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Please, no pro ladder

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friketje

Junior Member
#1
Please, no pro ladder

It's a very bad idea, not liking it at all.

1. Normal ladder makes no sense anymore; yes you can play normal ladder, but this has devaluated to a grinding tool to rank and get kegs. It's no indication of skill (as the old ladder was) cause it's second level. On the other hand, even pro ladder is flawed. It favours people that play a shit load of games, and most people will just don't care about it and skip it.
2. The grind. I will probably make 400 games cause this is probably comparable to my daily gwent fix. But it is a crazy lot. Go on holliday or have some real life issues (or just a break in Gwent or other games to play): no pro ladder (at least for me that is) and you can even get kicked out of it.

Also pro ladder ranking is no indication of skill inless you have played 400 games. Only you're max mmr is shown, so I don't have a clue were my real mmr is and i've it's any good. Drop a few games and there is no indication were you're at and what you have to do to climb.

I hope that CDR will drop it and implement a faction specific ladder and drop the pro ladder. You have multiple ladders by faction and one combined one for best of 4 factions. This is kinda pro ladder, but fun for all. Have little time, only play one faction. People that play a lot can try to rank high for multiple factions and rank in the general ladder for crown points.
 

TheShift

Poser
#2
Fun tip.

I won 600 games last season (2 months)

my ratio is usually 60/40 if I had to guess

that's well over 1000 games and I usually only play the first 2 tiers sometimes more

just sayin.

now I don't know how that wieghs into this convo.
just "thought for food" to quote 4RM3D
 

Ramcius

Junior Member
#3
just some basic math: 400/60 (2 months) - 6.7, so 7 games a day is enough for pro ladder
 

TheShift

Poser
#4
I'm not in the pro ladder and to be honest that was mostly casual..minus the last 3 weeks I played the ladder
I guess I should have said.. win ratio is 60/40 give or take
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#5
Unlike the normal ladder, the pro-ladder is all or nothing. You either push to the top or you might as well ignore the pro-ladder altogether. That's why it's only for pros. If it doesn't interest you, you can just ignore it and lose nothing.
 

friketje

Junior Member
#6
Ramcius;n9514741 said:
just some basic math: 400/60 (2 months) - 6.7, so 7 games a day is enough for pro ladder
But you need to practice a little and fool around with different decks. Also, for me at last, I like to get to rank 18 for keg rewards, I needed 90 games for this.
So 10-12 games needed a day is more reasonable, without taking a break of course and netdecking. I've you want to experiment with you're own decks you can add a couple of games to this.
That's a lot, to much imho.
 
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SrdjanB

Junior Member
#7
While the devs could divulge us the how exactly are fMMR Real score points distributed I highly doubt it favors the most games played.

It would be more than logical to go with pure winrate calculation, possibly with some adjucments due to current or highest number of points but I honestly think that is dumb for a pro ladder. If you are best you should be consistently best from your first day and against everybody.

I mean, after 400 games value diminishes fast, if you are able to pull your win rate considerably it is worth playing, if you are either unable to do that or don't see a point if you are like 1000-th or so and even major streak wouldn't put you in the top.

Regular ladder is ridiculous in that regard, since bunch of games will certainly put you higher, up until 4500 range but even there you will continue to climb a lot faster than someone with same winrate and less games.

Indication of skill, what is it, is it measured on ladder or in tournament? I happened to play some very high ranked individuals once and beat them, am I better than them? It is very hard to define, but I can tell you this, if you on the end of this season are in the top 100 of the regular ladder you can think of yourself as really good.

And to add, not only will most of the players who after 400 games see that they are not even near the crowns, not to mention place in the Open return to regular ladder, but real top players will certainly come to test decks and such, not to mention some pretty great players that play both ladders right now for some reason.

I don't see Pro Ladder as a bad thing, it is a good addition to the game and if you are good enough you can get into reward, maybe not Open invite, range with 400 games, given that Tier 2 player must play more than 10 games each day you are still left with enough games to grind to rank 18 or so in regular ladder after you test yourself with the pros.
 

Raiie

Junior Member
#8
I see the pro ladder as a joke since there is no draft mode and that the game is still fundamentally broken with the Ul and coinflip, also that northern realms is hilariously overpowered.
 

Esmer

Junior Member
#9
Raiie;n9518111 said:
I see the pro ladder as a joke since there is no draft mode and that the game is still fundamentally broken with the Ul and coinflip, also that northern realms is hilariously overpowered.
Coin flip affects both players, if you play a lot of games, you end up winning the coin toss 50% of the time.

NR might be overpowered, but you need to play with 4 factions to be competitive on the pro ladder.
 

