Please do something with the witcher trio

[StrykerxS77x]

I think basically everyone can agree that the witcher trio needs to be changed. They were used too much before because everyone wanted more thinning and there wasn't much in the game. After being nerfed multiple times they are terrible and no one uses them. Compared to portal the trio is insanely bad as a thinning tool.

So how should they be changed? I say play it safe and eliminate them as a thinning tool altogether. Witchers as an archetpe need help anyway so I say give them so cool abilities. They don't even need to synergize with each other as that can get out of control as we have seen before. I just want some good witchers to play. Please and thank you.

 

[SMiki55]

Sth like slightly worse Crones (because neutral)?

 

[Bruele]

Yes, likes crones.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Sth like slightly worse Crones (because neutral)?

Something like that could work. I kind of prefer just making them individual cards so that people don't ALWAYS use all three of them.

 

[SMiki55]

They can also be similar to the NG witcher trio (each one works better if the other ones are in hand)

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

I really like the Crones-idea. Maybe they could each have 3 options to do something, but these options are ranked and only become available, when you have played the other witchers.
Example:

Vesemir, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost an allied unit by 2
If Eskel or Lambert have been played before: Boost an allied unit by 3
If both have been played: Create and play an alchemy card.

Lambert, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Damage an enemy by 2
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Damage an enemy unit by 3
If both have been played: Create and play a bomb.

Eskel, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost self by 2
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Set base power to 3. Boost self by 2
If both have been played: Set base power to 3. Boost self by 2. Gain Resilience

So they can be used matchup dependent, you can high roll a mardroeme with Vesemir for example, if you need a reset. Or a
artifact removal with Lambert. But you can't have both, so you need to know your matchup. The idea also is: You have to be lucky to pull all three in a game, so the third option is a little overpowered.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I really like the Crones-idea. Maybe they could each have 3 options to do something, but these options are ranked and only become available, when you have played the other witchers.
Example:

Vesemir, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost an allied unit by 2
If Eskel or Lambert have been played before: Boost an allied unit by 3
If both have been played: Create and play an alchemy card.

Lambert, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Damage an enemy by 2
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Damage an enemy unit by 3
If both have been played: Create and play a bomb.

Eskel, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost self by 2
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Set base power to 3. Boost self by 2
If both have been played: Set base power to 3. Boost self by 2. Gain Resilience

So they can be used matchup dependent, you can high roll a mardroeme with Vesemir for example, if you need a reset. Or a
artifact removal with Lambert. But you can't have both, so you need to know your matchup. The idea also is: You have to be lucky to pull all three in a game, so the third option is a little overpowered.

Wow that's pretty cool.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I really like the Crones-idea. Maybe they could each have 3 options to do something, but these options are ranked and only become available, when you have played the other witchers.
Example:

Vesemir, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost an allied unit by 2
If Eskel or Lambert have been played before: Boost an allied unit by 3
If both have been played: Create and play an alchemy card.

Lambert, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Damage an enemy by 2
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Damage an enemy unit by 3
If both have been played: Create and play a bomb.

Eskel, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost self by 2
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Set base power to 3. Boost self by 2
If both have been played: Set base power to 3. Boost self by 2. Gain Resilience

So they can be used matchup dependent, you can high roll a mardroeme with Vesemir for example, if you need a reset. Or a
artifact removal with Lambert. But you can't have both, so you need to know your matchup. The idea also is: You have to be lucky to pull all three in a game, so the third option is a little overpowered.

I find that idea a bit too complicated. I'd rather prefer level 2 and 3 are just improvements of level 1.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

I find that idea a bit too complicated. I'd rather prefer level 2 and 3 are just improvements of level 1.

I know what you mean, but in some way, they are improvements: Vesemir most likely buffs (with e. g. swallow), Lambert attacks (with bombs) and Eskel gains durability.

I still guess, it's complicated, but it works thematically at least.

 

[Imm0rtaleflame]

pls no board interaction buff/damage (by a fixed val) so tireing, everything has it, it become boring, new cards no more of it plz.
lv 3 very cool
Eskel lv 2. too

 

[Kssysiek]

They could print a Keer Morhen Artifact for wolf school to interact with.
And then have reworked trio at like 5-6p filler gold level and reworked gloden trio at 8-9p.
Don't forget that old golden witchers are also terrible, destroy resilent unit btw.

 

[Sensimilius]

Well... if they made each one 3 power + 1 armor, gave them Veil and a very simple order ability like Lambert, give a unit bleeding (2), Vesemir, boost a unit by 1 and Eskel damage a unit by 1 (maybe give the exact same to Lambert). Then they'd be pretty good.

 

[DRK3]

The upcoming expansion is even gonna be witcher themed, i think its finally time to go back into the abyss of unplayable cards and fetch those 3 that were thrown there over a year and a half ago.

