Please adjust Gorthur Gvaed (Nilfgaard location) to remove overpowered synergy

[Guest 4563100]

Hello!

First, this is not Nilfgaard hate thread. I love NG. NG was my first deck and I think it's the most interesting faction. I think it was funny to see crazy pages and pages of threads about Anna and Emhyr and know nobody will play or talk about them in two weeks. And people just hatre them because they are NG.

But this new Chinese metabreaker deck is maybe not overpowered (because crime is more overpowered...) but it is not good balance. The synergy of location and Cantarella is too strong. It can 1) steal Oneiromancy or other echo cards or 2) if it can't do that it can replay double Joachim. This is too strong.

The proof is simple. The maker of Chinese metabreaker deck cut locks for this, even Hunters to proc the Ball. Sacrifice the control power of NG for this, only to make Joachim more consistent. Also, the location is an artifact with order, so after it plays, you cannot stop Cantarella from playing any card from your grave. "Play any card from opponent grave" this is very very strong. Much too strong for a 7 provision card (plus a small cost of provision surplus after location plays a bronze; but minus the flexible value of choosing a unit, and this is always more value than just having this unit in hand).

Blue Dream is 12 provision and can only play 1) units 2) 9 provision or less. Location + Canta can play anything. And Oneiromancy doesn't even lose the echo.

Also, less important, but less locks = more of the Viy. And we know how evereybody love Viy Also, Alchemist highrolls with no setup are just frustrating.

My proposition is to either limit Gorthur Gvaed to moving only units or make a provision limit to the card it move (maybe 10? so it doesn't completely brick Joachim interaction?). What do you think? Thank you for reading!

 

[BratenG]

I think it should be just bronze cards cause you're already getting a engine or clog or power point card from it, so to have it be a way way way better Blue Dream is ridiculous in my opinion. The artifact is not dead because of it as it still plays for its intended purpose.

 

[Lord-Misplay]

I think it should be left as it is. Whoever came up with the combo did a good job and if you start nerfing ideas then people will stop trying. Its a game. you win some you lose some. You can play around all these tricks and combos or force them out.

 

[Guest 4563100]

I think it should be just bronze cards

Maybe too much? It will only have clog value, so pretty useless.

I think it should be left as it is. Whoever came up with the combo did a good job and if you start nerfing ideas then people will stop trying. Its a game. you win some you lose some.

Sorry but this makes no sense to me. People came up with overpowered combos so overpowered combos should be left as it is because... people will stop trying to find overpowered combos?

You can play around all these tricks and combos or force them out.

You cannot. You can not play Oneiromancy until they use the location order, and they almost never have to do it until round 3. If you play Oneiromancy, their Canta = 1.5 Oneiromancy value. 1 because they play it fully and 0.5 because they deny you half of it. Canta becomes Oneiromancy and Squirrel in one. And it doesn't need any setup. If this is not overpowered then I dont know.

If you play around it and don't play Oneiromancy, the existence if this combo denies you 0.5 Oneiromancy value without even committing anything, only by existing. Think about it.

And this is just a cherry on the cake. The default play is the Joachim which is premium play itself. And there are other plays you can do with this.

 

[Draconifors]

Whenever something is called problematic due to Oneiromancy, I question if the actual problem isn't Oneiromancy (because it's such a good card) rather than whatever interaction is being called problematic.

Being able to play Joachim four times (with Coup and Gorthur) is undeniably very good indeed -- but is it too good? I can't say, as I've not played it or even really personally faced it.

Gorthur is a great card, I don't think anyone would disagree on that, and it certainly has great synergy potential. But enough to justify or require a nerf? It would take someone far more "pro" than I am to be able to say -- or, of course, data about the card's performance, but only CDPR have that.

 

[Guest 4416545]

Im really bad with NG masquerade ball decks, so my opinión is a bit wacky on this location/canta combo and the 4 joackim, so cant say if It should be nerfed because its op or It should stay because its strong.

Now, even if its a bit misstopic, the alchemy boy yes, it should be nerfed, that card alone can make you win the Game if you Steal something key from your opponent and its so much rng that is Dumb.

I really think alchemy should show only 2 of your card instead of 3, so in case you wanna Yolo you can miss something big yourself, because from the lot of times i played it i never been in the situation of give something big myself.

 

[Lord-Misplay]

Sorry but this makes no sense to me. People came up with overpowered combos so overpowered combos should be left as it is because... people will stop trying to find overpowered combos?



You cannot. You can not play Oneiromancy until they use the location order, and they almost never have to do it until round 3. If you play Oneiromancy, their Canta = 1.5 Oneiromancy value. 1 because they play it fully and 0.5 because they deny you half of it. Canta becomes Oneiromancy and Squirrel in one. And it doesn't need any setup. If this is not overpowered then I dont know.

If you play around it and don't play Oneiromancy, the existence if this combo denies you 0.5 Oneiromancy value without even committing anything, only by existing. Think about it.

1) People came up with "overpowered" combos to beat something else that was "overpowered".

2) I have forced it lots of times without losing Oneiro or any other big cards. Again the answer is change your strategy. If on a game you cannot proceed with your gameplan (set engines, etc.) you need to read your opponents hand and play him instead. Make him commit and if you have to commit too then so be it.

3) In that logic we should remove squirrel completely from the game because a 4p card can deny you the 2nd Oneiro. And in one case a player commits 8p for location and 7p for Canta. 2 Turns minimum. On the other hand its just 4p in one turn. Think about it.

