Please make the game harder, specially bosses

+
Hello !

I am writing this here hoping that the developpers would read it. I think that Cyberpunk is a little bit too easy, even on the hardest difficulty. Could we have an even higher difficulty ? More ennemies with better cyberware and capabilities would be a lot of fun.

Also, I think that bosses were quiter underwhelming, particularly Oda and Adam Smasher (Smasher should be way scarier, give him a Sandevistan !).

Bonus : Adam Smasher in Edgerunners VS Cyberpunk 2077

Best,
 
While I do agree with this, I also see a lot of requests for new game + which raises some questions.

1. If the game isn't hard enough why are ppl asking for an option to make it even easier?

2. Is it that the game isn't hard or is it that ppl search for the most powerful guns early in the game and then complain that it's too easy?

I do agree the bosses should use a wider variety of cyberware. Adam Smasher specifically was just brute strength and not much else. The boss fights weren't really that memorable but if we're being honest CDPR has never really had boss fights that blow you away in any of their games
 
While I do agree with this, I also see a lot of requests for new game + which raises some questions.

1. If the game isn't hard enough why are ppl asking for an option to make it even easier?

2. Is it that the game isn't hard or is it that ppl search for the most powerful guns early in the game and then complain that it's too easy?

I do agree the bosses should use a wider variety of cyberware. Adam Smasher specifically was just brute strength and not much else. The boss fights weren't really that memorable but if we're being honest CDPR has never really had boss fights that blow you away in any of their games
because the bosses are plot devices. if people want actual boss fights, there are plenty of souls like and also monster hunter like games. there werent even any interesting boss fights in horizon zero dawn.

they would have to severely limit skill points. even if they made enemies use more tools anyone can bypass it with stealth or a well built skill set or weapons.
 
well sadly I had fixed those issues with mods to make the game challenge and fair
And I will address some issues that make the game too easy and how the mods fix it

TOO MANY HEALTH ITEM DROPS, TOO LESS STRATEGIC USE OF HEALING
even in harder difficulties, I have more than 50+ healing items in spare even though I spamming use them lavishly
as well as ammo I never have to craft or buy them since the loot gives it too much

and the game allows players to spam healing to full health even the common healing can restore HP to full health in no time making the difference between common and rarer variants become only just a little inconvenient in usage

SO HOW THE MODS FIXED THAT ISSUE
- reduce the healing drop chances significantly so players would stand on tippy toes sometimes when entering a fight unprepared
and players have to visit drugstores more often and crafting become a necessity as well to get ready before a fight

-add cooldown of using health items
now there're a lot of differences between 40%HP common health items and 80%HP rare health variants
players can't just spam their way to full health since there's a cooldown before they can use health items again
So the better variants of a drug become mandatory in a harder fight to replenish lost health quickly or else they have to be a sitting duck for too long waiting to heal

Which put players on the edge and need to learn to position themself in a combat area since they can't become a bullet sponge by spamming health kits in front of guns anymore


HARDER ENEMIES ARE JUST THE SAME JUST BECOME BULLET SPONGES
before the mods, enemies don't have too much of a challenge but only have bigger a health bar and do more damage and shoot the butt-load of ammo to the same enemy for a dozen minutes that's hard alright, but is it fun? , is it fair?
that's another thing

not just that enemies just not having too many varieties of attacking that players have to deal with

SO HOW THE MODS FIXED THAT ISSUE
-harder enemy have quite more HP than an easier one, but not as too much to become a bullet sponge, and what is the modder to compensate for that?

