Poll: do we want to have the ability to reset (respec) stats? Let's find out what our consensus is!

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

"Everything"? This a joke, right? =)

That'd require playing every last gig, side mission and encounter multiple times: 1st time "specced" (and properly geared, too) as a hacker; 2nd time - as a melee; 3rd time - as a sniper; etc. Same for dialogs: 1st time high Int, then after completing any particular mission - reload earlier save, respec to "low Int", play the mission 2nd time; 3rd time - similarly lowering / upping some other dialog-affecting stats, etc.

Frankly, even if there are some players who'd enjoy this sorta thing - i say hey let 'em, they still play all the content way more than once.

And if you merely meant "getting to every secret place and earning all the big rewards" - this actually does not require multiple different playthroughs even as it is, with extremely few exceptions. In general, the game's designed around "high stat checks allow easy ways in, but there are harder ways to get things which do not require high stats, but require more attention / time from the player".

For an example, there is a side mission where V is asked to take out a club owner who went too bloodthirsty when doing his own recent gig, and there is a door in the club with tech requirement = 19. Behind it is some quality loot and a bit of story. However, same room is also possible to enter by going over or through obstacles and reaching another door to the room which has no stat requirement at all. Similarly, practically all such places also have either some destructible environment (windows, vertical entrances, even walls sometimes - heck, very 1st mission where V saves a girl outta scavengers' ice bath has a destructible wall), or access rights / codes for alternate entry, or ways to jump into it, etc. Which is, indeed, good game design exactly intended for players to be able to experience "everything" in one go.

Next, what about gender / romances? Stat respecs do not allow to change gender / possible love interests, you know.

Also, it gets even worse with some player choices, you know. For example, one can betray Panam at certain point, which eventually leads to specific extra content, including getting one free (and rather fancy) car - but then, of course, one won't be driving a tank with Panam, and one won't be getting one certain specific ending, too. Stats play a role in such choices in some occasions, but most of the time they don't.

So yeah. Must be a joke. Good one.

No, not a joke. Though it has to be a joke that you assumed so much, and incorrectly, about my very short post just so you could write a tldr rant about stuff my post had nothing to do with lol. Good one.

I thought we where talking about stat points in this thread?
So, given that, I figured it would be obvious that was what I was talking about by "everything".
Meaning try "everything" as far a stats are concerned. Seemed obvious to me but clearly I was mistaken.
I wasn't talking about story, missions, gigs, etc. blah blah blah.
I was only talking about stats points as that is what this thread is about.

So yeah. Good one.

 

[Jack_point]

No, not a joke. Though it has to be a joke that you assumed so much, and incorrectly, about my very short post just so you could write a tldr rant about stuff my post had nothing to do with lol. Good one.

I thought we where talking about stat points in this thread?
So, given that, I figured it would be obvious that was what I was talking about by "everything".
Meaning try "everything" as far a stats are concerned. Seemed obvious to me but clearly I was mistaken.
I wasn't talking about story, missions, gigs, etc. blah blah blah.
I was only talking about stats points as that is what this thread is about.

So yeah. Good one.

Good catch sir. Well defended.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

You are, obviously, right. I am not entirely against having the ability to reset stats (although I tend to agree with
WingedArchon's statement in this thread). I just do not feel the need to use such mechanic in this particular game. That's why I was trying to find out what would you need this ability for in CP2077 if you decided to role-play as e.g. a netrunner.

But I am well aware that some players would like to have this possibility. That's fine.

As for the shooting contests... correct me if I am wrong... right now there are no level requirements for the perks which allow faster reloading (for revolvers and pistols) and better aiming (for rifles). Only perks which allow less recoil and faster reloading (for rifles) have some (not that demanding) limitations. Not that it matters much in the context of this conversation, because one still has to invest some experience points in order to use them (even if it might not require resetting the ability points).



I have no doubt that you are very skilled in shooting, but IMHO this quest is really that easy. I am no professional (or hardcore) player and yet I managed to hit almost all of the targets (with the exception of one) in required time during my second attempt (with the use of a mouse) and win the contest.

Seems you think i was bragging up there about shooting. Expected you to recognise i wasn't; the point was the state of the game - not my particular ways in it. There are many others who find it "too easy" for exactly same reason, which is obvious from many other posts of the sort (including yours just above), as well as from merely realizing how numerous are FPS players these days around. Including yourself.

