Please Nerf the Nilfgaard - it's way too imbalanced

[Timmy_Sully]

this faction is way disbalanced here are the reasons:
- their units are way too cheap for their abilities, so cheap, some players play 10 (!!!) tactics cards in a starting deck, with no units at all. all they do is just play your units.
- their tactics and some unit cards let them draw and play 3 (!!!) cards sometimes, while you just pull 1 card... that's just ridiculous. you can't beat someone when he plays 3 cards versus your single one...
- some of their 8 provision cards can pull ANY power/provision card from your entire deck and play it... for how cheap their cards are, they will always outplay you because they are pulling your strongest cards, all day long
- with more than 12 tactics cards in their deck, i see them all the time seizing my units with power of 6 with leader abilities... and then restore his leader abilities with 2 other cards, because the restore cards are so cheap... it may even have been 3 times he restored his leader abilities, because of his tactics cards... it's just ridiculous how imbalanced this faction is...
- people who have seen this imbalance are all switching to this Nilfgaard faction because it doesn't take much effort to win, pretty much any opponent from other factions...
- it's literally like every 2 out of 3 opponents i meet are Nilfgaard... guess why? it's just abuse now... and guess what.. i lose like 8 out of 10 matches every time to Nilfgaard... and don't get me wrong, i'm no retard, i have a very strong Monster deck... but it's just no match to the imbalanced Nilfgaard... all they do is Lock, Poison, Lock, Poison, Spawn and Play your strongest Cards, Reuse and reuse their Leader abilities, Seize Units, Tactics, Tactics, Tactics... you just can't do anything to them with any other faction... well, i haven't tried Syndicate faction, but i suspect same will happen to them too.... when i do win, it's because i got lucky, i got a good hand, the opponent got a sh*tty hand, or he just dumbed out and made couple of mistakes and it cost him a game...
Please NERF the Nilfgaard.. i came here because i'm so frustrated with this abuse of that way OP imbalanced faction... PLEASE do something...
i will never give them GG because they are abusing this imbalance!

 

[Pacifixer]

NG is not as strong as you think
Bribery is broken and needs some nerf, it has been like this for quite some time, and the interaction between Imperial Formation and Damian or Skellen is also pretty nuts, but apart from that NG is mostly OK.
There are some other factions/decks that are way more overpowered than anything NG can pull off - SK Second Wind Greatswords with its 50+ point finisher; or ST Precision Strike Harmony with its ridiculous point output and control.

 

[mazeebra]

- their units are way too cheap for their abilities, so cheap, some players play 10 (!!!) tactics cards in a starting deck, with no units at all. all they do is just play your units.
- their tactics and some unit cards let them draw and play 3 (!!!) cards sometimes, while you just pull 1 card... that's just ridiculous. you can't beat someone when he plays 3 cards versus your single one...
- some of their 8 provision cards can pull ANY power/provision card from your entire deck and play it... for how cheap their cards are, they will always outplay you because they are pulling your strongest cards, all day long
- with more than 10 tactics cards in their deck, i've seen one guy seize my units with power of 7 wiith his leader abilities... and then restore his leader abilities with 2 other cards, because the restore cards are so cheap... it may even have been 3 times he restored his leader abilities, because of his tactics cards... it's just ridiculous how imbalanced this faction is...

You are right, but you are also wrong. I played Nilfgaard for a long time, and I don't make those broken meta decks, I use all kind of Nilfgaard decks, and I can tell you, with normal use, none of the Nilfgaard units are too cheap for what they do.

However, there are about 4-5 cards that are bad, and causes ALL the things you mention. 1 leader renew for 11 provisions and no guarantee is OK, but 2 and 3 etc, is not ok. The problem is GOLD REPLAY. This causes alot of issues.
Many people use this in combination with a card that is actually broken: Bribery.. People make jokes about this card "play the best unit from your opponents deck" && "do it again" & "again".
LOW Unit decks is not a normal Nilfgaard deck, and not an exclusive problem with Nilfgaard. The problem is even worse with Syndicate crime card decks.