But its gonna be quite hard to buff them up, with the powercreep of 5 expansions combined, being 3pt each wont be enough, and if they go back to 4 it might be a bit too much because of the new synergies with witchers.

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

Just lower each of their Provision costs to 7 and increase the base strength of each unit to 3. That might not completely balance them, and a more interesting redesign would probably please a greater number of players; however, my suggestion requires almost no work at all from the developers, and it would allow the cards to be playable but definitely not broken.

 

[Messyr]

The fundamental problem lies with the way they were designed - a thinning package. It was a fair option back then, and one that causes problems design-wise today.
As all of the factions have more or less reliable bronze thinning options (some of them more than one to boot), having an additional 3 card thinning is just not something that isn't healthy anymore - thinning 4 extra cards using 3 packages, a total of 7 cards from your deck of 25 is just too much.

So either a total rework is in order, or they need to remain something undesirable and an actual sacrifice to play.

Post automatically merged: Nov 30, 2020

Just lower each of their Provision costs to 7 and increase the base strength of each unit to 3. That might not completely balance them, and a more interesting redesign would probably please a greater number of players; however, my suggestion requires almost no work at all from the developers, and it would allow the cards to be playable but definitely not broken.

Playable? Yes. Not broken? Questionable, but at least problematic with all the other thinning currently available ingame.

 

[InkognitoXI]

[...]
Playable? Yes. Not broken? Questionable, but at least problematic with all the other thinning currently available ingame.

The thing is that you want to thin low provision cards to get to your high provision cards, not thin your mid to high provision cards to be more likely to draw low provision cards.
At 3 str 7p the Witcher Trio would thin 3 7p cards for a 9 point play.
Do you really want to thin 3 cards that could have been a Saul, Raiding Fleet, Strigga, Crone, Werecat, Anna Strenger, Apiarian Phantom, The Beast, Dunca or Champions Charge ?
I would say right now 7p cards are actually usually rather good and thinning them for a mediocre play, just for the sake of thinning, is less than desirable.
Which is also why I would prefer a rework, as bad thinning they are just boring and undesirable.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

My idea to fit them into the new expansion, a little bit like the Crones:

Vesemir, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost an allied witcher by 2.
If Eskel or Lambert have been played before: Boost an allied unit by 3.
If both have been played: Create and play an alchemy card.

Lambert, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Damage an enemy witcher by 2.
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Damage an enemy unit by 3.
If both have been played: Create and play a bomb.

Eskel, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost self by 2, if you control a witcher.
If Vesemir or Lambert have been played before: Boost self by 3.
If both have been played: Boost self by 4. Gain Resilience.

This way, the first and second abilities are underwhelming, but the third one is quite good. So they are obviously not thinning anymore, but I think the abilities fit the characters and they are more playable than now. And still not overpowered, unless you combine them in the right decks with some witchers. (Like Vesemir in a Skellige Alchemy deck.)

 

[InkognitoXI]

My idea to fit them into the new expansion, a little bit like the Crones:

Vesemir, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost an allied witcher by 2.
If Eskel or Lambert have been played before: Boost an allied unit by 3.
If both have been played: Create and play an alchemy card.

Lambert, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Damage an enemy witcher by 2.
If Vesemir or Eskel have been played before: Damage an enemy unit by 3.
If both have been played: Create and play a bomb.

Eskel, 2 Points (6 Provisions)
Deploy: Boost self by 2, if you control a witcher.
If Vesemir or Lambert have been played before: Boost self by 3.
If both have been played: Boost self by 4. Gain Resilience.

This way, the first and second abilities are underwhelming, but the third one is quite good. So they are obviously not thinning anymore, but I think the abilities fit the characters and they are more playable than now. And still not overpowered, unless you combine them in the right decks with some witchers. (Like Vesemir in a Skellige Alchemy deck.)

So the first plays conditionally for 2/3 of the value of a 4p bronze.
The second plays for the value of an uncompetetive 4p bronze.
And the last plays as a solid 6p card (Vesemir), ok'ish 6p card (Lambert) or as a really good 6p card (Eskel).
I doubt that one would play 2 that are below the value of fillers for one's deck at 6p to get a slightly above average 6p card.
In fact I would say the first play more than 2 provisions below average play, so the last would have to play as a really good 10p card to make it worth it, which neither does.

So I would say that these reworks would (sadly) never see play in a serious deck.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I didn't want to make them too overpowered since they are neutrals...

 

[InkognitoXI]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I didn't want to make them too overpowered since they are neutrals...

That makes sense, however there still has to be an incentive.
I would say that at 4 base strength the power level would be about right.
The Witcher conditions are quite fitting, restricting to an archetype they fit in, so if you want to further restrict them you could add them to all abilities(, except maybe the first ones).