Please allow timed dialogue options and all game timers to be set as optional in the settings.

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This thread came from a short chain of mildly off topic (but still somewhat related posts) but off topic enough that they were better off being their very own thread. I just simply quoted and copied over the important parts of those posts to illustrate my reasoning and build the main post of this thread.

Just be careful: in C2077, dialogues will be timed.

The Witcher 3 had this in certain dialogue choices too. I abhor timers in video games. timers are the most fun-ruining fun-destroying, enjoyment-flattening, stressful AND boring part of any video game I have ever played. Timers are never exciting for me, and they never make me feel cool or fast or smart. Timers just make me suffer :(
It does not in any way break my immersion if the game pauses around a dialogue choice I'm making. I understand that I'm playing a video game.

If a game wanted to go for total 100% realism, there would be no dialogue choices/text options hovering in front of my characters face :ROFLMAO:. I would much rather that the game just wait for me to choose whatever dialogue choice I would like and then resume the game after I select my choice, even if it's in the middle of a tense action scene. I rather that the game would pause during dialog selection, or that the music keep playing while I think of my options. I hope it's optional for each player. Just as a setting. Please CDPR take this into consideration! :)

(edited)I don't think you need to worry that much, because I doubt most of the dialogues will be timed Maybe a few here and there, and I understand if that bothers you, but I doubt it'll be the majority. Just my opinion.
It's exactly the ones that are timed that I'm worried about. Any timers at all in video games is too many. :(
 
Timers can make a lot of sense and add tension and intrigue to a situation if they are used logically and well (and are not overused).

A timer running to zero also doesn't need to always mean "fail, try again" or "game over" either (not always, where it would make sense, it needs to, however). Instead it can evolve and guide the situational narrative to a different path and outcome, or simply alter the conditions of it and make the player look for new approaches. A big part of RPG intrigue comes - ideally - from emergent reactivity that keeps the gameworld "alive" and interesting. The passage of time is an excellent tool to provide some of that -- incidentally it is also usually misused where it appears and mostly negelcted on the grander scale due to said misuse that annoys the players. But the potential is there ripe to be reaped for the creative designer.
 
I'm okay with timed dialogue, but sometimes it's hard for a non native english speaker to have the time to read all the options before the time ends.
As long as you just "answer" as being quiet or something and don't get a game over I'm fine with it.
 
Timers can make a lot of sense and add tension and intrigue to a situation if they are used logically and well (and are not overused).
I must disagree, because I have never seen a timer in a video game be used in a good way before. 100% of all my experiences with game timers in all of my experience playing video games, I have never ever even once encountered a "good" timer. No timer ever added "intrigue" as in interest or complexity, so much as the timers always did seem to add complication, aggravation, problematic confusion, and dilemma. Basically, a huge amount of stress that very rudely always seemed to cloud my judgment and impair my ability to make a very important choice. If all I could focus on is the time bar running out, or a clock running down, or even the worry of an invisible timer that is not shown to the player, it would instantly ruin and sabotage my concentration and ability to make a good solid intelligent choice from the options provided to me.

A timer running to zero also doesn't need to always mean "fail, try again" or "game over" either (not always, where it would make sense, it needs to, however).
That is all I have ever known timers to represent. Impending doom, and the immense frustration of the knowledge that I now have to reload my save game 10 times until I can force the game to give me the outcome that I was trying to choose, but wasn't able to clearly perceive because the options disappear so quickly. Timers ruin games. :(


Instead it can evolve and guide the situational narrative to a different path and outcome, or simply alter the conditions of it and make the player look for new approaches.
I would rather do that in the first place, and skip the timer entirely to be totally honest. But what if each of those choices also has its own timer? It matters to me a lot that I have the freedom to choose all my own choices. If there's a timer I'm just stuck reloading saves over and over, or suffering the consequences of missing that timer and having to choose from a list of diminished "punishment choices" for having failed to grab the good choice quickly enough. I just think that timers are a very cheap gameplay mechanic that provide a very easy way of inserting false excitement into a game, similarly to how many horror games are filled with jump scares just because they frighten the player once very quickly, but the rest of the game does nothing to build its own suspense and fear and emotion from its own ability to storytell and set the atmosphere correctly and allow the player to feel the feelings themselves instead of forcing those feelings onto them.

