I just hope CDProjektRed includes the option so that everyone on both sides can be happy. I will disable timers in the settings SO fast that the game will be like "WHOA!!! SO FAST"
No, it isn't. By this definition Witcher 3 is a movie, which isn't true.
A movie cannot be interacted with at all; from a viewer's point of view it just runs through its script.
With timers, not making a choice could result in your character dying in some scenarios, sure, but having it be a constant thing would be downright ridiculous.
I mean... coming from someone who taught English, people do read at different speeds. Having timed dialogue could be really rough on some people. Not everyone who plays video games are fast readers, and that should be okay.
I agree with having the option to turn timed dialogues off if you feel like you need it.
Unless, perhaps, Red does a good job at testing how much time people would truly need to read and understand the options. That way you get the pressure of needing to pick quickly, but not the pressure of having to read quickly.
I agree with having the option to turn timed dialogues off if you feel like you need it.
Unless, perhaps, Red does a good job at testing how much time people would truly need to read and understand the options. That way you get the pressure of needing to pick quickly, but not the pressure of having to read quickly.
As long as the timers are somewhat generous with speed (like they were in TW3), I'm fine with mandatory timers. I remember the Ciri choice at the end of TW3 where Geralt has a timed response thing right before she goes. So glad I picked "good luck." The timed element really helps with the feeling of having difficulty of finding the right words in the moment ya know?
Well, okay we can establish that
Movie = no player input.
Video Game= constant player input into the game itself or the character depending on the game
but if the game can make choices for the player if they we're not able to react fast enough to a dialogue timer, it's going into hybrid interactive movie territory. (Quick Time events or Quick time Dialogue) like a game with some movie elements that are significant enough that they can't be completely dismissed as "technically not counting."
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That's very reasonable, but in 100% of all cases I personally (since I struggle a lot with this issue, even if I can read at a good speed I still suffer) would always choose to disable the dialogue timers in the options. But yea, I mean I really like your post though.
Not doing something inspite being able to is an input from the player as far as the game is concerned, whether it's an accident or deliberate.
I personally find that when I have more time to think, I'm much more likely to think of something wise and clear to say. usually when I have little or no time to say something, I freeze/lock up/panic and say something very stupid and embarrassing for me.
(I say the stupid and embarrassing thing) So I always try very hard to think before I say anything, especially in real life (but video games of course very much since I care about the immersion)
But that's the point. Sometimes in the moment you say the wrong thing. It's fun to live with those consequences. If you dont say anything, the conversation moves on without you.
I disagree, and I can explain exactly why.
Input = doing something
Intentionally choosing to do nothing on purpose as a decision= input as well
But the moment that the environment/game forces the player to be unable to make an input, it's not the players choice any more, because that choice has been taken away from them.
Real life example.
I'm driving my car and I'm going down the street at a reasonable but fairly slow speed to be careful, checking all my mirrors and making sure I watch the road and following all the safety guidelines. I'm choosing to drive as safely and carefully as possible. Suddenly, all the the cars in front of me drop a bunch of slippery oil slick on the street in front of my car, and coat 100% of all the street beyond my car with oil like in a video game or something. I want to react, I Want to do something, but there is an extremely short amount of street left before I am upon the oil slick, way too short of street to even slow down and stop before it's too late, even at the slow speed my car was going. There are also cars behind me, pushing me by proximity and boxing me in to guide me into the oil and they will slam into the back of my car and push me in anyway if I try to stop.
So from all angles, I want to make an input, but that choice is taken away from me. All I choose to do is drive carefully, but if everything around me is making sure that I have no choice, and there is nothing that I could do, technically, that was not my choice, and was not my input.
my "timer"/the street runs out and the cars push me in and I slip and slide and crash. Lack of input = / = input.
I'm good lawyer
(obviously this is just a joke, I am not a lawyer or doctor or proffessional of any kind)
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Some people also consider pimp slapping each other in the face as hard as they can "fun". Much like being stuck with the consequences of a dialog timer, it's frankly not for everyone, hence the original idea of an option.
