Please, No More Expansions until the game is balanced and bugs free

+
I heard from a friend that CDPR are working on the new expansion... I have a feeling it will be another disaster bringing even more imbalance in an already broken game. Introduction of defenders and scenarios was a questionable invention that limited the diversity of the game and hurt the balance. With no balance and recent patch with tons of bugs I am certain that new cards is the last thing the game needs right now.

I wish CDPR listens to the fan base and makes the game enjoyable first, and then release expansions and ask for even more money.
 
I heard from a friend that CDPR are working on the new expansion... I have a feeling it will be another disaster bringing even more imbalance in an already broken game. Introduction of defenders and scenarios was a questionable invention that limited the diversity of the game and hurt the balance. With no balance and recent patch with tons of bugs I am certain that new cards is the last thing the game needs right now.

I wish CDPR listens to the fan base and makes the game enjoyable first, and then release expansions and ask for even more money.

That’s just not the style of CDPR, the pattern is as old as Gwent. Add new cards that unbalance everything. Minor nerf to fix the problem (usually doesn’t address everything or fix much or anything.) Next comes the major nerf (Witcher trio is a prime example.) The major nerf creates a lot of dead cards which will rarely if ever see a comeback. Meanwhile, either new or changed cards will create a new imbalance. Hidden cache and uprising are in the minor nerf cycle and NG was skipped over this time. Next will be the major nerf which makes both feel unplayabe. But, they will add just the right cards to make a different faction dominate the meta for a while. Relax and enjoy the ride.
 
That is not how cardgames work though.
No new cards (which about always means expansions) means stagnation and a lot of players start losing interest, due to a lack of new decks to build.
You can pretend that the same cardpool would always allow new types fo decks to be build, however that is just obviously not the case.
I also remember a "recent" stream of Oceanmud where he basically exploded and got really angry about only 2 expansions this year meaning there is little to nothing to explore, especially if one prefers a couple of factions.
I have to agree on that and only having 2 expansions per year is bad enough already, going below that already very low bar is just asking for the game to start rotting.
If it were not for Journey (which only somewhat barely accomplishes that) I would just quit the game until the next expansion drops and there would finally be something worth exploring (it has already been long enough since the last expansion).
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
That is not going to happen.

Last year, they released 4 expansions. I've heard that is more than the usual CCGs, which typically do 3. So they didnt have much time to focus on balance changes, despite plenty of similar requests to the one OP made here.

This year, the expansion number is reduced to 2, but somehow that didnt allow us to get more balance changes and revamps of old cards that havent seen play in years, somehow we have gotten even less, in these past 4 months, and now the expansion is probably too close (my guess is 1-2 months away) to focus on anything else...

Because they have to. Its the expansions that raise player interest and bring the money, and most players that have gotten used to a new expansion every 3-4 months last year, are craving for a new one now, and will start getting frustrated and demand it more and more with each passing week.
 
That is not how cardgames work though.
No new cards (which about always means expansions) means stagnation and a lot of players start losing interest, due to a lack of new decks to build.
I understand what you are saying. But look how many dead cards are in the current pool. A smart way would be to revamp those cards, thus creating new opportunities for deck building.

And they can add say 5 new cards per faction each quarter. I don't want to see 1000+ cards in this game in 2022. :cry:
 
That is not how cardgames work though.
No new cards (which about always means expansions) means stagnation and a lot of players start losing interest, due to a lack of new decks to build.
You can pretend that the same cardpool would always allow new types fo decks to be build, however that is just obviously not the case.
I also remember a "recent" stream of Oceanmud where he basically exploded and got really angry about only 2 expansions this year meaning there is little to nothing to explore, especially if one prefers a couple of factions.
I have to agree on that and only having 2 expansions per year is bad enough already, going below that already very low bar is just asking for the game to start rotting.
If it were not for Journey (which only somewhat barely accomplishes that) I would just quit the game until the next expansion drops and there would finally be something worth exploring (it has already been long enough since the last expansion).
Wanna talk about stagnation, in W3WH there were 4 gwent factions. Then comes blood and wine and they add a 5th. It took them years to add a 6th. I have no idea if and when they plan to add a 7th, but we desperately need more than 6. Also, the faction identities that were very distinct in beta are all but dead now. We have the occasional exclusive archetype (NG spies, SK discard and self harm,) but even within the archetypes the function isn’t that unique.
Post automatically merged:

I understand what you are saying. But look how many dead cards are in the current pool. A smart way would be to revamp those cards, thus creating new opportunities for deck building.