Example: Horror game 1: filled with cheap jump scares and timers to force the player to feel scared or stressed and rushed for one quick moment.

Example 2: Horror game 2: properly sets the story and the theme and the atmosphere and environment and sounds and the mood and raw emotion, and gives the player their own sense of urgency inside of their own mind. The player naturally feels the sense to rush and the fear of what is coming because the player feels it naturally and made themselves feel it because the game is so skillfully made and naturally convincing. This game needs no jumpscare "BOOOO! spooky ghost!" or timer "hurry you have 2 seconds left!!!!" because the player already feels better quality emotions than those mechanics could ever give them.
Quality VS forcing the player to feel it in a cheap way. Very important.


A big part of RPG intrigue comes - ideally - from emergent reactivity that keeps the gameworld "alive" and interesting.
What does this mean?

The passage of time is an excellent tool to provide some of that
I'm a big fan of day/night cycles in video games when done properly.

incidentally it is also usually misused where it appears and mostly negelcted on the grander scale due to said misuse that annoys the players. But the potential is there ripe to be reaped for the creative designer.
like I said, I have never seen a developer make timers fun in a video game. 100% of all my experiences were horrible and ruined the game for me. If I'm always worried I'm going to run into a clock timer or count down timer bar or a dialogue choice bar or quick time event (QTE) then I can never just focus on having fun and immerse myself into the game. :(
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I'm okay with timed dialogue, but sometimes it's hard for a non native english speaker to have the time to read all the options before the time ends.
As long as you just "answer" as being quiet or something and don't get a game over I'm fine with it.
It's also very difficult for people who do speak english, but are naturally slow readers because they always must try to carefully understand every detail of what they are reading to avoid making a mistake. Imagine that someone has trouble reading fast because then they aren't 100% sure that what they read was really accurate, so they have to read it again slowly or they are just flat-out unsure if it says what they think, and the timer is like 3-2-1 you missed your chance! It's horrible. It's horrific torture. :giveup:


Pls no :(
 
If a game wanted to go for total 100% realism, there would be no dialogue choices/text options hovering in front of my characters face :ROFLMAO:. I would much rather that the game just wait for me to choose whatever dialogue choice I would like and then resume the game after I select my choice, even if it's in the middle of a tense action scene. I rather that the game would pause during dialog selection, or that the music keep playing while I think of my options. I hope it's optional for each player. Just as a setting. Please CDPR take this into consideration! :)
Not bad to have options since dialogue is integral to gameplay in CP. But i would prefer to hear some nagging lines from NPCs in casual conversations or ascending music intensity and body language instead of timers to show they're can grow impatient with indecisiveness, all before they change their minds and move on with their next action.. be it pulling a gun out or just making the final decision before a raid.
 
Not bad to have options since dialogue is integral to gameplay in CP. But i would prefer to hear some nagging lines from NPCs in casual conversations or ascending music intensity and body language instead of timers to show they're can grow impatient with indecisiveness, all before they change their minds and move on with their next action.. be it pulling a gun out or just making the final decision before a raid.
I would much rather prefer this because it is much higher quality story telling than "just a timer", but the problem still remains because this changes the timer from a "visible timer clock or bar" into a completely "invisible timer clock or bar" which makes it even more stressful because the player can't see how much time they have left, and can't even be 100% sure when the timer even started. I love your idea, but I would combine that effect with the complete removal of the timer or just not adding the timer at all.
I love the part where you said "to hear some nagging lines from NPCs in casual conversations or ascending music intensity and body language --- pulling a gun out/etc. doing other things to show they are growing impatient" I love the atmospheric intensity and body language and the higher quality story telling, but with no real timer at the same time. So you would see all that happening, but if you wanted to just stop and think for a few minutes, you could do just that with no consequences. :D This would make the game excellent for me. Of course, it would just be an option in the settings menu.
 
Playing games is stressing you out? Damn.. that's a complete opposite of my entire life's experience. To be honest, I'm having a bit of a difficult time even imagining that some convo timer could have such an impact on anyone, but... I guess there's always one. The fact that you find is stressful and boring is even more baffling.

