Please Nerf the Nilfgaard - it's way too imbalanced

[Fargothwave]

Vilgefortz can also pull a high strength card, like Old Speartip. Or even worse a card with Order that the opponent can use directly. If you fish for Syanna is an insta-loss for the Vilgefortz player. From the Imperial Manticore to Windhalm an Attre, to really anything with a decent-body (Barbegazi, Ice Giant), there are a lot of cards you don't want to see. Ruhein can ruin your day. Really anything with deathwish or that ticks over time like Sly Seductress is suboptimal for the Vilgefortz player.

Now compare Vilgefortz with Yennefer's Invocation. What is the downside of Yennefer?
You take the card directly, which you might even play the same round with the leader ability or next turn with Yoachim or Roderick. That's the reason why you see Yennefer's Invocation, while Vilgefortz it's not so common.

Better a 4 pt poison card than Vilgefortz on the melee row. If you have Vilgefortz in your deck, is mostly for its ranged ability...

I would argue, that Vilgefortz is the sort of cards that Gwent needs. It's powerful, but it has a downside and the player has to think when it is the right time to use it. It can spell doom for you, if you pull something worse than the threat you just removed. It's a card you can use offensively or defensively, which is also good design.

Except this kind of unfortunate pull doesn't happen all that often (most cards are about deploy), but even when it happens, it disrupts enemy's game plan due to releasing a card before it's supposed to go. Imagine pulling out Syanna before the proper setup is ready. Sure, the ability can be used immediately, but probably shouldn't be, chances are, it's too early for that (Regis/Aglais/whatever else that needs a lot of setup) -, or, perhaps, too late for that, because the R1 is basically over, and now you either have to use your R3 combo in R1, or deal with the consequences of not having the full combo for the finale. Even Speartip and Imperial Manticore need proper use to be effective in spite of their "simplicity", but Vilgefortz denies that, so "backfiring" can't really be an argument. Having them released too early against a faction full of 1-tap-kills is a generally bad idea, innit? If you pulled Ruehin, you can easily YI him before your opponent gets the chance to raise any value from him, so he isn't exactly a bad catch either.

So in the end, Vilge:
1) Kills any units unconditionally
2) Most likely ruins one more
2.5) If you're unfortunate enough, it also ruins your entire strat while he's at article 2. Enjoy your Regis, man.
3) All for 9 provisions



The reason he sees less play than classic poison stuff? He's "expensive". Well, I mean, too expensive for spoiled double ball players, since they have so many easy removal options. Another reason YI sees more play is sadistic pleasure they derive from using your key cards against you. And lastly - maybe - they are afraid of pulling something bad, even though they really shouldn't be with a toolkit like that.

 

[Guest 4398794]

You're playing off-meta deck that has no control and is countered by tall-punish, and complain about loosing to meta deck that is known for its tall-punish capabilities??? RLY?!?!

You guys keep saying NG is not meta, nit top etc.

So what's your point again?

 

[bojerbela]

You guys keep saying NG is not meta, nit top etc.

So what's your point again?

Meta =/= OP. NG is Meta but it is not unbeatable But without control, they will have double Damien / Bribery. And - before you say, that I'm defending Nilfgaard - I wanna make clear, that I hate to play against this faction and really don't like the poison-spam.

 

[Guest 4368268]

Vilgefortz can also pull a high strength card, like Old Speartip. Or even worse a card with Order that the opponent can use directly. If you fish for Syanna is an insta-loss for the Vilgefortz player. From the Imperial Manticore to Windhalm an Attre, to really anything with a decent-body (Barbegazi, Ice Giant), there are a lot of cards you don't want to see. Ruhein can ruin your day. Really anything with deathwish or that ticks over time like Sly Seductress is suboptimal for the Vilgefortz player.

Now compare Vilgefortz with Yennefer's Invocation. What is the downside of Yennefer?
You take the card directly, which you might even play the same round with the leader ability or next turn with Yoachim or Roderick. That's the reason why you see Yennefer's Invocation, while Vilgefortz it's not so common.

Better a 4 pt poison card than Vilgefortz on the melee row. If you have Vilgefortz in your deck, is mostly for its ranged ability...