HEALING, enemies often use healing items to heal themself up to fight the players again
with not too much HP but they can heal themself, players that know how to do things would kill them quickly one by one
So the strategy to deal with a group of harder enemies is to focusing kill since the injured opponent would just back off and heal up(not all the time mod working tho sometimes they just heal themself in front of the gun barrel to fight again),
the harder enemy more times they can heal themself

CALLING FOR BACK UP, even the enemies become kinda weaker but they can compensate for that with numbers
when the stealth fails a firefight the whole horde of the enemy becomes harder as they will call for back up to join the fight
So the player needs to be quick and kill the one who made a call before the reinforcement picks up the HOLOCALL

NETRUNNING, more enemies Netrunner who fight against the players and more enhanced abilities for them to use
now everything players could throw at them, they have the same thing to throw back at us
thank the god of the nexus at least they have really long uploading hack time so if the player's good enough they can kill them before it completes to cancel the hacks

but easier said than done since they always hide behind the enemy line
not to talk about they can heal up if they do not die yet

MORE DRONE AND DROID AND ENEMIES ON THE CENTAURS (damn I wish players could wear it too), your typical hack and weapons may be effective on human enemies but these mech enemies have different weaknesses so players have to adapt and change tactics whenever they appear on the fight

just these little tweaking not just make the game challenge and fair
also, it gives combat more depth to it

of course, they are easier to kill due to lower HP and dealing less damage but if fail to do it quickly the firefight would escalate the heat real quick
they are still capable of killing players as quick as players kill them

the players have to plan and choose which priority, kill the annoying netrunner who cast debuff and blindness along with other cyber magic they have
or the enemies that are hard to kill who trying to heal up, or the ones that calling for backup on the phone that maybe the chance of more netrunner and more tougher enemies to join the fight


but to the Bosses, it's quite tricky since the issue can't be done on them alone but to redesign the whole fight or else just the same old bullet sponges and unfair damage output
or just lower them and make them be able to heal up more quicker and more often but the issue is still not so different
 
I can't disagree with this. The game is too easy. It's a combination of a few things but what strikes me as the most obvious proof it's too easy is the fact that even on very hard, I don't die because the enemies fought well. I die because I was reckless.

Saying this game isn't Dark Souls or CDPR isn't known for great enemies/boss is a cop out. No one is asking for the game to become a souls-like game or anything close to it (or very, very few). Very hard should be very hard. That's all there is to this argument. Very hard should challenge you. In an RPG it should also mean that your build has to be thought out. As it stands, V quickly becomes a killing machine capable of mowing down dozens of enemies even with a hastily thrown together build.

Mods shouldn't have to be the answer for this either as there are plenty on consoles who have the same criticism.

CDPR obviously agrees as they have spent time improving the AI since release and enemies are definitely better than they were in TW3 but it's still disappointingly easy.
 
CDPR obviously agrees as they have spent time improving the AI since release and enemies are definitely better than they were in TW3 but it's still disappointingly easy.
I think it depend on the build. Before, mostly stealth character and "very low" BODY (5 without any perk invest in it), in open combat I died quite easily (enemies were able to one shot me, even at level 50).
But in my current playthrough, BODY 20, all the "health" related cyberwares installed, health regen perks,... I'm literally unstoppable... :(
 
I think it depend on the build. Before, mostly stealth character and "very low" BODY (5 without any perk invest in it), in open combat I died quite easily (enemies were able to one shot me, even at level 50).

But see, that falls squarely within recklessness. If you play even a tiny bit to your character's strength, then there is no challenge. Stealth is too easy because enemies take so long to detect you and have absolutely no reactions to your own actions. You can decimate 29 out of 30 enemies and this last, lone, enemy will be completely oblivious and keep on going around the same patrol route.

It's almost comedic.

But in my current playthrough, BODY 20, all the "health" related cyberwares installed, health regen perks,... I'm literally unstoppable... :(

Which shouldn't even be possible. That's the gist of most of these "the game is too easy" discussion. At no point should you be able to just steamroll enemies on very hard. It's a criticism I'd level at every CDPR games but I don't subscribe to the idea of "it's always been that way so leave it be". It should be brought up and criticized for what it is and hopefully CDPR gets better at this in due time.
 
But see, that falls squarely within recklessness. If you play even a tiny bit to your character's strength, then there is no challenge. Stealth is too easy because enemies take so long to detect you and have absolutely no reactions to your own actions. You can decimate 29 out of 30 enemies and this last, lone, enemy will be completely oblivious and keep on going around the same patrol route.

