have ever done comes close to the shit porn, especially Japanese porn, does with regards to women.

I am against this because forcing video game developers to create specific characters or to show them in specific ways just to appease some demographics is NOT going to create good games. We both know of Zevran and Leliana as compared to Anders, Fenris, Isabela and Merril. The former worked well because their sexuality was a big part of their character, for the latter ( besides Isabela ) it didn't because it was just shoved there for the sake of appeasement.

 

[Aver]

Was just saying, I find that crap revolting crap that should be banned.

Censorship is never good with exception of few extreme examples, but I don't think that naked butt/tit is one of them.

 

[Garrison72]

You hate the Lara that was written by a feminist? I mean seriously if you are going to make it your goal to fight for equality in the video game industry then at least fucking write properly Pratchett.

I personally can't stand Lara myself or the game's story. It reeks of pseudo-feminism.

The problem is, Laura Croft was known as perhaps the first T&A symbol in the industry. If they want to turn her into something more serious, then they need a real writer, not a hack.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Perhaps you would first like porn banned or forced to change it's ways? Because say what you will about bad media BUT NOTHING video games have ever done comes close to the shit porn, especially Japanese porn, does with regards to women.

I think most porn should be banned yes.
But just because there is something worse doesn't mean the rest is acceptable. Not to mention that mass media is far more accessible and relevant in day to day affairs than porn. But yes, a lot of porn should be banned, both for how they show what they show (demeaning to women) and violation of human rights in the workplace.

I am against this because forcing developers to create specific characters or to show them in specific ways just to appease some demographics is NOT going to create good games.

I'm against filling quotas for the sake of it. Yes, I don't think that's a good mindset to have for art.

But at the same time, if you want to create a story that's immersive, you better get out of the white straight male sphere considering it's a minority of the entire global population (unless you have an in-universe explanation such as being stuck on a continent like in TW, but even then I'd like to see a Zerrikeanean other than the crap Javed).

That and writers should be sensitive to demographics that have been systematically excluded since forever. Because I believe art like everything else should be socially responsible.

So it's not about "I need to have 5 females, 3 homosexuals, 3 blacks, 6 Asians....etc"
But rather "I need to portray a world that is diverse such as real life, and portray the demographics that I want to portray in a respectful and nuanced manner." Aka good writing.

 

[Dona.794]

I don't have so strong feeling about it as Costin, but I think that how she presented Lara, could be affected by her ideals. Because even you admitted that they wanted to present Lara as extremely strong person way too hard. Of course we can't be sure for 100% that her ideals affected the way she portrayed Lara, but it is the same as your suspicion that Thief 4 is inspired by Dishonored.

I wonder if we'd be reading the same comments if they didn't advertise Rhianna so much. Again, the quality of writing has fuck all to do with someone's ideals - if anything, she would have made sure those ideals are represented well and they are just... not. I don't know if it's her or the design of the game or something else (and let's not kid ourselves she had 100% freedom in writing, she didn't), but the juxtaposition of Lara's vulnerable/inexperienced side and reactions (Lara's and enemies') to her supposed growth is bad.

 

[CostinRaz]

Not to mention that mass media is far more accessible and relevant in day to day affairs than porn.

There is nothing in the western world nowadays more accessible then porn, you have thousands of clips just a few clicks away available to you for free and a lot of people use it.

you better get out of the white straight male sphere considering it's a minority of the entire global population

Except that the white straight male constitutes the largest video gamer demographic.

That and writers should be sensitive to demographics that have been systematically excluded since forever. Because I believe art like everything else should be socially responsible.

Art is not about being social responsible nor should it be, the moment you try and force it to be either through laws or social pressure is the moment that art loses it's quality. A creator should not have to bow down to such things because you will lose quality and innovation along the way.

Political correctness can go fuck itself when it comes to art.

 

[Blothulfur]

Once met one of the Lara Croft models, Nell McAndrew, tall blond lass with stunning green eyes, fit as fuck as well (ran marathons apparently) and had a broad yorkshire accent like me self. Seemed a nice lass from few words we spoke, then again I was busy trying to scrape me tongue up off o floor.

 

[Sirnaq]

Eh so lead writer was feminist? My first thoughts about the game is that it's rather misogynistic. I mean It's putting stereotype of weak woman. All this moaning etc. But then again, every single male character in the game is either rapist, complete fucking idiot or rapist-idiot so it makes sence after all.

 

[CostinRaz]

But then again, every single male character in the game is either rapist, complete fucking idiot or rapist-idiot so it makes sence after all.