And they can add say 5 new cards per faction each quarter.
People already have those cards and the premiums to match. No one will buy powder or real money kegs for a revamp. Devs simply don’t care much about the quality of the game so long as it is good enough to bring in customers.
 
I understand what you are saying. But look how many dead cards are in the current pool. A smart way would be to revamp those cards, thus creating new opportunities for deck building.

And they can add say 5 new cards per faction each quarter. I don't want to see 1000+ cards in this game in 2022. :cry:
I would also like terrible cards to be made playable (see Wild Boar and Savage Bear as examples for changes/reworks being done right), however those take forever to be made and usually expansions at the very least add something and if it were not for the complete misshandling of Dwarves ST alone would have even more diversity of archtypes (Elves, (Dwarves are unplayable garbage), Harmony, admittedly Shupe variants died (although Radeyah Elves should count as a second example) and I am propably missing some 1-card focuses piles like Shirru, which one could see as an archtype if one squeezes one's eyes enough).
The only new playable cards are almost always new cards and if it were not for the expansions we got Dwarves and Elves as archtypes, as well as harmony would not exist and I would rather lose against an archtype than against a pile of (mostly) unsynergetic cards that are just strong cards that require no actual focus on the deckbuilding (which SY has been, with a few exceptions (like Crimes)).

Wanna talk about stagnation, in W3WH there were 4 gwent factions. Then comes blood and wine and they add a 5th. It took them years to add a 6th. I have no idea if and when they plan to add a 7th, but we desperately need more than 6.
[...]
There is no need for even more factions, it took them long enough to somewhat balance Syndicate and right now Syndicate has at the very least 2 playable archtypes (Whoreson Crimes and some incoherent pile of cookie cutter cards).

What we need are more archtypes within factions, Syndicate is the best example of what archtype indentities done wrong lead to, they have 1 actually playable archtype (Crimes), 1 deck consisting of cards one just throws on a pile that do not even necessarily have any synergies and every other attempt at an archtype (e.g. gangs) is so undersupported or straight up nerfed beyond being playable on the lower powerlevel when it was introduced (e.g. Witch Hunters) that the faction is just a sad image.
The only saving grace of Syndicate right now is Crimes (I am not even talking about powerlevel, the literal piles are just not interesting, they are everything that was wrong with HC when it started and which we (luckily) moved beyond).

[...]
People already have those cards and the premiums to match. No one will buy powder or real money kegs for a revamp. Devs simply don’t care much about the quality of the game so long as it is good enough to bring in customers.
I honestly doubt that, if they wanted to bring in customers they would release more expansions, rather than reworking some things (they get nothing from, except people being potentially being more satisfied) and introducing a couple of ornaments.
 
Last edited:
I would also like terrible cards to be made playable (see Wild Boar and Savage Bear as examples for changes/reworks being done right), however those take forever to be made and usually expansions at the very least add something and if it were not for the complete misshandling of Dwarves ST alone would have even more diversity of archtypes (Elves, (Dwarves are unplayable garbage), Harmony, admittedly Shupe variants died (although Radeyah Elves should count as a second example) and I am propably missing some 1-card focuses piles like Shirru, which one could see as an archtype if one squeezes one's eyes enough).
The only new playable cards are almost always new cards and if it were not for the expansions we got Dwarves and Elves as archtypes, as well as harmony would not exist and I would rather lose against an archtype than against a pile of (mostly) unsynergetic cards that are just strong cards that require no actual focus on the deckbuilding (which SY has been, with a few exceptions (like Crimes)).


