Polish naming & addressing

[lycos]

Polish naming & addressing

Well even for off topic it is on the edge, but since I cant ask in the Polish forums (no speak Polish well ;D), I'll ask here to see how wrong I am with both conclusions, as web checking kept giving conflicting answers. And hopefully not come across as being rude. Q1) When reading through the Pan Karol dev blog, I thought that Pan was an odd first name. So I did a little searching and found that 'Pan' is roughly equivilant to "Mr" (with Pani being Ms and Panna being Miss). So technically it is called "Mr Karols Blog". However as (I assume) Karol is a given name it was not quite right. So following more reading I've boiled it down to the following, though I'll skip dimunitives as they are even more confusing at times.* Pan + Surname : Formal address (strangers)* Pan + Given name: Informal address. (co-workers and friends)* Given name only: Close friends and familyIs this correct , an obsolete way of it, or completely wrong?Q2) A lot of the developers names end in "-ski" (or -ska for women). Some reading compares Polish 'ski/ska' to the German 'von' which means "of the family" or the O' prefix from Ireland (the son of).Is this the case with polish names? Or is it a legacy from the past with no special meaning anymore?

 

[Corylea.723]

I'm sorry nobody answered this, because it seems like an interesting question. I can't answer because I don't know, either, but I didn't want you to think that your thread had been completely ignored.

 

[Gamewidow]

well gosh, if we are supporting posts, then i second that motion ... but i can no more give informationi did find this thread through google: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=841340and this seemed interesting: http://www.transparent.com/polish/dear-sirmadam/and from this seemingly academic treatment, i suspect that it's pretty tricky: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ459740&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ459740.. here's hoping one of our polish residents speaks up!

 

[lycos]

I'm sorry nobody answered this, because it seems like an interesting question. I can't answer because I don't know, either, but I didn't want you to think that your thread had been completely ignored.

Well, my question is obscure on a relatively obsucre part of the forum so I'm not overly worried. Just a niggling curiosity. ;D But poking around some for I found the suffix -ski/-cki/-dzki can also mean 'of the place' as well as 'of the family'. So could Geralt technically be known as Geralt Rivia-ski (Geralt of Rivia)? And since Geralt was granted the title by Rivia's queen it is technicnally a title like 'von'.Ah, thought of another - is 'Geralt' a real polish name like 'Fred' or 'Peter', or was it made up by Sapkowski? And since the books were released in Poland have people actually stared naming children 'Geralt'?

 

[Corylea.723]

You need to check out the thread "Real baby Geralt" -- Daerdin named his son Geralt.

 

[Flash]

cant wash smile from my face . its nice to see people interested in Polish language.1)

* Pan + Surname : Formal address (strangers)* Pan + Given name: Informal address. (co-workers and friends)* Given name only: Close friends and family

all of this is true but sometimes using "pan" (Mr) doesnt have to be treated seriously. for example, i cant imagine that "pan" in "Pan Karol" nickname is used to induce respect and dignity. its just a nickname. its a gaming community, we dont have to address ourselves "sir", "Mr" or something in this fashion.2) "ski"/"ska"/"dzki"/"cki" has nothing to do with "von", its just a typical Polish word ending, usually in adjectives but also often in surnames (which btw can be considered adjectives)."ski" is masculine ending, "ska" is feminine, we differentiate genders in word endings.

 

[lycos]

Dziekuję bardzo. (I think that is the correct way of saying it.)Thanks for the clarifications. I was trying to ensure I was correct in my assumptions, as some languages have very strict rules on how people are addressed. And even more rules on how to say things (for example in Mandarin a misplaced words/phrase can have a totally differing meaning). The book I checked regarding the -ski suffix must have been referring to an older use of the language or a differing dialect. Which is why I wanted to check with native speakers. ;DThough out of curiosity - are Polish taught English in schools? Or is it optional? I was wondering as it appears a lot of the Polish here speak very good english, while the average English speakers apility to speak polish has a lot to be desired.

and this seemed interesting: http://www.transparent.com/polish/dear-sirmadam/

And thanks for that link, as it covered the problem very well. While correct usage may say to use Pan/Pani it comes off as odd sounding and people lopok at you funny. 'Szanowny Panie' comes across as Honourable Sir (or 'dear sir'), but if someone started talking to you like that I think they would pack you off to the funny farm. I'm also didn't know that Warsaw was reconstructed after WW2 using 16th century Bellotto paintings. The interesting unrelated things you find out when asking about one topic More reading to do.....

 

[Gamewidow]

I can tell you that in canada, there is nowhere that Polish would be taught in public schools. there might be private, community funded schools which teach it in some areas if there is a sufficient concentration of Polish-speaking immigrants, but it is not standard anywhere. We are taught english (in quebec, french) and then optionally the "other" language (again, french or english).a few of the private schools and bigger schools in major cities might offer other languages like mandarin and spanish... that's it, so we try, but the resources are scant.

 

[Flash]

Cala przyjemnosc po mojej stronie (the pleasure is all mine)

But poking around some for I found the suffix -ski/-cki/-dzki can also mean 'of the place' as well as 'of the family'. So could Geralt technically be known as Geralt Rivia-ski (Geralt of Rivia)? And since Geralt was granted the title by Rivia's queen it is technicnally a title like 'von'.Ah, thought of another - is 'Geralt' a real polish name like 'Fred' or 'Peter', or was it made up by Sapkowski? And since the books were released in Poland have people actually stared naming children 'Geralt'?