Those things you mention, they are actually problems, yes. But Nilfgaard as a faction is not a problem.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2020

ST Precision Strike Harmony with its ridiculous point output and control.

Skellige was overpowered for a long time and seemed to have been the favourite faction of the developers. But they have since been overtaken by Scoia'Tael, which now seems to be the most overpowered faction, and also seems to have become the favoured faction of the devs.

 

[Timmy_Sully]

You are right, but you are also wrong. I played Nilfgaard for a long time, and I don't make those broken meta decks, I use all kind of Nilfgaard decks, and I can tell you, with normal use, none of the Nilfgaard units are too cheap for what they do.

However, there are about 4-5 cards that are bad, and causes ALL the things you mention. 1 leader renew for 11 provisions and no guarantee is OK, but 2 and 3 etc, is not ok. The problem is GOLD REPLAY. This causes alot of issues.
Many people use this in combination with a card that is actually broken: Bribery.. People make jokes about this card "play the best unit from your opponents deck" && "do it again" & "again".
LOW Unit decks is not a normal Nilfgaard deck, and not an exclusive problem with Nilfgaard. The problem is even worse with Syndicate crime card decks.

Those things you mention, they are actually problems, yes. But Nilfgaard as a faction is not a problem.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2020

Skellige was overpowered for a long time and seemed to have been the favourite faction of the developers. But they have since been overtaken by Scoia'Tael, which now seems to be the most overpowered faction, and also seems to have become the favoured faction of the devs.

yes, the golden cards and bribery abuse are a biggest problem... maybe you are a good guy trying to avoid that exploit, but most ppl are not, they just want to win, and will use every opportunity they can to just over do it, and you are just helpless at that point... something needs to be done to this... thanks

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2020

NG is not as strong as you think
Bribery is broken and needs some nerf, it has been like this for quite some time, and the interaction between Imperial Formation and Damian or Skellen is also pretty nuts, but apart from that NG is mostly OK.
There are some other factions/decks that are way more overpowered than anything NG can pull off - SK Second Wind Greatswords with its 50+ point finisher; or ST Precision Strike Harmony with its ridiculous point output and control.

i'm level 7, and i haven't seen the 50+ pt finisher yet to this point... i probably will when i get to better levels... but i beat any other factions with my monster deck... scoiatell, NR, Skellige, or Syndicate... but everytime i play NG, it's almost game over... i've been modifying my deck all the time to counter NG, but it's just ridiculous, it's so easy for them to overpower my deck with their constant Tactic cards, because you just never know what he pulls out, because he plays your cards as well as his... i like the unexpected, but it gets annoying when they can play 3 cards when you just play 1, or reusing their leader abilities over and over and over... you are just at their mercy

 

[Evangium]

NR is far worse than NG, in terms of cheap units, damage and boost. Combined with their scenario, they're the only faction at the moment which is able to do a board wipe on the ir opponents side of the board. Consequently, ST Harmony is probably the only archetype that runs big and wide enough to survive encounters with NR and NG.

Where NG has a balance problem is that some of it's RNG create mechanics have a high affinity for creating gold cards; bribery and the Double Cross leader ability being the two prime examples of this. Bribery seems to work like it only counts each unique instance of a card, rather than all the cards. If that's the case, instead of creating from a pool of 40 cards, the number of bronzes would be halved, increasing the odds of drawing a gold. Double Cross, unfortunately, is quite explicit that it creates a copy of a card from your hand. Since Gwent tends to promote a style of play where good cards are finishers or strong cards that form part of a finishing combo, many players will hold onto their best cards as long as they can. Ergo, the longer the Double Cross player holds off using the ability, the better the chance of creating a card that turns the game in their favor in R1 and R2. R3, depending on the meta, they're as likely to create a gold brick (Geralt with no 9+ strength units to target, Algais and they have no way of boosting her) as they are to get a good card (Ozreal and the MO player has any of the usual big units in the graveyard).