This isn't a new concept, and its something that's been incorporated in just about every game genre, from chess or even solitaire games, RTS, racing, action, adventure... hell, I can't think of any game that I've played in the last couple decades that did not incorporate timed events in some fashion as part of their game. So is it just the timed dialogue that causes you discomfort or just the concept of timed events in general? Genuinely curious... I can understand disliking some aspects of games, and these days people will complain just about everything, but it's rare to see someone be this emotional about a mechanic that's as common as pressing the Right Arrow to go right.
 
^And I bet that 99% of the time there won't be any timed dialogue in a game either, but just like in real life, there are situations that warrant a prompt response instead of sitting and contemplating in silence.

Let me ask another way... is it just the timed dialog that causes you stress and discomfort or any form of timed mechanic? And what games have you played in the past that have not caused you stress?
 
While i agree that timed dialogue is annoying it didn`t happen much in TW3 so i don`t think it will happen much in CP2077 . I can think of one in Until Dawn that was very well done

You had to pick neither option and let the timer run out
 
the timed dialogue sections are the best bit of RP in all of the Witcher 3.

They aren't quick time events to force you to react spam a button but to answer a question honestly.

for key scenes i hope they are back in CP 2077.
 
If there has to be a timer, then for the love of Gawd, have the exact dialog choices for us to choose from and not some condensed interpretation of what the character will actually say. It's not fair to hamper the player twice when it comes to dialog; pick one or the other.
 
Timers can make a lot of sense and add tension and intrigue to a situation if they are used logically and well (and are not overused).
Agreed with this.


Timed dialogue choices really can add a lot to certain types of scenes. E.g. if someone is about to get shot but you can save them by choosing the right words, you wouldn't just stand there for five minutes if it was a real life situation. While video games are never 100% realistic it's often little things that can make a big difference. I can think of several scenes where timed choices really have a positive impact in The Witcher 3 precisely because it is necessary to decide quickly.

Not making a decision does need to result in the game choosing for you, rather than "Game over/You're dead because you didn't choose." I don't know if the latter is even a thing but it might be.

All of this (except video games not being 100% realistic) is entirely subjective, of course.
 
"No"

OR

"20 cyberbux is 20 cyberbux"

10 seconds to decide your fate

Almost a perfect example, only problem is, what will happen if you don't pick? But other than that, I like this way. It's simple and does not take 10 sec to read, it may be an important pick for what may happen next and it's not a game over if you pick "wrong". They will need to show what will happen if you don't pick in time, a special color or something on the text that will be said or a clear way to know what will happen.
Never played the Witcher games to the point of a timed event (what I can remember), so don't know how they did it.
 
I must disagree, because I have never seen a timer in a video game be used in a good way before. 100% of all my experiences with game timers in all of my experience playing video games, I have never ever even once encountered a "good" timer.
That is all I have ever known timers to represent. Impending doom

Well, that's neither here nor there. It doesn't mean it can't be done, just that you've never seen it used otherwise. I've seen quests in older RPG's that use time in other ways than a doomsday clock (although simplistically). And if you scratch your imagination a bit, you can come up ways to use time creatively yourself too.

I would rather do that in the first place, and skip the timer entirely to be totally honest.

Do what?

What does this mean?

You know how "emergent gameplay" is like unexpected events happening during the minute-to-minute gameplay due to how the different gamesystems work together, almost randomly. Like in Fallout New Vegas where, if you have pissed off both, the Legion and NCR, and they both send hit squads after you, you might wake up after resting to witness those hit squads fighting each other, which is not a specifically designed feature, but simply an unexpected result of how the game works, and a consequence to how you've played.

If you add events to the equation where time is of the essence, things can have wild levels of reactivity. Some more controlled than others, but nonetheless.

I'm a big fan of day/night cycles in video games when done properly.

What do you mean "properly", if time should only matter for the brightness levels and other visual props of the game?

I think time is irrelevant if there's no use for it. You can have an eternal day if you can't capture it for meaningful things.

Time should be an indicator that things happen outside the players bubble. Not having that only leads to stupidness where events of alleged urgency patiently wait for the player to lollygag around indefinitely, before triggering.

That doesn't - shouldn't - need to be the case. A little bit of ingenuity to mission design, and you can do wonders with time.
 