I would argue, that Vilgefortz is the sort of cards that Gwent needs. It's powerful, but it has a downside and the player has to think when it is the right time to use it. It can spell doom for you, if you pull something worse than the threat you just removed. It's a card you can use offensively or defensively, which is also good design.

Yes, with some bad RNG you could also get screwed that's true. But that's only another reason I don't like the card's design. And let's also be real, how many times does Vilgefortz really screw a player other than niche situations? I think Yennefer's inclusion over Vilgefortz has more to do with the meta (keeping cards out of the graveyard) than it does with Vilgefortz being flawed. NG's leader abilities (imposter, enslave, tac decision) could dispel any bad luck Vilgefortz might have.
Poison is obviously a strong mechanic, but it won't stop orders from going off.

 

[Guest 4398794]

Meta =/= OP. NG is Meta but it is not unbeatable But without control, they will have double Damien / Bribery. And - before you say, that I'm defending Nilfgaard - I wanna make clear, that I hate to play against this faction and really don't like the poison-spam.

Your gibberish makes no sense.

If something is meta, means is meta because is powerful.

And I don't know how you control anything in gwent which can spam 5 to 7 cards in one TURN.

NG is trash deck, it was made to piss players up. But now is out of control, and devs don't care.
There will be no player left for their next expansion to play with if they don't do something about this bs faction.
I read in many places that players stopped to play or paused to play because of NG. I guess is good for gwent, right. Well CDPR will see. The trust for them is because they made outstanding AAA games, so far in other stile of games they failed badly

 

[Mikroval]

Spring Team Clash - Qualifier Recap and Decklist Statistics | Aretuza

This weekend, Team Aretuza hosted open qualifiers for the Spring Team Clash. Many organized teams and community teams showed up to try and fight their way through the bracket and earn a spot in this week’s group stage. In this article, we’ll provide a brief recap of the format, results, some...

teamaretuza.com

This is from the most recent Aretuza Spring Team Clash qualifiers. You might wanna go to bans and winrates, just to elaborate on your last post.

I'll sum it up however: NG Imperial Formation highest ban rate, almost twice as much as any other leader. When it did not get banned it boasted a 65% win rate.

If that is not Tier1, i must wonder what is?

Apart from dominating in Pro tournaments, it seems NG is also the most played faction in this recent challenge. Perhaps we shouldn't play any other faction at all, making this game all about NG. Fun game indeed.

 

[Selestes]

Recently, I was thinking about NG and why I hate it.
Yeah I hate poison, double artifact, bribery ozzrel or oak every time. But my biggest complain is Damien.

There are no other cards that can reload leader ability: it is simply OP.
All ng abilities become op because of him.
Whatever provision he has, even whatever power he has, he is still op. He can be protected by defender, by using zeal potion, by boosting him using Morvran. If you lock him, he can be purified etc.
I'm not very good player, but even I am able to use his ability like 19 times of 20.

But at the same time, his ability is very unique... There are so few unique abilities left in the game

I'd say that he should have a timer, like "after 5 turns re-enable your leader ability". It is still strong, he can still win game, but at least we have 5 turns to kill him. even if you copy it with Letho, 5 turns seems to be enough.

 

[Draconifors]

5 turns seems to be enough.

It's too much. And I don't even use the card.

He could be changed to what Cahir used to do a long time ago, to re-enable both Leader abilities (but only if the opponent has not passed). That would be fairer, on paper at least.

 

[Guest 4398794]

It's too much. And I don't even use the card.

He could be changed to what Cahir used to do a long time ago, to re-enable both Leader abilities (but only if the opponent has not passed). That would be fairer, on paper at least.

Only if the opponent used his leadership too. Otherwise is still a joke.

 

[Draconifors]

Only if the opponent used his leadership too. Otherwise is still a joke.

Now you're just finding problems for the sake of finding problems. It would be fairer than the opponent having no chance of resetting their ability, you cannot possibly deny that.