If my theory about Bribery is correct, then it could be reworked to have a wider pool to draw from by making it include duplicates. Double Cross, I don't think really can be salvaged by changing the way the ability works while having the same create mechanic. Personally, I think it's one of those abilities that could do with a change. IF CDPR intends it to be the default ability for Assimilate, then maybe have it create a random gold card from their opponent's faction.

Along with gold affinity, another area where there is balance issues is individual cards like Damien La Tour and Yennnefer's Invocation. Damien, in combination with cloning and redeplyment, enables multiple replays of his leader's ability. Being able to play a leader ability more than twice has historically been the root of the problem for many of NG's most binary decks. IF Damien must exist with his ability, then it needs to be single use. This would mean Damien would have to gain a doomed tag and destroy himself when his ability is activated. That, at least, makes the choice to use his ability a little more strategic, since it requires trading 5 points for the replay of the leader. TBH, I don't see any reason for replaying leader abilities. Most cards are strong enough now that Lockdown isn't effectively shutting entire decks down. Additionally no other faction has the either the ability to replay their leader abilities or shut down an opponent's leader. DLT is essentially a solution for a NG vs NG match.

Yennefer's Invocation has become the best removal card in the game. It costs less provisions than many other gold removal cards while having the flexibility to remove artifacts and units. This essentially frees a spot in the deck that may have been occupied by another specific removal card, depending on the meta. YI has no counter since Serpent Trap was changed. She never bricks like Geralt. And, unlike Scorch, won't burn your own unit if you're playing a deck that tends to produce tall units. The only drawback she has is she doesn't do so well against weenie spam decks, but that's a problem every deck has, given the lack of wide control/removal options currently in Gwent. At the very least, YI needs its provision cost increased. Sure, faction cards are supposed to be cheaper, even if they do the same thing as a neutral card, but the options provided by YI are so far above the power level of other removal cards.

 

[Timmy_Sully]

NR is far worse than NG, in terms of cheap units, damage and boost. Combined with their scenario, they're the only faction at the moment which is able to do a board wipe on the ir opponents side of the board. Consequently, ST Harmony is probably the only archetype that runs big and wide enough to survive encounters with NR and NG.

Where NG has a balance problem is that some of it's RNG create mechanics have a high affinity for creating gold cards; bribery and the Double Cross leader ability being the two prime examples of this. Bribery seems to work like it only counts each unique instance of a card, rather than all the cards. If that's the case, instead of creating from a pool of 40 cards, the number of bronzes would be halved, increasing the odds of drawing a gold. Double Cross, unfortunately, is quite explicit that it creates a copy of a card from your hand. Since Gwent tends to promote a style of play where good cards are finishers or strong cards that form part of a finishing combo, many players will hold onto their best cards as long as they can. Ergo, the longer the Double Cross player holds off using the ability, the better the chance of creating a card that turns the game in their favor in R1 and R2. R3, depending on the meta, they're as likely to create a gold brick (Geralt with no 9+ strength units to target, Algais and they have no way of boosting her) as they are to get a good card (Ozreal and the MO player has any of the usual big units in the graveyard).

If my theory about Bribery is correct, then it could be reworked to have a wider pool to draw from by making it include duplicates. Double Cross, I don't think really can be salvaged by changing the way the ability works while having the same create mechanic. Personally, I think it's one of those abilities that could do with a change. IF CDPR intends it to be the default ability for Assimilate, then maybe have it create a random gold card from their opponent's faction.

Along with gold affinity, another area where there is balance issues is individual cards like Damien La Tour and Yennnefer's Invocation. Damien, in combination with cloning and redeplyment, enables multiple replays of his leader's ability. Being able to play a leader ability more than twice has historically been the root of the problem for many of NG's most binary decks. IF Damien must exist with his ability, then it needs to be single use. This would mean Damien would have to gain a doomed tag and destroy himself when his ability is activated. That, at least, makes the choice to use his ability a little more strategic, since it requires trading 5 points for the replay of the leader. TBH, I don't see any reason for replaying leader abilities. Most cards are strong enough now that Lockdown isn't effectively shutting entire decks down. Additionally no other faction has the either the ability to replay their leader abilities or shut down an opponent's leader. DLT is essentially a solution for a NG vs NG match.