There is no need for even more factions, it took them long enough to somewhat balance Syndicate and right now Syndicate has at the very least 2 playable archtypes (Whoreson Crimes and some incoherent pile of cookie cutter cards).

What we need are more archtypes within factions, Syndicate is the best example of what archtype indentities done wrong lead to, they have 1 actually playable archtype (Crimes), 1 deck consisting of cards one just throws on a pile that do not even necessarily have any synergies and every other attempt at an archtype (e.g. gangs) is so undersupported or straight up nerfed beyond being playable on the lower powerlevel when it was introduced (e.g. Witch Hunters) that the faction is just a sad image.
The only saving grace of Syndicate right now is Crimes (I am not even talking about powerlevel, the literal piles are just not interesting, they are everything that was wrong with HC when it started and which we (luckily) moved beyond).


I honestly doubt that, if they wanted to bring in customers they would release more expansions, rather than reworking some things (they get nothing from, except people being potentially being more satisfied) and introducing a couple of ornaments.

My point exactly. They don’t profit from reworking older cards people already have as much as making new cards people need to acquire. As for your other point, SY is crazy strong. Hidden cache got minor nerf but is still competitive. Point slam with engines very much still works. Not sure about pro ranks at this point but in general competitive terms SY is 2nd or 3rd in power behind NG and maybe NR.
 
[...] As for your other point, SY is crazy strong. Hidden cache got minor nerf but is still competitive. Point slam with engines very much still works. Not sure about pro ranks at this point but in general competitive terms SY is 2nd or 3rd in power behind NG and maybe NR.
My point was less that the non-crime version of Syndicate would be too strong and more that it is just a pile of cards, rather than a synergetic deck (it does not need to have the same amount of nuances as something like Tactic NG, however the current amount is just boring).

My point exactly. They don’t profit from reworking older cards people already have as much as making new cards people need to acquire.
[...]
My point was actually the opposite, they (at the very least announced that they) decided to pump out less expansions to try and balance more (which I will only believe does anything when I see it, to be honest I would rather have more expansions like last year and if something becomes the sole tier 1 deck adding a hotfix, otherwise it is just a meta like any other, even if a couple of cards still need some fine tuning).
My point was that they decided against what would make the most money.
Furthermore that the expansions will be any more balanced than before and that they do any more necessary tweaks (like Wild Boar and Savage Bear) remains to be seen, I am sceptical in that regard, which still leaves the question why they would release less expansions if we cannot expect any more balancing (and turning unusable cards decent) than before.
 
I came here to rant about bugs, but again, what's your problem with balance? This patch balanced back most important things, so what now?
 
Yes adding cards is insane when 75 percent of the cards in this game never see the light of day.

I get the spending thing....but at least make new premium cards whose sole purpose is to make archetypes playable and/or blow up the same meta decks we have seen forever....please don’t create a whole new set of cards on some new idea that will be totally OP or totally useless....

I have to believe the new Journey system (which I just love), can fuel spend especially if they add to it faster....Triss and Jennifer go go go

don’t try to make money off more bad cards....
 
That is not how cardgames work though.
No new cards (which about always means expansions) means stagnation and a lot of players start losing interest, due to a lack of new decks to build.

I'm pretty sure people care more about a bug free and competitive game rather than just new cards. There are numerous cards already in the game but not playable. If they fix those we have hundreds (maybe over 100) of "new cards" and interesting things ongoing.
 

Lexor

Forum veteran
People already have those cards and the premiums to match. No one will buy powder or real money kegs for a revamp. Devs simply don’t care much about the quality of the game so long as it is good enough to bring in customers.
No one will also buy powder or real money kegs if the game is full of bugs.
If the game is doing great then the new players will come and that also means new money for devs.
Even with no new expansions.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: rrc
I really don't want to sound dismissive here or repeat things already said but if people keep on repeating the same faulty logic then there's just no avoiding it.