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Playing games is stressing you out? Damn.. that's a complete opposite of my entire life's experience. To be honest, I'm having a bit of a difficult time even imagining that some convo timer could have such an impact on anyone, but... I guess there's always one. The fact that you find is stressful and boring is even more baffling.

This isn't a new concept, and its something that's been incorporated in just about every game genre, from chess or even solitaire games, RTS, racing, action, adventure... hell, I can't think of any game that I've played in the last couple decades that did not incorporate timed events in some fashion as part of their game. So is it just the timed dialogue that causes you discomfort or just the concept of timed events in general? Genuinely curious... I can understand disliking some aspects of games, and these days people will complain just about everything, but it's rare to see someone be this emotional about a mechanic that's as common as pressing the Right Arrow to go right.
Playing games with timers don't stress you out? I have to say that is very different than what I've heard many different people talking about. There's a suprisingly large community of players that have been playing video games for a very long time that are completely sick and tired to be totally frank, of timers in video games. Why does it surprise you that some people feel uncomfortable when being timed? As you say,

"This isn't a new concept, and its something that's been incorporated in just about every game genre" "I can't think of any game that I've played in the last couple decades that did not incorporate timed events in some fashion as part of their game."

There are so many people that are tired of these kinds of mechanics because they are cheap and feel very forced. I as the player should rely on the games ability to naturally create tension through storytelling, atmosphere, the environment around the player, the sounds of that environment, and what is actually happening in the game in that current moment VS "Hey we think the player should get really stressed out right now, but it shouldn't have to have anything to do with anything currently happening inside the game right now, No they will be stressed out because of a little clock or disappearing bar, Whallah, masterpiece" See the difference? :shrug:

"So is it just the timed dialogue that causes you discomfort or just the concept of timed events in general? Genuinely curious..."
timed events, timers of any kind at all, very much stress from dialogue choice timers too, since I have to read, and when I read I must read carefully, and then I must think. There is no time to do that, so it ruins the dialogue, thus ruining the story. :(

"these days people will complain just about everything"
I feel you there, and I promise I'm not one of "those". I actually care strongly about this game and take it very seriously. I'm not trying to forcefully insert political stuff into the game because of my beliefs like a lot of those infamous complainers that I will not mention by name (other internet personalities in general, thank God never seen on the forums) I'm trying to make sure that people understand this mechanic, and better ways of conveying emotion and feeling and excitement and stress and many other feelings rather than the game cheaply forcing the player to feel an artificial version of that feeling. An okay horror game scares the player with jumpscares and timers. A masterpiece of a horror game can make the player feel fear all on their own.

"but it's rare to see someone be this emotional about a mechanic"
Because It ruins the experience, and the experience of Cyberpunk2077 must be a masterpiece because it is one, and it must live up to itself, for that is its DESTINY. Imagine being immersed deep into the game, and then you experience something completely immersion shattering that sends you painfully tumbling back into the real world, for example a dancing banana singing "It's peanut butter jelly time!" right before you're fighting the final boss or something. That is how disruptive timers are to players (especially the ones that are sensitive to it) because suddenly I'm not playing the game anymore, I'm freaking out in a stressful panick trying to read the options or look at my choices as fast as I can and force my brain to think so fast that it hurts. There isn't any sense of choice, there's just "Oh no!!! I have to pick the right choice or I will have to reload my save! Hurry choose the smart choice!" with extreme uncomfortable fear that I will choose the bad choices I wanted to avoid, but couldn't possibly know in that short period of time.:oops:

"that's as common as pressing the Right Arrow to go right."
Common or normal doesn't always mean good. It was once common for people to do the plumbing of their homes with lead pipe. (very unhealthy and dangerous!):oops:
He's not alone, I have the same problem actually.
Besides, even IRL most of the time there is no real "window" to say something that dissapears when you waited a bit too much.
Thank you, I'm so glad someone gets it! :shrug:
Example:
*You get into dialogue choices in conversation with character*
Option 1: *Really important information bla bla bla*
Option 2: *Really important information bla bla bla Really important information bla bla bla*
Option 3: *Really important information bla bla bla Really important information bla bla bla*
:think:"Okay so let me read these- *WARNING YOU HAVE 2 SECONDS LEFT TO READ ALL CHOICES AND PICK ONE OR YOU MISS OUT BIG TIME HAHA!*
:confused: "Wait no no I-
*TIME UP! YOU LOSE!*
:mad: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
All this accomplishes is forcing the player to reload the save 10 times until they select the right choice under extreme stress anyway.
^And I bet that 99% of the time there won't be any timed dialogue in a game either, but just like in real life, there are situations that warrant a prompt response instead of sitting and contemplating in silence.