Yennefer's Invocation has become the best removal card in the game. It costs less provisions than many other gold removal cards while having the flexibility to remove artifacts and units. This essentially frees a spot in the deck that may have been occupied by another specific removal card, depending on the meta. YI has no counter since Serpent Trap was changed. She never bricks like Geralt. And, unlike Scorch, won't burn your own unit if you're playing a deck that tends to produce tall units. The only drawback she has is she doesn't do so well against weenie spam decks, but that's a problem every deck has, given the lack of wide control/removal options currently in Gwent. At the very least, YI needs its provision cost increased. Sure, faction cards are supposed to be cheaper, even if they do the same thing as a neutral card, but the options provided by YI are so far above the power level of other removal cards.

i agree with most what you said, but i don't think NR is way more OP. i destroy NR with my Monster deck, it's at least 50-50 with them if the opponent is smart or has a good hand... but i still take them down most of the time...

 

[mazeebra]

yes, the golden cards and bribery abuse are a biggest problem... maybe you are a good guy trying to avoid that exploit, but most ppl are not, they just want to win, and will use every opportunity they can to just over do it, and you are just helpless at that point... something needs to be done to this... thanks

Look at this.. Just a good example of how broken Bribery is.

"Create and play a unit from your opponent starting deck", if Bribery worked like that it would be ok, but it does not work like that. Everyone knows it is defect, and that is why they use Bribery with Stefan Skellen instead of War Council, which is a better card (if Bribery works as it should).

I have seen it too many times, Bribery very often finds the best cards in my deck, and if used multiple times it can even find the same card!

i've been modifying my deck all the time to counter NG, but it's just ridiculous, it's so easy for them to overpower my deck

Sadly you need to bring heatwave, purify and high damage cards to deal with it, and probably locks too. That's already 4-5 specific cards you need just to deal with those moves, it's wrong! If you play NG yourself at least you have a chance to stop that nonsense with all the locks.

I made a deck like this to test the problems and the worst mechanics of Nilfgaard, and it's very difficult for the opponent to stop those things. I can replay my leader over and over again, and replay the tactic cards many times, it's pretty bad. 4 times I can use my leader (5 times in a strategic withdrawal deck).

 

[Pacifixer]

Look at this.. Just a good example of how broken Bribery is.

"Create and play a unit from your opponent starting deck", if Bribery worked like that it would be ok, but it does not work like that. Everyone knows it is defect, and that is why they use Bribery with Stefan Skellen instead of War Council, which is a better card (if Bribery works as it should).

I have seen it too many times, Bribery very often finds the best cards in my deck, and if used multiple times it can even find the same card!



Sadly you need to bring heatwave, purify and high damage cards to deal with it, and probably locks too. That's already 4-5 specific cards you need just to deal with those moves, it's wrong! If you play NG yourself at least you have a chance to stop that nonsense with all the locks.

I made a deck like this to test the problems and the worst mechanics of Nilfgaard, and it's very difficult for the opponent to stop those things. I can replay my leader over and over again, and replay the tactic cards many times, it's pretty bad. 4 times I can use my leader (5 times in a strategic withdrawal deck).

Lol, Pumpkin at 4:34 That made my day.
Btw, if you're strugling against NG, the deck he's playing (Death's Shadow Kikimore Queen) should have the best matchups against NG out of all the MO meta decks (all 3 of them).

 

[Timmy_Sully]

Lol, Pumpkin at 4:34 That made my day.
Btw, if you're strugling against NG, the deck he's playing (Death's Shadow Kikimore Queen) should have the best matchups against NG out of all the MO meta decks (all 3 of them).

he lost though
it was ridiculous, played bribery 3 times.... ffs... limit that shite

 

[Archan6el]

NG is the faction of problematic high variance and RNG cards and mechanics. These cards need balancing around their provision cost, or reworking if their ability is too unbalanced. It's funny and sad to see (lengthy) explanations on the forums, but devs apparently not understanding or aware.