There is no one ideal balance in a card game. And the genre doesn't work by stopping so it can chase this hypothetical balance. It works by adding new things and sometimes tweaking old cards. Physical card games generally don't change cards at all. Sometimes the next generation of the base set (that's the basic pool of non-expansion cards on which you build decks during the given year) will tweak a card slightly, but that's very rare.
It's frankly rare even with computer card games. In Hearthstone; a few priest cards, which multiplied boosts to extreme results were part of the original game it took six years(!) for some of them to be removed from general play.

As for some cards being out of play: that is also how card games work. There's also a fashion and some cards get left out of it. New cards are always out in force and old ones are out on their asses. As a matter of fact both in terms of tweaking card power and keeping old cards relevant: Gwent is the best card game that i've seen. It's not uncommon to see old cards get remade into something useful. The Wild Hunt Hound (name may vary) for example. It used to be useless and suddenly you see it all the time.

As far as stopping expansions. That's REALLY not how card games work. Card games run at full steam when a new expansion is relased and hope like hell that player interest tides them over until the next expansion hits. Stopping expansion development would KILL the game. Also; like other people have mentioned; there's already a lower amount of expansions planned for the year in Gwent compared to what you usually see in card games.

All this is to say: I get what you're saying but it would be better if you checked your facts before complaining. Otherwise it's a bit...
 
I understand what you are saying. But look how many dead cards are in the current pool. A smart way would be to revamp those cards, thus creating new opportunities for deck building.

And they can add say 5 new cards per faction each quarter. I don't want to see 1000+ cards in this game in 2022. :cry:

Yeah and I can't handle cards completely redesigned for the gazillionth time. Nerf them or boost them, but don't change them.

As for the bugs: can someone with a dev background explain to us what happened? I thought they only changed 5 cards and effects? Isn't it just copy-pasting some code and changing some values? What the hell went wrong? There are no new interactions between cards. Maybe if they communicated the nature of the errors, people won't consider them to be a joke anymore.

I was happy with the patch (finally some PvE again) but it was shortlasted, because of course it would.
 
I really don't want to sound dismissive here or repeat things already said but if people keep on repeating the same faulty logic then there's just no avoiding it.

There is no one ideal balance in a card game. And the genre doesn't work by stopping so it can chase this hypothetical balance. It works by adding new things and sometimes tweaking old cards. Physical card games generally don't change cards at all. Sometimes the next generation of the base set (that's the basic pool of non-expansion cards on which you build decks during the given year) will tweak a card slightly, but that's very rare.
It's frankly rare even with computer card games. In Hearthstone; a few priest cards, which multiplied boosts to extreme results were part of the original game it took six years(!) for some of them to be removed from general play.

As for some cards being out of play: that is also how card games work. There's also a fashion and some cards get left out of it. New cards are always out in force and old ones are out on their asses. As a matter of fact both in terms of tweaking card power and keeping old cards relevant: Gwent is the best card game that i've seen. It's not uncommon to see old cards get remade into something useful. The Wild Hunt Hound (name may vary) for example. It used to be useless and suddenly you see it all the time.

As far as stopping expansions. That's REALLY not how card games work. Card games run at full steam when a new expansion is relased and hope like hell that player interest tides them over until the next expansion hits. Stopping expansion development would KILL the game. Also; like other people have mentioned; there's already a lower amount of expansions planned for the year in Gwent compared to what you usually see in card games.

All this is to say: I get what you're saying but it would be better if you checked your facts before complaining. Otherwise it's a bit...
Agree and want to add, Gwent has a terrible track record with expansions. After every single one people clamor for rebalance and hot fix, not even addressing the multitude of bugs that usually follow. CDPR couldn’t balance Gwent even if it wanted too, much less do so while also expanding it enough to keep people interested.
 
I really don't want to sound dismissive here or repeat things already said but if people keep on repeating the same faulty logic then there's just no avoiding it.