Raiie

Junior Member
#10
Esmer;n9523911 said:
Coin flip affects both players, if you play a lot of games, you end up winning the coin toss 50% of the time.

NR might be overpowered, but you need to play with 4 factions to be competitive on the pro ladder.
Since this pro ladder can lead into tournaments which can generate money for someone then I don't see how it can be good to have a mechanic that is flawed and broken, since there was statistics on this which showed that going 2nd had a higher winrate. NR is overpowered with their tempo and being able to win with pure rng sure you can thin your deck to make it happen with djikstra or stennis but still they're able to pull the right cards.
The pro ladder also doesn¨t have a ban phase like the tournaments have so your specific faction mmr can be ruined by meeting NR.
 
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inacion

Junior Member
#11
Esmer;n9523911 said:
Coin flip affects both players, if you play a lot of games, you end up winning the coin toss 50% of the time.

NR might be overpowered, but you need to play with 4 factions to be competitive on the pro ladder.
Agree, check tournaments match system. You need a deck of at least 4 factions and won with 3. An overpowered faction will have serious impact on normal ladder but not on pro ladder.
 

Pruny

Junior Member
#12
All the noobs got into proladder netdecking Dagon
i only reached 4150 with eredin because my deck was nerfed several times by cdpr
Why is level 19 marked as master if you cant play in proladder...
 
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Raiie

Junior Member
#13
inacion;n9524891 said:
Agree, check tournaments match system. You need a deck of at least 4 factions and won with 3. An overpowered faction will have serious impact on normal ladder but not on pro ladder.
What does this even mean? You seem to contradict yourself at the last sentence considering that a "pro" player can use the overpowered faction's full potential, thus having an advantage over the other 3 factions which in the end can ruin their mmr since there is no ban phase.
 
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jcalton

Junior Member
#14
friketje;n9514951 said:
But you need to practice a little and fool around with different decks. Also, for me at last, I like to get to rank 18 for keg rewards, I needed 90 games for this.
So 10-12 games needed a day is more reasonable, without taking a break of course and netdecking. I've you want to experiment with you're own decks you can add a couple of games to this.
That's a lot, to much imho.
I don't think 10-12 games per day is reasonable at all.
I THINK that's what you were trying to say as well. (?)

 

Muffliato

Moderator
#15
Post deleted. Please do not be rude towards others when posting on the forums.
 
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RickMelethron

Junior Member
#16
4RM3D;n9514891 said:
Unlike the normal ladder, the pro-ladder is all or nothing. You either push to the top or you might as well ignore the pro-ladder altogether. That's why it's only for pros. If it doesn't interest you, you can just ignore it and lose nothing.
you'd think the name "pro ladder" was enough indication that it was meant for professional players...

jcalton;n9531441 said:
I don't think 10-12 games per day is reasonable at all.
I THINK that's what you were trying to say as well. (?)
are you implying that playing 10-12 games a day is too much, or that the calculations are off?
 
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Archpriest

Junior Member
#17
Ok, what's the point of this thread? Can OP summarise it for a dense person like myself? I always thought it was for really dedicated players. You know, "pro" players. I'm on pro ladder but I don't think I can be arsed to spend that much effort into it. At least for now. Meaning, I do not plan to play there a lot if at all. Neither should anyone who isn't fully invested in this game.
 

Ejecutor-EU

Junior Member
#18
I tend to play on the professional ladder just to try out new decks vs some decent decks but I still prefer the normal ladder as the professional ladder rewards is not something I would like to get. The only thing that I would add to the pro ladder is some other reward like in the normal one, but I understand that most of the players could think that it is a bad idea.
 

DeathandTexas

Junior Member
#19
Even after reading all of this thread, i am not sure what the actual problem is, that people are complaining about.
All i can say is that pro ladder is amazing to play for me, it leads to a very diverse meta and i get to play people i consider to be more at my level than on the normal ladder. Because even if you are at around Rank 20 there, the level of play is really bad atm and i don't care about grinding all the way just to get good games. So only having to play pro ladder from now on means i can have only 100% relevant games all the time and i'm spared the normal ladder grind.
 

Esmer

Junior Member
#20
DeathandTexas;n9548811 said:
Even after reading all of this thread, i am not sure what the actual problem is, that people are complaining about.
The people are complaining that it takes a lot of time to play 400+ games needed to unlock 100% MMR on the pro ladder.

However, to me the problem is that there's no enough people on the pro ladder. I have to wait a couple minutes for a game, while it takes only seconds in Ranked and Casual.
But the diversity of decks on the Pro Ladder is amazing. I am fed up with netdecking Dagons and NR armor both in Casual and Ranked (I mostly play SK and NG).