It's almost comedic.
I agree they have to work more on AI :)
But it was most to underline that with my stealth characters, when I failed my stealth and if I faced more than 2 or 3 enemies, the only solution was generally to run away (or die quickly). Even spaming health items wasn't enough to save my butt... Too much damages and too low health.
Which shouldn't even be possible. That's the gist of most of these "the game is too easy" discussion. At no point should you be able to just steamroll enemies on very hard. It's a criticism I'd level at every CDPR games but I don't subscribe to the idea of "it's always been that way so leave it be". It should be brought up and criticized for what it is and hopefully CDPR gets better at this in due time.
With "BODY builds", the "issue" is the health regen and cyberwares.
I can avoid death twice in a row (Second Heart and Biomonitor).
Then generally enemies can't deal enough damages to counter the health regen (the health is regenerated faster than the damage that enemies can deal...).

In short, currently, I never uses health items, never. Even by increasing enemies health pool, it won't change anything (it would just take longer to kill them). CDPR can also increase the damages that enemies deal, but with my previous stealth builds, it would mean "instant death" at each bullet... So not that easy :)
 
I can't disagree with this. The game is too easy. It's a combination of a few things but what strikes me as the most obvious proof it's too easy is the fact that even on very hard, I don't die because the enemies fought well. I die because I was reckless.

Saying this game isn't Dark Souls or CDPR isn't known for great enemies/boss is a cop out. No one is asking for the game to become a souls-like game or anything close to it (or very, very few). Very hard should be very hard. That's all there is to this argument. Very hard should challenge you. In an RPG it should also mean that your build has to be thought out. As it stands, V quickly becomes a killing machine capable of mowing down dozens of enemies even with a hastily thrown together build.

Mods shouldn't have to be the answer for this either as there are plenty on consoles who have the same criticism.

CDPR obviously agrees as they have spent time improving the AI since release and enemies are definitely better than they were in TW3 but it's still disappointingly easy.

yeah I agree on it that it should be a tweak done by the DEV team to the game itself
since the modder prove that they could adjust some tweaking some subtle detail but cause a hugely different experience that is not just harder but challenging and fair too

that means this issue is something that could be fixed by the CDPR as well
 
I think a lot depends on your built.

I have a chaos pistol build. No stealth, just go in and shoot,

I sell disassemble first aid kids now which are now blue or sell them, I craft myself blue bounce.

yeah it's reckless, yeah it's fun, I do a lot with line of sight to make things easier to cut down the number of people in LoS

This is on v-hard, at the end of it after looting I had used 50 bullets. I had to switch guns to deal with the last one although I could have made his cyberware malfunction if I had not been using a sande. (canvas borked but this is my gameplay experience at lvl 25)

 
I agree they have to work more on AI :)
But it was most to underline that with my stealth characters, when I failed my stealth and if I faced more than 2 or 3 enemies, the only solution was generally to run away (or die quickly). Even spaming health items wasn't enough to save my butt... Too much damages and too low health.

And mine was to underline how flawed stealth is. Failing at a stealth build is rather hard because of how easy it is, it usually means you've been reckless in your approach.

With "BODY builds", the "issue" is the health regen and cyberwares.
I can avoid death twice in a row (Second Heart and Biomonitor).
Then generally enemies can't deal enough damages to counter the health regen (the health is regenerated faster than the damage that enemies can deal...).

In short, currently, I never uses health items, never. Even by increasing enemies health pool, it won't change anything (it would just take longer to kill them). CDPR can also increase the damages that enemies deal, but with my previous stealth builds, it would mean "instant death" at each bullet... So not that easy :)

1 shot kill =/= hard.

No one wants one shot kills or bullet sponges. That's the lazy way of going about it. Simply raising enemies stats so they annihilate the player is a horrible way of challenging players. As realistic as 1 shot kills are, they're not fun.