 

[Guest 4563100]

Whenever something is called problematic due to Oneiromancy, I question if the actual problem isn't Oneiromancy

So they can nerf Oneiromancy to 15 provisions. No, to 100 provisions. No matter. Gvaed + Canta can still take it no matter how expensive. So it's not about Oneiromancy.

They nerfed cards and leaders for "design space," yes? How does a mid-provision combo that plays any card in opponent grave sounds? It looks like they can't design any good cards now because NG can always play them for 7-8 provisions.

If on a game you cannot proceed with your gameplan (set engines, etc.) you need to read your opponents hand and play him instead.

And always keep poker face, yes?

 

[Draconifors]

So it's not about Oneiromancy.

Yes, it is. The interaction is problematic because Oneiro is so good, therefore the problem may lie in Oneiro rather than the interaction. You wouldn't complain about the interaction if Oneiro was a bad card. That's as clear as I can make it.

And to add about Joachim: you can prevent the quadruple play by getting rid of Coup while it's in the graveyard in R1 or R2. With at least MO and SK you can also get rid of Joachim while he's in the graveyard. Not saying any of these is worth it (especially the Joachim banishing), but they are possibilities.

 

[Kessman]

Actually, Location and Canta were played together like a million ages ago. I mean right after WotW came out. Why do people notice this only now?
Also, Joachim plays for 8-10 points on average (well he is a 10 provs card why wouldn't he) and might ruin your game by pulling Usurper in r1. I don't get why people consider him a strong card. I play him only because he is an aristocrat.

For me, the most problem with this deck is that they overload your board with spies.

And, I hate damn Alchemist and Cantarella. I don't know how, but they always highroll me.

Post automatically merged: Apr 8, 2021

the alchemy boy yes, it should be nerfed

No no no, it should be completely reworked.
It is not fun (I guess this is what devs intend to give us) at all when this dumb card steals your core wincon.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Yes, it is. The interaction is problematic because Oneiro is so good, therefore the problem may lie in Oneiro rather than the interaction. You wouldn't complain about the interaction if Oneiro was a bad card. That's as clear as I can make it. [...]

The deck that uses the combo is a devotion deck though and as such does not (and cannot) run Oneiromancy ...
Or was your point to compare the criticism to the constant moaning about Oneiromancy ?

Just for clarification I do not think that the interaction, nor Oneiromancy are problematic.

 

[Kessman]

Or you can steal him

Wait, am I miss something. How can you steal Joachim if he is already on your side?

 

[Draconifors]

Wait, am I miss something. How can you steal Joachim if he is already on your side?

You can't. I edited that out already; not sure what I was thinking when I wrote it.

The deck that uses the combo is a devotion deck though and as such does not (and cannot) run Oneiromancy

They can and do when they steal it from the opponent with the Gorthur + Cantarella combo.

 

[Guest 4416545]

You can't. I edited that out already; not sure what I was thinking when I wrote it.

You can Steal It in fact, i read on this forum someone was using the 6 provisión neutral which put the card you choose from your board in your deck and then play the first one of your deck, dont know the name of It on english, but that break the 4 joackim combo

No no no, it should be completely reworked.
It is not fun (I guess this is what devs intend to give us) at all when this dumb card steals your core wincon.

+1

 

[InkognitoXI]

You can't. I edited that out already; not sure what I was thinking when I wrote it.


They can and do when they steal it from the opponent with the Gorthur + Cantarella combo.

In that case you steal Oneiromancy, rather than executing the combo with Joachim.

 

[Draconifors]

i read on this forum someone was using the 6 provisión neutral which put the card you choose from your board in your deck and then play the first one of your deck

Sounds like Decoy. The opponent could simply steal a Decoyed Joachim back though (since they're NG), assuming Decoy doesn't pick it as the card to play, which would allow them to use Gorthur for something else and still get triple or quadruple Joachim.

I don't think Joachim is worth all the hassle though, because like was pointed out he can be less than great or even bad depending on what he pulls.

In that case you steal Oneiromancy, rather than executing the combo with Joachim.

Yes, and? I never said anything different. Of course you can only use Gorthur's Order once.

 

[Guest 4416545]

Sounds like Decoy. The opponent could simply steal a Decoyed Joachim back though (since they're NG), assuming Decoy doesn't pick it as the card to play, which would allow them to use Gorthur for something else and still get triple or quadruple Joachim.

I don't think Joachim is worth all the hassle though, because like was pointed out he can be less than great or even bad depending on what he pulls.

Yes decoy is the card i mean. And no, what decoy does is put the unit you choose randomly in your deck and then play the first unit of your deck.

So if you use It on their first joachim they cant replay It and one aristócrat less for them.

The only way i can think of this cantarella deck to use joackim again once you Steal It is if you use their own joackim and then they use their localition/canta to use decoy on It, which dont think would be worth It for them in most scenarios.

So its a big counter, but not worth It against any other decks.

 

[Draconifors]

So if you use It on their first joachim they cant replay It

They can if they steal Joachim back. Gorthur can spawn an Alchemist that can do just that, for example.
Decoy can play the card you put in your deck, I've seen it happen. It's random.

 

[MikeBiazzo]

Yes, but if that happens it's ok, because Joack Is a soy AND you play it on the other side ^^

 

[Lord-Misplay]

And always keep poker face, yes?

In a sense yes. You play against another human being who has the ability to think and react. Spyro Za has a playlist on youtube with Gwent Tutorials. From complete basic things to advanced strategies. I only discovered them after I reached Pro Rank the 1st time. They are a bit outdated in terms of card sets but the principles remain the same. If you havent watched them, do. They will help you set your game better.