Yes, you are correct about handguns reload perk being available at Reflexes = 3. it was wrong to mention this particular perk related to higher Reflexes stat; somehow i thought it needs a bit more points in Reflexes, my bad. Sorry about that. ><

But in the same time, it ain't "just" less recoil perk which is locked into higher Reflexes stat, in terms of possibly helping with shooting contests. There are also allow aim while dodging (12) and allow shooting while dodging (18) perks.

You may be wondering how the last two apply to shooting contests, perhaps? It's because we discussed "mainly netrunner" in particular, above. Means, no 'ware for slo-mo would normally be installed in the cyberdeck slot. However, Kerenzikov is still possible to use, and even much desirable exactly for a netrunner; thus, last two perks should allow to get lots of extra effective aiming / shooting time, making it much easier to achieve top score.

And then, in any and all gunfights against actual enemies, many other Handgun perks become handy for any netrunner who discovers that sometimes quickhacks are not possible, or not desirable, to use and yet some sort of (usually stealthy) ranged attack is still desired. Such occasions are not many, yes, but in the same time it's not just "one or two gigs".

Give you another example: there is some gig where V is sent into some big Arasaka building to recover contents of some ex-Arasaka suit car, and guards in there are completely immune to combat quickhacks, at least when being "skull" higher-level than V. V's only choices are then to either try to infiltrate two floors going through multiple partolling enemies who are easily detecting V, or rely on a high-crit multipler silenced weapon. Obviously can't even grab 'em one by one when they are skull-high. What would you choose in such situations (again there is more than one - quite a few such occasions) if it's your own real butt going in?

Last but not least, we regularly see NPC netrunners and techies wielding typically pistols. This includes Judy and even very 1st netrunner V happens to "meet" - Sandra Dorsett, who in certain (much) later encounter may be seen wielding quite solid iron:

Given all that, i fail to see how you could even question possibility for V to decide he/she needs way more punch outta his/her iron, at some point. And currently if that point is late enough, little to nothing can be done perk-wise, and they are locked behind the stat.

For other kinds of builds, again - similar story.

Post automatically merged: Feb 4, 2021

... so you could write a tldr rant ...

I wrote informative, possibly tldr for some, well-tempered response. It is you who then wrote tldr rant. Did not read past this part. Sorry.

 

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

I wrote informative, possibly tldr for some, well-tempered response. It is you who then wrote tldr rant. Did not read past this part. Sorry.

No need to be sorry. Everyone makes mistakes once in awhile. Apology accepted.

 

[HazadoV]

I think an increasing price item like first time 10 k, then 100k, then 1 million would be good.
But I wouldn't care if it was unlimited.

 

[TyraWadman]

Considering there were perks that I never actually got the chance to use/it didn't work, it would have been nice to at least earn that point back. I do understand WHY they probably don't... it's because they don't want you swapping points on the fly to get around every door or dialogue choice.

But I sure as heck woulda had a better time if I could at least see/test how these abilities worked BEFORE acquiring them. I wouldn't have bothered putting my extra points into Cool.

 

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

Considering there were perks that I never actually got the chance to use/it didn't work, it would have been nice to at least earn that point back.

You can already reset perk points. That been in the game since release.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

You can already reset perk points. That been in the game since release.

Perk points, he can reset, yes. Points he spent into Cool which he now regrets - no, he can't get back.

Means he can't unlock some other perks still locked behind some other stat which he has lower than required by those other perks - those points spent in Cool become wasted in this regard, for him.

Similarly, most people end up "overspent" in a stat or few - unless they'd plan whole build in advance with precise knowledge how they want it be. Which is more like tedious research work than playing a game for fun. Or they'd need to play nearly same build twice, instead: 1st time to see "how things work", 2nd time to actually do the build they enjoy the most. Which pretty much nobody does, because doing another playthrough with some very different build is lots more fun.

Those are very much some of basic, universal reasons behind limited and/or very expensive abiltity to respec, which modern cRPGs usually offer.

 

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

Similarly, most people end up "overspent" in a stat or few - unless they'd plan whole build in advance with precise knowledge how they want it be. Which is more like tedious research work than playing a game for fun.

This is a problem with players not the game in my opinion.

Also it is not beholden on the Devs to add an extra feature, while small, to the game cause players can't be bothered to read a few tooltips in game before spending points, or because some other game has said feature, in my opinion.

You don't need to go online and research anything. Just read what is there in front of you in the game.