 

[dragoonzen]

I play MO too at the moment but I am normally a NG player. The fraction I have the most time beating is provision strike ST. I seem to get them 70% of the time at rank 2. I can beat NG, but I have to admit it's 50/50, enslaved NG with Damien and Stephen is very strong if they manage high rolls.

 

[Barracuda88]

I just had a guy play Bribery three times against me, pulled Vernossiel twice and topped it off with Isengrim. That deck has 20 freaking units and 5 special cards. G-G. Except I don't gg nilfgaard.

But also, I don't think there's really a way to "fix" nilfgaard. Every archetype nilfgaard ever had was just infuriating to play against. Going back to beta. I have not run into a single ng deck I legit had "fun" playing against. Even when I wipe the floor with them. Spies, reveal, enslave, poison, renew, you name it. Freaking MILL. You gotta be a certain kinda person to play those decks, all I'm saying.

Devs seem to love them, though. Give them all the insane cards. "Destroy a unit with status." Why not "Destroy a unit whose name has letters?" What the hell. 11-point defender. Renew hero power. Move card from graveyard to deck. Steal a card of your choice and put it in your deck. Create the best card from your opponent's deck and play it against him. Copy any of those for even more fun!

I mean, come on. There's no way to fix this. Just deal with them. Tech against them. No gg.

 

[mazeebra]

I just had a guy play Bribery three times against me, pulled Vernossiel twice and topped it off with Isengrim. That deck has 20 freaking units and 5 special cards. G-G. Except I don't gg nilfgaard.

But also, I don't think there's really a way to "fix" nilfgaard. Every archetype nilfgaard ever had was just infuriating to play against. Going back to beta. I have not run into a single ng deck I legit had "fun" playing against. Even when I wipe the floor with them. Spies, reveal, enslave, poison, renew, you name it. Freaking MILL. You gotta be a certain kinda person to play those decks, all I'm saying.

Devs seem to love them, though. Give them all the insane cards. "Destroy a unit with status." Why not "Destroy a unit whose name has letters?" What the hell. 11-point defender. Renew hero power. Move card from graveyard to deck. Steal a card of your choice and put it in your deck. Create the best card from your opponent's deck and play it against him. Copy any of those for even more fun!

I mean, come on. There's no way to fix this. Just deal with them. Tech against them. No gg.

Pfff, are you serious?
A few NG trolls get to ruin the name and legitimacy of all Nilfgaardians?

I'm not playing much Nilfgaard atm, but my "current" NG deck is running NG Witcher trio and the badvalue Unicorn/Chironex

And what do I get in return for that? Harmony and elf spammers using OP cards that can't be countered. Well great. So just close your cakehole Scoia'Tael and damage & poison & boost with a 5p card, then play your silly predictable Oak too.

 

[thetruerenter]

Every archetype nilfgaard ever had was just infuriating to play against.

Hey Barracuda, what about NG Soldiers beta version? Didn't remove too much but took hell lots of points. My favorite deck ever since, not surpassed yet.

 

[jmoyano92]

Nilfgaard is fine, just like Monsters. Main problems right now are Harmony decks and Second Wind, Freya's Blessing, An Craite Greatsword, Dagur and Wild Boar of the Sea combo. Madame Luiza and Savolla combo is also broken.

So the broken factions right now are only Scoia'tael, Skellige (as always) and in the third position Syndicate with a couple of broken cards. Nilfgaard and Monsters are mostly fine.

 

[Barracuda88]

Every archetype nilfgaard ever had was just infuriating to play against.

Hey Barracuda, what about NG Soldiers beta version? Didn't remove too much but took hell lots of points. My favorite deck ever since, not surpassed yet.