That's the golden ticket, because at that moment, the game that is all about choice isn't about choice anymore. If the players ability to understand which choice is which- is impaired or blocked, then those choices are not choices anymore because the player doesn't know what they are choosing, since they could not read carefully and make a choice based on knowledge of what those choices were. Lack of knowledge = Lack of choice. Many cases of people in the USA being taken to court (many cases related to medicine/ doctor stuff) because people were forced to make choices between one thing they didn't understand VS another thing they didn't understand, and won because they could prove it was not their decision since they were not informed and no information was made available to them. Very interesting!
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Some people also consider pimp slapping each other in the face as hard as they can "fun". Much like being stuck with the consequences of a dialog timer, it's frankly not for everyone, hence the original idea of an option.
I just, I just, Oh wow, you made me visualize very weird things.edit: "hey bro" "what bro?" *SLAP!* "Bro what for!?" "uhuhu dude, because?" "Broooo not cool"
I disagree with this premise. People frequently have to make choices all the time with little of the information they would prefer to have. Not having knowledge does not prevent one from getting to/having to make a choice.
This is a tricky topic, and I find myself sympathizing heavily with @fridgeband's perspective.
On one hand, I personally enjoy timers as long as they aren't over-used. I do NOT think that, despite the "interactive scene system," every dialogue in the game should be timed, though. That would be bloody infuriating, especially if I'm unable to pause at some moments (busy household, like most adults, I imagine).
On the other hand, timers introduce a major disconnect between the player and the character. Does the character know something the player doesn't? Are they picking up on queues (due to their unique abilities) that the player does not? Is the character more intelligent than the player, and if so, shouldn't they be quicker thinkers? This is one of the advantages a PnP has over a video game. A good DM will let you roll to determine whether or not your character knows or can recall a piece of information, whereas in video games, it's entirely up to the player.
Like I said, tricky. I'm quite surprised to see some people who are normally very RPG/character-focused actually argue in favor of something that puts all the pressure on the player, not the character. You could argue that any dialogue does that, but the difference between untimed dialogue and the opposite is that the former could simulate character thought by giving the player as much time as they want to make a choice.
Now, if we aren't playing an RPG, I couldn't care less. As long as timers aren't overused, (unlike Telltale's more recent games, starting with stuff like their Jurassic Park adventure title) I'm OK with 'em.
On one hand, I personally enjoy timers as long as they aren't over-used. I do NOT think that, despite the "interactive scene system," every dialogue in the game should be timed, though. That would be bloody infuriating, especially if I'm unable to pause at some moments (busy household, like most adults, I imagine).
On the other hand, timers introduce a major disconnect between the player and the character. Does the character know something the player doesn't? Are they picking up on queues (due to their unique abilities) that the player does not? Is the character more intelligent than the player, and if so, shouldn't they be quicker thinkers? This is one of the advantages a PnP has over a video game. A good DM will let you roll to determine whether or not your character knows or can recall a piece of information, whereas in video games, it's entirely up to the player.
Like I said, tricky. I'm quite surprised to see some people who are normally very RPG/character-focused actually argue in favor of something that puts all the pressure on the player, not the character. You could argue that any dialogue does that, but the difference between untimed dialogue and the opposite is that the former could simulate character thought by giving the player as much time as they want to make a choice.
Now, if we aren't playing an RPG, I couldn't care less. As long as timers aren't overused, (unlike Telltale's more recent games, starting with stuff like their Jurassic Park adventure title) I'm OK with 'em.
I agree completely. Not having knowledge does not prevent someone from being forced to make a choice by someone or something else or even circumstances of a situation (like a dialogue timer), but being forced to make a choice is an invalid choice, and therefor not a choice.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/duress.html
https://www.upcounsel.com/signing-a-contract-under-protest
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I know right? I love dialogue in games if it's good (and if it's CDPR, it will be more than good, it will be AMAZING) but if I can't actually sit and slowly and carefully read all of that very rich and well made dialogue, and just take it all in and really deeply enjoy every last bit of it, then that's just a tragedy. It's like having all the food in the world to eat, but no spoon.
