Please look at Harpies and Mulligan

[partci]

Please look at Harpies and Mulligan

So, all day yesterday and continuing today, starting R1 with at least 1 Harpy in my opening hand, very often 2 to mulligan, I mulligan them out, oh - hello Roach / Foglet / both of you, whatever => sometimes I can mulligan them out too, so, off to a greener pastures => use Nekker to multiply Harpies in R1 => R2: draw Harpy, despite at least 4 already out on the board in R1 (and/or the start of the R2) => R3: draw Harpy, despite at least 1 or 2 more out on the board => play Frightener: draw Harpy, OR => use Rally: draw Harpy (the only action that KINDA have an excuse, but still the percentage of the Harpies drawn is ridiculous).

Combine that with said Roach or Foglet, which 80% of the time also find their way BACK to mulligan themselves in my hand...

... please, fix this.

Either the mulligan system (a long stretch) or at least the way Harpies are getting drawn from your deck (always the top one first, please).

It's annoying and frustrating as hell.


Bless you.

 

[4RM3D]

There are two issues at play here:
1. The mulligan, which isn't working as you would expect
2. Having too many muster/thinning cards in your deck

1. The mulligan
CDPR has stated they are not happy with the way the mulligan is working now and are looking into changing this. For now check out this thread from some more info on how to mulligan (if you didn't already know).

2. Having too many muster/thinning cards
That's your own fault. Likewise with Northern Realms where you could otherwise run 3x Temerian Infantryman, 3x Dun Banner Light Cavalry, 3x Witchers and 3x something from Henselt in a 25 card deck. Every deck has a weakness and while the mulligan should be fixed, it shouldn't eliminate the risk of running multiple thinning cards.

When you are running a deck like this, you can't really use your 3rd mulligan in round 1 or your other mulligans in round 2 & 3, unless you've thinned your deck. Also, you shouldn't use cards like Frightener and FL because of the great risk of drawing thinning cards. One final note, the mulligan order is Harpy, then Roach/Foglet. Sometimes it's just better to keep one Harpy in your hand to not risk drawing Roach or Foglet.

PS. I have played a Dagon Consume deck myself and found it to be too inconsistent.
PSPS. Don't even try to use Crones. XD

 

[partci]

Hey, I know what the mulligan order is, it's just frustrating when the same goddamn cards return to my hand over and over again, no matter how many times I "blacklist" them and they've should already be gone anyway.

I am also aware of the FL issue.

I think drawing the top Harpy in your deck makes the most sense in this case. Mind you: this is not thinning per se - I put these cards AT THE BOTTOM of my deck, meaning I don't intend to actually draw them with my mulligans, but rather have them as a... let's say a supply.



PS When I started to play this deck, I tried using Arachas for more thinning... dropped them at my second game cause it was really preposterous.

 

[esra01]

Well you still didn't experience the true NR mulligan nightmare. Went to play the 40 NR card deck with tons of thinning card ( Infantry , witcher trio , Light cav , frost , BSC , roach , royal decree , WH ). First game in the day I drew all of my light cav and witcher trio + 1 infantry. So i panicked and mulligan all of the light cav and ended up with + 2 infantry and roach in my hand plus the opponent instantly plays avallach which drew 2 of my BSC.

But still that happens 1 out of 100 games and kinda a rare situation

 

[partci]

This card is so friggin broken! Besides the aforementioned problem with the pulling from the deck, it's "counter" is ridiculous and is working on a Paper-Rock-Scissors system, often pulling 3 Harpies out of the tin air for nothing, except pulling 9 to 12 points on the board depending if there are units on the opponent's side (just got 3 pulled at me from a single summoned Savage Bear) and with the Woodland Spirit shenanigans it goes to even ridiculous heights.

Maybe this COUNTER should work only when there is already a Harpy on the board, meaning - you want a harpy counter? Sure: play a Harpy from your hand to start it's counter. Familiar to the Nekker's mechanic.

This right now is broken AND bugged as hell. For two straight months.

 

[BornBoring]

Monsters without Harpies would be really, really bad atm. I actually agree that Harpies need to be changed, but Monsters in general need some small buffs.