 

[akindabad]

Well Enough is Enough, I am a day trader so I am on my computer all day and I love to play between my TA charting. Playing is fun and helps me to relax while doing a stressful job. But I must say I m giving up on Gwent for the time being. The game is rekt by NG faction, 90% of my games are against NG and I can't do nothing. This faction is just too strong and completely UNFUNNY to play against. There is absolutely no fun playing against NG, none, nada, 0. So for the last 2 weeks I have continued to play and each time I met NG, I forfeited immediately. I managed to go up to rank 8 which I am very happy as a new player. But since the patch there is no more Syndicate players now it's 99% NG decks. So despite spending lot of $$$ to buy the cards I wanted (I build some super fun decks with MO, SY and Skellige), there is no more point for me to pass on 9 games out of 10. So farewell Gwent, I am going to check Legend of Runeterra.... I am sure Riot would appreciate my $$$ as much as CDPR and maybe gave me some fun instead of frustration.

 

[Guest 4398794]

Now you're just finding problems for the sake of finding problems. It would be fairer than the opponent having no chance of resetting their ability, you cannot possibly deny that.

Lol. That card is a joke. And I don't find problem.

 

[irrrregular]

Yes lets all play ng double scenario, as if it isnt already 80% of the games. Just for the matter of being in the meta.

 

[sfruzz]

Poison is obviously a strong mechanic, but it won't stop orders from going off.

Actually it can. I get regularly double poisoned in the same turn. Dryad Ranger and Call of the Forest from the graveyard to pull a second poison card. Or, as far as NG is concerned, Roderick into any other aristocrat with Masquerade Ball in place.

There are multiple ways to kill a unit with orders in one turn, from Ewald Borsodi to Imlerith's Wrath, not just Vilgefortz.
Moreelse, Prince Anseis with the correct leader, I can name you many examples.

The reason he sees less play than classic poison stuff? He's "expensive". Well, I mean, too expensive for spoiled double ball players, since they have so many easy removal options.

It's not just expensive, it has a strong drawback. For units between 4-6 strength most of the tactic cards would do. For big threats, Geralt would do. Vilgefortz? Mayber if you want to fish for Tibor or the 7 strength soldier. Offensively I would play it in a Mill deck.

 

[Fargothwave]

It's not just expensive, it has a strong drawback. For units between 4-6 strength most of the tactic cards would do. For big threats, Geralt would do. Vilgefortz? Mayber if you want to fish for Tibor or the 7 strength soldier. Offensively I would play it in a Mill deck.

It isn't a drawback most of the time. Can be sometimes, and it's rather unlikely to happen anyway. Most of the time, an offensive Vilgerotz destroys a card and then effectively bricks (or pulls at a totally wrong time) one more. Which is WAY too much for a 9-prov card. It's a good thing he's underrated, because NG is giving everyone bad enough time as it is. This doesn't mean he needs no rework, though. I feel that the part of his ability about instant unconditinal destruction is more relevant in this thread, but you know what?


Milling also needs to go. It isn't fun to play against. It's unfair. It's pure RNG, but the game is rigged in favor of the player who does the mill - because his deck is ready for that, while his enemy whole strategy may hinge on a couple of cards that get destroyed/summoned instead of deployed, and then their strategy is effectively done for. Mill shouldn't be an archetype, it shouldn't even be a "sidearm", so to say. It's arguably the most toxic mechanic in the game, on par with cheap instant removals and even worse since it can remove spells and artifacts too.


But I digress. Point is, Vilgefortz is actually quite broken and it's a good thing he's mostly ignored by Ball kids. We have enough to deal with already.

 

[Draconifors]

Milling also needs to go.

Mill is one of the most unique decks, so removing it would be reducing diversity. And isn't a lack of diversity one of the most common complaints, even with just Nilfgaard?
It's tended to be a gimmicky deck that can be really good but always relies very heavily on RNG. Not sure what it's like these days, but I seriously doubt it's top-tier.

Mill has its place, and while it's annoying to face the same can be said about most other decks as well. I've never played mill, and I haven't particularly enjoyed matches I've played against it, but I'm against killing it off simply because of its unique nature.

It's always been hated by many, yet it exists. I believe its first versions appeared back in 2017 so it has quite a history. Would be a shame to end it just because it's considered annoying.

 

[Guest 4398794]

Mill is one of the most unique decks, so removing it would be reducing diversity. And isn't a lack of diversity one of the most common complaints, even with just Nilfgaard?
It's tended to be a gimmicky deck that can be really good but always relies very heavily on RNG. Not sure what it's like these days, but I seriously doubt it's top-tier.