It's certainly a careful balancing act between being playable, fun and challenging. The answer is never to make enemies incredibly tough or increase their damage to absurd degrees. The answer lies in how they act and their own abilities. Things like enemies literally dodging your bullets as they make their approach to poke you with their melee weapons are a great example of lore-friendly enemies abilities that create a challenge. It forces you to think on your feet and adapt to the battlefield. Or it would, if the enemies with guns hanging back weren't so useless.

Things like snipers actually making use of their weapons penetrative capabilities are great. Stops you from staying in one spot and forces you to adapt. Though, again, they're a threat until you realize the others guys are mostly useless.

There are certainly some enemies that manage to create a bit of a challenge but it's almost negated by the fact everyone else around them is useless.

As far as stealth goes, enemies should react better to what's happening. In a world where everyone has a built-in phone in their head, enemy patrols shouldn't be operating in a vacuum. They should be reacting to 5 of them disappearing. Sometimes they're literally having a conversation when you grab one of them and the other other just... stops. "would you look at that, Steve was in the middle of a sentence and stopped without finishing and I can't see him anymore. Oh well". In 2022, I have a hard time accepting that we still have enemy patrols reacting to finding a body by everyone just going off in different directions looking for the intruder only to be picked off one by one. Have them pair up or regroup and defend, y'know, something that makes sense when defending against an unknown intruder/aggressor. Right now it's B horror movie level of stupid.

Again, I'm aware it's not something CDPR excels at but it doesn't mean it should be ignored. I also don't expect this to change in any significant way with CP2077 but I'd like to see better with the next game.
 
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And mine was to underline how flawed stealth is. Failing at a stealth build is rather hard because of how easy it is, it usually means you've been reckless in your approach.



1 shot kill =/= hard.

No one wants one shot kills or bullet sponges. That's the lazy way of going about it. Simply raising enemies stats so they annihilate the player is a horrible way of challenging players. As realistic as 1 shot kills are, they're not fun.

It's certainly a careful balancing act between being playable, fun and challenging. The answer is never to make enemies incredibly tough or increase their damage to absurd degrees. The answer lies in how they act and their own abilities. Things like enemies literally dodging your bullets as they make their approach to poke you with their melee weapons are a great example of lore-friendly enemies abilities that create a challenge. It forces you to think on your feet and adapt to the battlefield. Or it would, if the enemies with guns hanging back weren't so useless.

Things like snipers actually making use of their weapons penetrative capabilities are great. Stops you from staying in one spot and forces you to adapt. Though, again, they're a threat until you realize the others guys are mostly useless.

There are certainly some enemies that manage to create a bit of a challenge but it's almost negated by the fact everyone else around them is useless.

As far as stealth goes, enemies should react better to what's happening. In a world where everyone has a built-in phone in their head, enemy patrols shouldn't be operating in a vacuum. They should be reacting to 5 of them disappearing. Sometimes they're literally having a conversation when you grab one of them and the other other just... stops. "would you look at that, Steve was in the middle of a sentence and stopped without finishing and I can't see him anymore. Oh well". In 2022, I have a hard time accepting that we still have enemy patrols reacting to finding a body by everyone just going off in different directions looking for the intruder only to be picked off one by one. Have them pair up or regroup and defend, y'know, something that makes sense when defending against an unknown intruder/aggressor. Right now it's B horror movie level of stupid.

Again, I'm aware it's not something CDPR excels at but it doesn't mean it should be ignored. I also don't expect this to change in any significant way with CP2077 but I'd like to see better with the next game.
I don't speak how stealth work (which I agree need some work^^) :)
It's just point out how "weak" is stealth build and how "strong" is body build. In the current state of the game, I'm very weak with my stealth and can easily die with one bullet in open combat by a random enemy. But with my body build, I'm unstoppable and barely can't die.
Let's take an example, assaulting wraiths hideout with Panam (no stealth allowed), with stealth build, it's damn difficult... With body build, piece of cake.

So ajusting difficulty for both could be "challenging"', unlike in TW3 where the possible "builds" are not that different.
 
I think a lot depends on your built.