Let me ask another way... is it just the timed dialog that causes you stress and discomfort or any form of timed mechanic? And what games have you played in the past that have not caused you stress?
I said it before, will say again, It's a video game. Realism only benefits the game to a certain point (for example the realism in the environment and how beautiful it is with the atmosphere and the theme etc.) But- at a certain point, too much realism starts to hurt the game because if it's too much like real life, nobody will buy the game and just go enjoy real life, except that real life isn't that fun... because it's too realistic...! See? :shrug: I love playing video games because they're not real life. I'm tired of real life. It's not fun for me. It makes me sad. I like realistic video games, but they still have to be "video game" enough that they are less real than real life. If Cyberpunk2077 was aiming for perfect realism, there would be no text dialogue choices floating in front of the character before they talk. I also find it even more unrealistic if I'm talking to a person in a game with a dialogue timer and just because the timer ran out, they can't hear what I have to say anymore? "Wait person I know what to say to you now!" "NOPE! I'm not listening anymore!" "But the enemy is about to raid out base! JUST LISTEN TO ME! YOU NEED TO HEAR THIS!" "NOPE! timer ran out LOL don't care" *reload save* :facepalm:
the timed dialogue sections are the best bit of RP in all of the Witcher 3.
They aren't quick time events to force you to react spam a button but to answer a question honestly.
for key scenes i hope they are back in CP 2077.
But the only option left is to react spam a button without reading any of the choices because there is no time to read them. You can't be honest if you couldn't read the options and choose honestly. :smart:
If there has to be a timer, then for the love of Gawd, have the exact dialog choices for us to choose from and not some condensed interpretation of what the character will actually say. It's not fair to hamper the player twice when it comes to dialog; pick one or the other.
I would just ask CDPR to make timers of all types and kinds 100% optional in the settings. I will absolutely without any hesitation go into my Cyberpunk2077 settings and disable all timers in the entire game in an instant. I really don't mind if this means that all dialogue options are basically pause screens for me, basically the characters just making faces and lifting their eyebrows and music playing in the background until I make my choice, even if I walk off and use the bathroom and leave the game running on that very screen for hours or days before I come back and say "I will now make my choice", Obviously I wont wait that long, but It's a good example of the freedom I would like to have. Under normal circumstances (Like if I did not need to use the bathroom) I would get into a dialogue and sit around for maybe 2-10 minutes and really think about my choices before selecting one. :shrug:
"Not making a decision does need to result in the game choosing for you"
But then it is a movie, not a game. :shrug:
 
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But the only option left is to react spam a button without reading any of the choices because there is no time to read them. You can't be honest if you couldn't read the options and choose honestly. :smart:

Is not their fault if you only have a 100 wpm reading speed, i had plenty of time.
 
Is not their fault if you only have a 100 wpm reading speed, i had plenty of time.
Sure, anyone can read anything very fast, BUT- understanding what was read in a high speed, can it be depended on? Can I really trust that the words I read were really those words, or did I misread them in some horrible confusing way? Rather than wonder and just trust that I did understand, I must read carefully the first time. This is of course, not possible. Timers are essentially a punishment to the player with absolutely no reward. = broken mechanic. Please read all my other posts in the thread, I explain why I think this.
 
...Timers are essentially a punishment to the player with absolutely no reward. = broken mechanic...

For you that's true, but not for everyone. I like timed dialog if it's done right, like I said before. It can give me the feeling that the choice is more important and trigger a feeling of intensity that never would be there if not for the timer. Sometimes it can even get you an rewarding feeling for picking the right choice in time. I think some can be good for the game, but if they can and want to make it an option that you can turn off, well I will not turn it of, but maybe some will, and it wont hurt my playthrough.

So yeah, you have an opinion and some have another, let's just leave it at that and we will wait and see what the game brings.
 
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