That's kinda the thing that light my lamp.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Except that the white straight male constitutes the largest video gamer demographic.

This is being challenged in recent years and will no longer be the case in a few years.
And is rather irrelevent.

I am a Middle Eastern (but I look very white so eh) straight agnostic male, and I get insulted when say Chinese culture is misrepresented, or women are demeaned, or homosexuals are insulted, or a religious group is ridiculed in media.

Art is not about being social responsible nor should it be, the moment you try and force it to be either through laws or social pressure is the moment that art loses it's quality. A creator should have to bow down to such things because you will lose quality and innovation along the way.

And I disagree completely.

Asking an author to portray black people sensitively and with nuance is not a compromise on innovation. The only thing it compromises is ignorance and douchebagery.

 

[Aver]

So someone mentioned rape. Probably everyone know this discussion about attempted rape in TR. Plenty of people said that rape shouldn't be present in VG, that rape is not a joke, that it is really serious thing and showing such thing in the game is disrespectful etc.

But in Far Cry 3, there was rape too. One male character, Keith, was raped. Yet, I've never heard comment about that. T_T

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

But in Far Cry 3, there is rape too. On male character, Keith, was raped. Yet, I've never heard comment about that. T_T

Didn't hear about it.

I'm on the fence in the portrayal of rape, but generally support its presence IF it's done well. In other words if an author is not sure he or she can portray it well and with tact, they should stay away.

 

[Dona.794]

But in Far Cry 3, there is rape too. On male character, Keith, was raped. Yet, I've never heard comment about that. T_T

Perhaps because our society doesn't believe men can be raped/men are shamed, threatened and kept silent by one another so it gets avoided?

Or maybe it was portrayed well - kind of like The Witcher 2, it will never come up in such discussions because it was actually done well, was respectful to survivors (and those who didn't make it out alive) and generally didn't rustle jimmies.

 

[Garrison72]

Didn't hear about it.

I'm on the fence in the portrayal of rape, but generally support its presence IF it's done well. In other words if an author is not sure he or she can portray it well and with tact, they should stay away.

I could understand showing the attempted groping/rape in TR, but again, the writing is so bad as to undermine any serious discussion on the matter.

 

[Sirnaq]

Video-games discussion guys!

 

[CostinRaz]

Right. Since when are people not ignorant, narrow minded fools? You do not solve this by imposing politeness or trying to, it's a shallow solution that ignores the core problems.

This is being challenged in recent years and will no longer be the case in a few years.
And is rather irrelevent.

When I say the main demographic, I don't mean the largest number of gamers because Asia would beat the crap out of white males any day, however the western world is where the vast majority of money from video games is made and in that market white males dominate it.

So not it's irrelevant, games are run by companies who are interested in making money, you might argue that they can do so while still portraying people of other races and cultures well and I wouldn't disagree, what I disagree is on that idea that it's OK to force them to do this.

Didn't hear about it.

Of course you wouldn't. Who cares about male rape nowadays in real life let alone video games? Too bloody few people that's who.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Right. Since when are people not ignorant, narrow minded fools? You do not solve this by imposing politeness or trying to, it's a shallow solution that ignores the core problems.

Because you're operating with the logic that if I want to impose regulation on media representation, I say fuck it, I'e done my job, I'll go to the bahamas and chill?

You of all people should know that I never believe that problems such as this can have a quick fix. I am aware it's going to be a long and hard process. Me advocating for regulation to deal with the symptoms does not mean I am unaware of the roots of the problem, or am uninterested in dealing with them.

So not it's irrelevant, games are run by companies who are interested in making money, you might argue that they can do so while still portraying people of other races and cultures well and I wouldn't disagree, what I disagree is on that idea that it's OK to force them to do this.

If a game portrays black people as animals? Or idk, portrays homosexuality as an abomination? Or portrays rape as something fun? Or portrays women as sexual objects? Or shows the holocaust to be not such a bad idea?

Yea, you bet I'm going to advocate for it being banned.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Of course you wouldn't. Who cares about male rape nowadays in real life let alone video games? Too bloody few people that's who.

Yes.
And the sad reality is that, in my personal experience and from what I have seen in the media, it's men who scoff and laugh when it's brought up. Because "lol a woman can't rape a man." Or "lol what kind of a weakling man would get raped." Or better yet "yea that guy should feel lucky he got raped by a woman. Why is he complaining?"

I wonder what's responsible for that crap.