-ski/-cki/-dzki at the end of the word might mean "of the place" or "of the family" but doesnt have to. its far from simplicity, we just dont use it that way because it sounds unnatural, though its still communicative. it could be used like this: geralt rivski which can be translated to English: rivian geralt. it is understandable but sounds strange, we dont use it.as for geralt name, it sounds Polish but i doubt if there's anyone called geralt in Poland . its another sapkowski's naming, he's very good at it. i imagine a Polish kid named geralt would have hard times in school. other children would importune and annoy him.

Though out of curiosity - are Polish taught English in schools? Or is it optional? I was wondering as it appears a lot of the Polish here speak very good english, while the average English speakers apility to speak polish has a lot to be desired.

every school, from elementary up to high school is teaching 2 foreing languages. 90% of the time one of them is English. apart from that every self-respectful teenager will learn English privately. our skill in English vary greatly but almost all young people know English on communicative level.i for example tend to make mistakes in grammar :'(

And thanks for that link, as it covered the problem very well. While correct usage may say to use Pan/Pani it comes off as odd sounding and people lopok at you funny. 'Szanowny Panie' comes across as Honourable Sir (or 'dear sir'), but if someone started talking to you like that I think they would pack you off to the funny farm. I'm also didn't know that Warsaw was reconstructed after WW2 using 16th century Bellotto paintings. The interesting unrelated things you find out when asking about one topic More reading to do.....

there's nothing wrong with "szanowny panie", just there are moments where you should use it and other when its out of place. i wouldnt call 'szanowny panie' anyone on the street but when writing official letter its a respectful way of addressing adult person.as for Polish history, eh.. our country was removed from the map for 123 years, from 1795-1918, then WW1, WW2 and up to 1989 we struggled with crippling comunism. hard times really but we are getting back in business a little of our history in the pill if you want: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=Quld5950v6w&mode=related&searchcheers and good night

 

[trybald]

Q2) A lot of the developers names end in "-ski" (or -ska for women). Some reading compares Polish 'ski/ska' to the German 'von' which means "of the family" or the O' prefix from Ireland (the son of).

Suffixes -ski and -ska ARE more or less equivalent of German "von", French "de" or Dutch "van". They are adjectives that indicate in many cases place of origin. For example - someone who lived in village named Kuchary was given a surname "Kucharski".

 

[Etainne]

This thread is interesting to me because I live in far west Texas, where nearly everyone speaks Spanish and English. It makes me wonder about the other most commonly taught language in Polish schools. My sister and I were discussing this thread and we wondered if the other most common foreign language is German or Russian or something else entirely. Is there a pronunciation guide for the phrase "Cala przyjemnosc po mojej stronie" you gave? Does Polish have any 'silent' letters?

 

[Flash]

most common second language in schools is german and french. russian was very popular but that was in times when we were under the influence of russian communism. that is past.i have no idea how to explain our pronunciation :hmmm: there should be some internet dictionary with phonetic spelling. i'll look for it.we dont have silent letters. our language have a lot of rustle sounds, many sibilants.

 

[Etainne]

I am going to look for something with sound at YouTube, so I can hear the language. Thanks for replying. We thought French might be one of them as well.

 

[trybald]

It makes me wonder about the other most commonly taught language in Polish schools.

English is definitely the most popular language in schools today. Second would be German. When I was at high school I had five hours of English each week and two hours of German. Significantly lower number of people learn French.Russian is largely ignored nowadays. That was never a popular language to begin with. It was artificially implemented during the communist rule.

Is there a pronunciation guide for the phrase "Cala przyjemnosc po mojej stronie" you gave?

Its approximately:"Tsawa pjiyeh-mnosch po moyeh-y stronieh.

Does Polish have any 'silent' letters?

No, but in some cases two letters represent one sound.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_languagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_phonology

 

[Flash]

oh. there's one important thing. when writing on the internet we ignore Polish letters to save time and because we understand the meaning regardless.'cala przyjemnosc po mojej stronie' outside the internet and in every formal and handwritten text should look like this:'cała przyjemność po mojej stronie'difference in these letters significantly change the pronunciation.

 

[Etainne]

So since we have wandered way off topic in this, Is there a "learn polish" entry in the forums, because I find all of this very interesting. I tried to pronounce some of those examples and they are very strange to my tongue. I took German and Latin in high school and Spanish in college, so i am used to learning other languages. i wanted to see if I could get anywhere with this without a tutor.Those wiki entries are a wealth of information. Thanks I am fascinated. I may just put the game into Polish dialogs and English subtitles.

 

[trybald]

Is there a "learn polish" entry in the forums, because I find all of this very interesting.

Haven't seen anything like that over here. Maybe this link will help you a bit:http://polish.slavic.pitt.edu

 

[lycos]

So since we have wandered way off topic in this, Is there a "learn polish" entry in the forums, because I find all of this very interesting.

If they did open a "lean polish" section, I wonder how long it would be before the native spakers go on a rampage after hearing/seeing the English spears mangle their language for the 10000 time. :teeth:

 

[vindici]

I may just put the game into Polish dialogs and English subtitles.

Done already Getting used to the sounds of Polish speech since I'm learning the language. Who knows, maybe I'll be reading Sapkowski in Polish in no time ;D

 

[Etainne]

just to update, I did switch over to listen to Polish, it is a uniquely strange experience when 'Texas twang' is what I'm used to hearing. That the game developers included this in the EE is wonderful!