That the one with the Sentries and Slave infantry? OK, yeah, it was slightly less annoying

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2020

Pfff, are you serious?
A few NG trolls get to ruin the name and legitimacy of all Nilfgaardians?

I'm not playing much Nilfgaard atm, but my "current" NG deck is running NG Witcher trio and the badvalue Unicorn/Chironex

And what do I get in return for that? Harmony and elf spammers using OP cards that can't be countered. Well great. So just close your cakehole Scoia'Tael and damage & poison & boost with a 5p card, then play your silly predictable Oak too.

It's not just about trolls abusing broken Bribery, obviously, as seen from all the insane cards and archtypes listed in my previous post. The faction was basically built to grief you, from the ground up. Kind of amusing, actually, how the old abusive archetypes, like Spotters and Alchemy, etc. etc. went away, but they still managed to keep the faction as asinine as it ever was.

And my "predictable Oak" (which I don't play, btw)? I just spent the entire round setting that Oak up. What the hell did you do to set up your Stefan or Damien? Dropped a defender down? And then proceeded to get 3 of my predictable 13-provision oaks from your one 8-provision bribery? What strategic brilliance did you need to play Van Moorhelm? What skill do you need to play YOUR poison deck? At least ST doesn't run 10 poisons with an engine based on "status," which somehow hits AGAIN when a unit with "poisoned" status is poisoned the second time and destroyed. I mean, that's just stupid.

 

[Timmy_Sully]

That the one with the Sentries and Slave infantry? OK, yeah, it was slightly less annoying

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2020

It's not just about trolls abusing broken Bribery, obviously, as seen from all the insane cards and archtypes listed in my previous post. The faction was basically built to grief you, from the ground up. Kind of amusing, actually, how the old abusive archetypes, like Spotters and Alchemy, etc. etc. went away, but they still managed to keep the faction as asinine as it ever was.

And my "predictable Oak" (which I don't play, btw)? I just spent the entire round setting that Oak up. What the hell did you do to set up your Stefan or Damien? Dropped a defender down? And then proceeded to get 3 of my predictable 13-provision oaks from your one 8-provision bribery? What strategic brilliance did you need to play Van Moorhelm? What skill do you need to play YOUR poison deck? At least ST doesn't run 10 poisons with an engine based on "status," which somehow hits AGAIN when a unit with "poisoned" status is poisoned the second time and destroyed. I mean, that's just stupid.

you know another annoying broken card in NG is Cahir (boost self by the amount enemy boost) - if you clone him with Dudu on your side, your cloned Cahir will not boost himself when the original Cahir boosts himself on the other side... just broken faction...

[...]

 

[dragoonzen]

you know another annoying broken card in NG is Cahir (boost self by the amount enemy boost) - if you clone him with Dudu on your side, your cloned Cahir will not boost himself when the original Cahir boosts himself on the other side... just broken faction...

[...]

Cahir gets boosted by each individual unit(s) that gets boosted each time, that's dumb and broken. So if you don't remove Cahir you can't boost any of your units.

 

[Timmy_Sully]

Cahir gets boosted by each individual unit(s) that gets boosted each time, that's dumb and broken. So if you don't remove Cahir you can't boost any of your units.

that was the point, to counter his self-boost, is replicate him so he boosts himself by the same amount when Cahir on the other side boosts himself... but it's just dumb that he doesn't do it... broken in my opinion, because in the card description there is nothing that points or explains the triggering... just another advantage for the NG... another among the other thousand...

 

[Barracuda88]

you know another annoying broken card in NG is Cahir (boost self by the amount enemy boost) - if you clone him with Dudu on your side, your cloned Cahir will not boost himself when the original Cahir boosts himself on the other side... just broken faction...

[...]

Oh yeah, forgot Cahir. Another completely ridiculous card.

Edit: It's like NG playing their poison deck, and me running an ST card that says "Every time your opponent plays poison, remove poison from the poisoned unit and poison random enemy unit." Oh, but, HAVE FUN!!