I have a chaos pistol build. No stealth, just go in and shoot,

I sell disassemble first aid kids now which are now blue or sell them, I craft myself blue bounce.

yeah it's reckless, yeah it's fun, I do a lot with line of sight to make things easier to cut down the number of people in LoS

This is on v-hard, at the end of it after looting I had used 50 bullets. I had to switch guns to deal with the last one although I could have made his cyberware malfunction if I had not been using a sande. (canvas borked but this is my gameplay experience at lvl 25)


To be fair, they're also all very low threat to you in that video. They're not supposed to be much of a challenge to you at that point. Pretty much every build could go into that recklessly and demolish them.

Still, I agree recklessness can be fun but it shouldn't be possible for it to be a possible answer to any and every situation.
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I don't speak how stealth work (which I agree need some work^^) :)
It's just point out how "weak" is stealth build and how "strong" is body build.
So ajusting difficulty for both could be "challenging"', unlike in TW3 where the possible "builds" are not that different.

You're missing the point.

How "weak" a stealth build is in open combat compared to a body build is completely irrelevant. It should go without saying that with a stealth build, you shouldn't really be in open combat. That's the issue it's far too easy to stay out of open combat. A stealth build makes stealth too easy, while a body build makes combat too easy.

They're both overpowered in their respective field. That's the issue. Again, if you play to your build's strength just a tiiiiny bit, you'll breeze through the game. Which shouldn't happen on very hard.

Meanwhile, an intel build is just plain overpowered. A jack of all trade won't perform as well as any of them in their respective field but will still be godlike by the time you reach 30.
 
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because the bosses are plot devices. if people want actual boss fights, there are plenty of souls like and also monster hunter like games. there werent even any interesting boss fights in horizon zero dawn.

they would have to severely limit skill points. even if they made enemies use more tools anyone can bypass it with stealth or a well built skill set or weapons.
I think they should, sometimes less is more. They made the skill tree far too accessible and open. Certain skills should be tied to life paths and using some weapons to their full extent should also have been tied to life path.

That or make the bosses smarter. You're right, the bosses are plot devices but that doesn't mean they need to be easy. The machine bosses in Horizon couldn't just be easily killed in stealth playthrough or melee. Also not as quickly. You can kill Adam Smasher in under 1 min which isn't great for the build up that had him looking like a challenge
 
How "weak" a stealth build is in open combat compared to a body build is completely irrelevant. It should go without saying that with a stealth build, you shouldn't really be in open combat. That's the issue it's far too easy to stay out of open combat. A stealth build makes stealth too easy, while a body build makes combat too easy.
So yeah, ajusting difficulty on all builds, could be challenging. If CDPR make enemies stronger for "strong" builds and make stealth more difficult (easier to fail and enter in combat). It mean that if you fail your stealth, you're dead, no matter what (which is pretty much the case).
But they have to ajust difficulty anyway, for now they "try" at least (but I never said that is was good as it is now, just maybe not easy to achieve)

Like :
- add a cooldown on health items... Useless, knowning I don't need to use health item in my current build (natural regen is enough).
- more health point to enemies... also useless with my current build. It would just take a bit longer to be killed, nothing more.
 
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To be fair, they're also all very low threat to you in that video. They're not supposed to be much of a challenge to you at that point. Pretty much every build could go into that recklessly and demolish them.

Still, I agree recklessness can be fun but it shouldn't be possible for it to be a possible answer to any and every situation.
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You're missing the point.

How "weak" a stealth build is in open combat compared to a body build is completely irrelevant. It should go without saying that with a stealth build, you shouldn't really be in open combat. That's the issue it's far too easy to stay out of open combat. A stealth build makes stealth too easy, while a body build makes combat too easy.

They're both overpowered in their respective field. That's the issue. Again, if you play to your build's strength just a tiiiiny bit, you'll breeze through the game. Which shouldn't happen on very hard.

Meanwhile, an intel build is just plain overpowered. A jack of all trade won't perform as well as any of them in their respective field but will still be godlike by the time you reach 30.
I think the devs are basically saying "if you want to play hard, you can restrain yourself".