 

[mfool123]

3 harpies, 1 roach, and a foglot shouldn't be much of an issue most of the time. It's when you start ur hand off with 3 harpies and no golds (or onlwy renew) because in round one you can't thin your deck properly and so everything catches back up with you including the mulligan. Lots of people are playing monsters ATM, me included, and I've literally just forfeiting 3 times in 50 matches.

 

[Exoclyps]

Well, one big step in the right direction would be to fix the counter. Count down on the top one in the deck as well to make sure multiple harpies are pulled at once.

Would increase consistently and reduce foul tempo.

 

[Esmer]

3 harpies, 1 roach, and a foglot shouldn't be much of an issue most of the time. It's when you start ur hand off with 3 harpies and no golds (or onlwy renew) because in round one you can't thin your deck properly and so everything catches back up with you including the mulligan. Lots of people are playing monsters ATM, me included, and I've literally just forfeiting 3 times in 50 matches.

So you want to play 20+ points Woodland Spirit twice in a match and not get screwed by a mulligan? Hopefully that won't happen.

Besides, if mulligan is such an issue, why 99% of monster decks have Woodland Spirit?

 

[4RM3D]

Besides, if mulligan is such an issue, why 99% of monster decks have Woodland Spirit?

The mulligan is an issue and should be fixed regardless of Woodland Spirit. Vice versa; Woodland Spirit is an issue and should be fixed regardless of the mulligan. They just happen to coincide in this case. It's not that Woodland Spirit is too strong, it's that the Monster faction has nothing else which has the same impact as that particular gold card.

 

[mfool123]

So you want to play 20+ points Woodland Spirit twice in a match and not get screwed by a mulligan? Hopefully that won't happen.

Besides, if mulligan is such an issue, why 99% of monster decks have Woodland Spirit?

Woodland spirit is the strongest monster card and maybe even the strongest gold card in the game specially when you can use it twice. It thins your deck as well of many cards you never want in ur hand. I don't really think mulligan is this huge problem, but I do think it needs some improvements. The coin flip on the other hand (off topic) is the #1 thing in the game that needs a solution for because when I go second with monsters my chance of winning increases by 20%.

 

[Esmer]

The mulligan is an issue and should be fixed regardless of Woodland Spirit. Vice versa; Woodland Spirit is an issue and should be fixed regardless of the mulligan. They just happen to coincide in this case. It's not that Woodland Spirit is too strong, it's that the Monster faction has nothing else which has the same impact as that particular gold card.

That's exactly what I was saying: Woodland Spirit is so strong that it is used in 99% decks even despite mulligan issues. I also agree that both mulligan and Spirit should be fixed.

But here's the deal: no other faction has a card that thins your deck by 3 cards and puts out 19 strength on an empty table while also potentially damaging the opponent for 3 points. So I find it ridiculous that monster players complain about that. My point right now is that broken mulligan at least partly balances the card and prevents it from being absolutely OP.

Moreover, Woodland Spirit is also tied to the coin flip issue. Every time monsters play second, they usually go +2 cards, which we all know is crucial to win the 3rd round.

 

[4RM3D]

Esmer

But you are forgetting that while Monsters might have a strong opening, they don't have any strong finishers, unlike the other factions. And strong finishers still usually win from strong openers.

 

[Esmer]

Seriously? Is renewing Woodland Spirit not a good finisher? Especially paired with Yennifer or Commanders Horn.

According to GwentUP statistics (and they have a lot of data), up to 4250 MMR Dagon is the best leader after Bran. And guess which cards are used by Dagon?

 

[4RM3D]

Esmer

Renew on Woodland Spirit is 12 strength (if you still have a Foglet). This can be more if your fog hits a unit, but in the last round that isn't guaranteed. Also, if you used a(nother) Nekker Warrior on a Harpy, you might get another Harpy out. That requires a combo build up which also isn't certain.

This means that a Renewed Woodland Spirit on it's own isn't strong. And you can't just say, but when used with ANOTHER gold card, like you also have two gold cards in your hand. Furthermore, having 2 gold cards should actually mean something. NR with Shani and Dijkstra can swing for some pretty insane values. NG playing Rainfarn into Joachim can also swing for 32 points. In the end game, Dagon Swarm is still the weakest (of the strongest decks). Anyhow, Woodland Spirit + Horn is pretty good, if you can pull it off.