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I can see your point, and I understand your distaste for the feature. But I don't think this - what I said - is really a subject that warrants dispute.
The game expects two things from you: Choose a line or don't. Your inability to respond is of no concern to the game, it reacts as if you did choose (and incidentally, the timer is there precisely for the reason, that you would hurry your decision, or fail at making one). And it does the exact same thing with every player regardless of whether or not they can respond - being or not being able is part of the intended challenge there.
The point being: Your (or my) personal ability to react is irrelevant to the ultimate result of the feature, there will be one, and each of the two actions you are allowed (choose or not) is an input. Your job is to try and affect the result and inability to react does that, that's the very purpose of this particular feature.
Absolutely 100% on board with this. If your seeing them more than like once an hour on average, it's an issue IMO. I would prefer even less than that, but I don't think it would start annoying me until it was happening regularly.
I don't under stand where anyone gets the idea the timed choices where everywhere, there where...4? in the Witcher 3, total.
That's why they worked so well, because it informs by being different that this is important.
Which is all i expect to be in 2077 as well.
That's why they worked so well, because it informs by being different that this is important.
Which is all i expect to be in 2077 as well.
I just hope CDProjektRed includes the option so that everyone on both sides can be happy. I will disable timers in the settings SO fast that the game will be like "WHOA!!! SO FAST"
CDPR will NEVER be able to make everyone happy. It doesn't matter what they do. The sooner you grasp that, the better off you'll be.
But, on the argument for "just make this an option"... where do you draw the line? Every other thread here represents something people are unhappy about, requesting CDPR to make this and that an option to make them happy. So what makes your request any more important then the other ones? Why should CDPR cave to this request, and not the others? And if they make this an option, should they also make something else an option? Why or why not?
Also, say they implement timed dialogue without an option to turn that off, because that's how they envisioned the game. What's your argument for CDPR not making the game they want to make?
True. While I am in favor of certain (reasonable) amount of modifiablity of the perceivable experience, it’s not nor should be ”Options - The Game”.
If it doesn't warrant a dispute, then why do you try to dispute that I am wrong for care about what I care about?
A game, not The game (since we don't know what CDPR intends to make Cyberpunk2077 like) with a dialogue timer expects a few options based in choices, (Choose to do something, something, or something else as in "choices between one and another") as you say, A game with dialogue timers cares not for the other possibility, the possibility which is being forced, the possibility in question which is by definition- not a choice. This if I may use the same wording as you, is precisely the issue. The game (not necessarily CyberPunk2077, but simply any game with dialogue timers) Does not care for the players ability to choose in a situation such as this one. This would or could heavily contradict any game at all that is based in player choice, by taking the choice away from the player by preventing them from choosing. Additionally, Just because something is common or forced upon every single player that plays the game, does not make it a good feature or mechanic- It just makes it a very frequently occurring feature, regardless of whether it is good or bad.
How do you know there will be a feature like this? If you say that I assume you work for CDPR?
Please read my other posts in this thread in which I explain the logic of why a rushed and stressful choice under duress and with lack of knowledge is in fact not an actual choice.
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Respectfully, and in all honesty, even one dialogue timer or any timer of any kind even once in the entire game is a painful and immersion shattering experience for me. I hope that there is an option in the settings to disable all timers so that I can enjoy the game without having to worry and miss choices and reload my save game tens of times each encounter with a timer.
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Even if it's only 1 timer in the entire game, I must politely insist (or rather ask kindly to CDPR) that they include a setting to disable it. It would make a very large difference for me and my gameplay experience. It would be so much better if I'm not constantly stressed out and wondering when that timer will happen. I could never enjoy the story if I never know when it's going to pop up and painfully shatter my immersion
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