Mill has its place, and while it's annoying to face the same can be said about most other decks as well. I've never played mill, and I haven't particularly enjoyed matches I've played against it, but I'm against killing it off simply because of its unique nature.

It's always been hated by many, yet it exists. I believe its first versions appeared back in 2017 so it has quite a history. Would be a shame to end it just because it's considered annoying.

Rule one: the game has to be fun.
Rule two: same as rule one.

If somthing is annoying too much, you as a developer, who tries to make money out of your work, have to get rid of it. No questions asked.
Unique or not.
They can make other less annoying unique cards, builds for the game, which don't steal the other gamers things.
Who the hell likes their things to be touched.
Damage it, lock it, but don't steal it or broke it.

 

[Draconifors]

If somthing is annoying too much, you as a developer, who tries to make money out of your work, have to get rid of it. No questions asked.

Yeah, no. By that logic quite a few decks should be gotten rid of.

Besides, define "too much". Keep in mind the people who complain about (in this case) Nilfgaard are just a vocal minority because
a) not all players use forums/Reddit/etc. and
b) once again I make this argument: people are far more likely to complain (Nilfgaard is annoying) than praise (I like Nilfgaard) because humans.

 

[Fargothwave]

Mill is one of the most unique decks, so removing it would be reducing diversity. And isn't a lack of diversity one of the most common complaints, even with just Nilfgaard?
It's tended to be a gimmicky deck that can be really good but always relies very heavily on RNG. Not sure what it's like these days, but I seriously doubt it's top-tier.

Mill has its place, and while it's annoying to face the same can be said about most other decks as well. I've never played mill, and I haven't particularly enjoyed matches I've played against it, but I'm against killing it off simply because of its unique nature.

It's always been hated by many, yet it exists. I believe its first versions appeared back in 2017 so it has quite a history. Would be a shame to end it just because it's considered annoying.

Diversity and uniqueness are good things, sure. They definitely should have a place in the game. This, however, doesn't mean it should happen at any cost. Mill, as a concept, defies the only thing that makes Gwent unique among all the CCG - primate of smart plays over pure RNG.

Worse yet, like I said, a miller's deck is optimised for this RNG, while their opponent's probably isn't. Even winning against this kind of deck leaves bad taste in your mouth, because this win is basically a dice throw and your skiill as a player means nothing. There's no satisfaction of outsmarting your opponent whatsoever. I suppose destroying 13-prov cards feels good if you're the one doing that, though.

"History" is a pretty bad argument, all in alI. I miss my first GF too but I'm pretty sure there're few people would want to have ritual sacrifices back just because those are an old tradition. It's a bit extreme example, but the general idea is valid - just because something is old, doesn't mean it's good and has place in present day. Like, you know, mill.

But let me reiterate =GWENT is supposed to be a game of smarts, strategy, outcunning your opponent and the like. It is its main selling point, the thing that makes it different from HS and all the other CCG. Mill just doesn't fit into this paradigm. Playing against it is wasting 15 to 20 minutes of your life on a dice throw. There's a huge difference between drawing a bad hand and getting your best cards destroyed like that - the former is a test of your skill (and your deck, I guess), while latter is just an RNG fiesta.

 

[vyper1]

Yeah, no. By that logic quite a few decks should be gotten rid of.

Besides, define "too much". Keep in mind the people who complain about (in this case) Nilfgaard are just a vocal minority because
a) not all players use forums/Reddit/etc. and
b) once again I make this argument: people are far more likely to complain (Nilfgaard is annoying) than praise (I like Nilfgaard) because humans.

Except it is dangerous to assume anything and minimise the complaints.

Even IRL most people dont vocalise to confront but only behind their backs. "Because humans". Doesnt mean that the NG complaints arent valid.

Infact if you look at all the social media content, NG is well known to be an annoying and hated faction as a whole. The few vocal complaints can be a statistical representation of the whole population.

If there is a vast majority of complaints against than for then that is also a valid representative of the population and should not be minimised by an assumption based on specualtion rather than fact.

I for one think NG has been badly designed.