There is no one ideal balance in a card game. And the genre doesn't work by stopping so it can chase this hypothetical balance. It works by adding new things and sometimes tweaking old cards. Physical card games generally don't change cards at all. Sometimes the next generation of the base set (that's the basic pool of non-expansion cards on which you build decks during the given year) will tweak a card slightly, but that's very rare.
It's frankly rare even with computer card games. In Hearthstone; a few priest cards, which multiplied boosts to extreme results were part of the original game it took six years(!) for some of them to be removed from general play.

As for some cards being out of play: that is also how card games work. There's also a fashion and some cards get left out of it. New cards are always out in force and old ones are out on their asses. As a matter of fact both in terms of tweaking card power and keeping old cards relevant: Gwent is the best card game that i've seen. It's not uncommon to see old cards get remade into something useful. The Wild Hunt Hound (name may vary) for example. It used to be useless and suddenly you see it all the time.

As far as stopping expansions. That's REALLY not how card games work. Card games run at full steam when a new expansion is relased and hope like hell that player interest tides them over until the next expansion hits. Stopping expansion development would KILL the game. Also; like other people have mentioned; there's already a lower amount of expansions planned for the year in Gwent compared to what you usually see in card games.

All this is to say: I get what you're saying but it would be better if you checked your facts before complaining. Otherwise it's a bit...
I understand your logic and how digital card games operate, hence I am concerned that Gwent will follow this path as well.
It may not be the mainstream approach in online card games but if my car is not driving well, I would first repair the car rather than buy a trailer for it.

Also, what CDPR seem to forget or don't know in the first place, is that money is a by-product of the service. If they expect that they will earn more just by raising the prices for powder, they are destined to fail. The reality is that when people are dissatisfied with the service they will stop buying until this service is improved. And this is what we see happening now (you probably have seen many posts from upset people here).
 
Last edited:
I really don't want to sound dismissive here or repeat things already said but if people keep on repeating the same faulty logic then there's just no avoiding it.

There is no one ideal balance in a card game. And the genre doesn't work by stopping so it can chase this hypothetical balance. It works by adding new things and sometimes tweaking old cards. Physical card games generally don't change cards at all. Sometimes the next generation of the base set (that's the basic pool of non-expansion cards on which you build decks during the given year) will tweak a card slightly, but that's very rare.
It's frankly rare even with computer card games. In Hearthstone; a few priest cards, which multiplied boosts to extreme results were part of the original game it took six years(!) for some of them to be removed from general play.

As for some cards being out of play: that is also how card games work. There's also a fashion and some cards get left out of it. New cards are always out in force and old ones are out on their asses. As a matter of fact both in terms of tweaking card power and keeping old cards relevant: Gwent is the best card game that i've seen. It's not uncommon to see old cards get remade into something useful. The Wild Hunt Hound (name may vary) for example. It used to be useless and suddenly you see it all the time.

As far as stopping expansions. That's REALLY not how card games work. Card games run at full steam when a new expansion is relased and hope like hell that player interest tides them over until the next expansion hits. Stopping expansion development would KILL the game. Also; like other people have mentioned; there's already a lower amount of expansions planned for the year in Gwent compared to what you usually see in card games.

All this is to say: I get what you're saying but it would be better if you checked your facts before complaining. Otherwise it's a bit...
I thought I would post this message again, thankfully we have the person who knows it all so no need for any of us to post anything or have any views.....that is not how it works,......

All is as it should be!
 
I heard from a friend that CDPR are working on the new expansion... I have a feeling it will be another disaster bringing even more imbalance in an already broken game. Introduction of defenders and scenarios was a questionable invention that limited the diversity of the game and hurt the balance. With no balance and recent patch with tons of bugs I am certain that new cards is the last thing the game needs right now.

I wish CDPR listens to the fan base and makes the game enjoyable first, and then release expansions and ask for even more money.


Balancing a game to perfection is impossible and not what they are looking for, old gwent felt way more consistent and that's not what they wanted anymore with the update. Aside from that, with LoR around the corner, stopping the dev cycle and having the game become stale again would make them lose even more players.
 
NILFGAARD will always superior over everything. No one can beat my NILFGAARD decks except another NILFGAARD.
 
Top Bottom