The game can be hard if you decide to not use epic or greater items. I guess it's just a question of whether we want forced limits or to impose limits on our build.
 
So yeah, ajusting difficulty on all builds, could be challenging. If CDPR make enemies stronger for "strong" builds and make stealth more difficult (easier to fail and enter in combat). It mean that if you fail your stealth, you're dead, no matter what (which is pretty much the case).
But they have to ajust difficulty anyway, for now they "try" at least.

Oh it definitely would be challenging, it is a careful balancing act, but they already had some great ideas. Like the bullet dodging enemies and snipers making use of tech weaponry's penetrative qualities. In both cases it's balanced too. Enemies can't dodge forever, they can't dodge grenades, smart weapons will get through most of the time, etc. They have weaknesses.

Snipers have a laser sight. You will see that a sniper is gunning for you before it happens. It is up to you to adapt. They're a fairly immobile target. Take them out quickly.

Stealth... well stealth has been done to remarkable degrees before so it's not like there aren't winning formulas out there they can draw inspiration from. And, yes, on very hard, if you fail at stealth you should be punished harshly if you have a stealth build. Again, the issue right now is that failing at stealth means you're being reckless. Recklessness is the very antithesis of stealth builds. There is no way to fail at stealth if you try just a tiiiiny bit. The fact it currently is punished harshly is irrelevant to this argument. The argument is that it is too easy to not get caught.

The game can be hard if you decide to not use epic or greater items. I guess it's just a question of whether we want forced limits or to impose limits on our build.

Just like mods, artificially limiting yourself shouldn't be the answer. You should be able to make use of everything the game offers and still be challenged on very hard.
 
Stealth... well stealth has been done to remarkable degrees before so it's not like there aren't winning formulas out there. And, yes, on very hard, if you fail at stealth you should be punished harshly if you have a stealth build. Again, the issue right now is that failing at stealth means you're being reckless. Recklessness is the very antithesis of stealth builds. There is no way to fail at stealth if you try just a tiiiiny bit. The fact it currently is punished harshly is irrelevant to this argument. The argument is that it is too easy to not get caught
Indeed I agree that in stealth, it's difficult to fail (and it "require" some rework). But there are quests in which you can't use stealth (Panam revange on Nash is a good example. It's open fight right away when you get out of the car and almost no cover). It would be almost impossible if stealth builds are ignored when rebalancing open combat :)
During this quest, with my "stealth build" (level 50), I died few times... One shot by nash (widow maker), one shot by the sniper, one shot by a damn grenade... and so on. But with my current builg, very easy^^
 
Hello !

I am writing this here hoping that the developpers would read it. I think that Cyberpunk is a little bit too easy, even on the hardest difficulty. Could we have an even higher difficulty ? More ennemies with better cyberware and capabilities would be a lot of fun.

Also, I think that bosses were quiter underwhelming, particularly Oda and Adam Smasher (Smasher should be way scarier, give him a Sandevistan !).

Bonus : Adam Smasher in Edgerunners VS Cyberpunk 2077

Best,
I think problem is when as proof of some problem, you post some memish youtube video. On very hard, reaper ending, sub level 50, Smasher is pretty hard, especially whhen you play "fun" build. Cyberpunk's gameplay is kinda sandboxish, you can play way you want to play, "balancing" game only will lead to some meta game, and will suck fun out of hundreds of playstyles. It's kinda funny how can someone make video about "best" build in CP2077. Smasher always will be easy on easy difficulty.
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Indeed I agree that in stealth, it's difficult to fail (and it "require" some rework). But there are quests in which you can't use stealth (Panam revange on Nash is a good example. It's open fight right away when you get out of the car and almost no cover). It would be almost impossible if stealth builds are ignored when rebalancing open combat :)
During this quest, with my "stealth build" (level 50), I died few times... One shot by nash (widow maker), one shot by the sniper, one shot by a damn grenade... and so on But with my current builg, very easy^^
Smasher can one-shot player with his rocket-barrage on very hard.
 
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