I did not have this problem because I read what the perks do in game before taking them since you can see all of them from the start.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

In a sci-fi future where you can replace almost anything biological and even transfer psyches across virtualia, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to reset both perks and attributes.
Want to forget being able to use firearms? Roll a BD that blocks those neural pathways in your brain.
Need stronger physique(a.k.a. Body attribute)? Enter titanium bones and motorized joints.
The reasons why we should be able to reset everything are blatantly obvious.
Now, whether we do this on the fly or we have to visit a ripperdoc or ask Judy to flush us, that's a different topic.

Refer to the bold pieces, these are also the exact reasons why you shouldn't.
Its also for a reason why cyberware is permanent

 

[TyraWadman]

This is a problem with players not the game in my opinion.

Also it is not beholden on the Devs to add an extra feature, while small, to the game cause players can't be bothered to read a few tooltips in game before spending points, or because some other game has said feature, in my opinion.

You don't need to go online and research anything. Just read what is there in front of you in the game.

I did not have this problem because I read what the perks do in game before taking them since you can see all of them from the start.

The things might have been explained yes, but not all worked as intended/expected. XD

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

The things might have been explained yes, but not all worked as intended/expected. XD

Regretfully that is an issue with the game in its current state. And I can understand the added sentiment why people then would want to swap stuff around. However then it makes it a discussion on "we want this, because the game isnt working right"

Personally I find this discussion much more targetted about the principle itself and then I firmly stay with my reasoning.
To reiterate. What would be the point of respecing your character to suit whatever the need is at the time. I do not know of an RPG game that allows for this, specifically base stats. (Refer to the 5-points of CP, the SPECIAL system of FO etc)
A game good environment design wojld allow for at least 2 to 3 ways to accomplish stuff, of which one would be utilisation of the attributes you'd invest into. In other situation when you do not meet an attribute check, then there should other option, maybe more dangerous, or more sneaky of whatever.

Just to putnit out there also, I build my V as I go and look into what stat or perk I think is helpfull and if I am not sure, I do not spend points. But my general approach is a high HP level character build for endurance. And I like myself some sniper action (usually with some other means of short ranged defence. I then first try a find a loadout I like before I start heavilh investing to max that. But generally I never truly min/max anything with exception of HP is this a go-to build, most likely not. But thats the point. Personally I never been fond of 'buildguides' I never use them, if others do, thats fine. But they'd be wasted on me.
I agree with one thing though: IF it was supposed to able, it should cost a hefty lot of resources. And I mean a lot.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

This is a problem with players not the game in my opinion.

Also it is not beholden on the Devs to add an extra feature, while small, to the game cause players can't be bothered to read a few tooltips in game before spending points, or because some other game has said feature, in my opinion.

You don't need to go online and research anything. Just read what is there in front of you in the game.

I did not have this problem because I read what the perks do in game before taking them since you can see all of them from the start.

You know, i was initially thinking exactly the same thing: "oh i'll read descriptions attentively and it'll be just OK". Man was i wrong. I'm surprised you wouldn't notice that there is some very misleading info there.

An example of this - is gorilla hands' description's part about doors, which goes, quote: "Gorilla Arms also allow you to force open locked doors and rip turrets from their bases". So early in the game, i found this info browsing some ripperdoc's 'ware, and after learning some doors requires higher "body" stat (started with 3), planned to rely on arms to deal with such doors. And since early 'ware priority for my V was to get other things 1st - better (mk3) eyes, epic-tier legs (quite expensive) and better cyberdecks, also subdermal armor, - it was quite a long time before i actually got the arms.

Which is when i found that i can't "force open" any doors with 'em. By which time i already had Intellect 20 iirc (beelined it all the way ASAP), which, of course, can't be undone (without mods, and i don't use mods - so far, at least). In my particular case, i don't regret it though, as the plan was to play "physically weak" V all the same, no matter the doors - but i can imagine similar experience would piss off quite many other players.

Another example many folks are quite furious about - is throwing knives perks. Getting required stat and getting those perks seem great "on paper", but sadly, it's actual knives from V's inventory which this ability uses - one per throw, and they can't be recovered, so every throw = 1 knife lost for good.

Another example is complete four-immunities perk deep in Cold Blood tree, which some players may wish to obtain early on, seeing it as one highly desirable feature - possibly to find much later on that those immunities are better obtained from gear, not from perk, and thus possibly investing way too much into Cool stat, which can't be undone.

The list goes on. It's plenty cases when reading tooltips is either misleading, or producing far suboptimal results in terms of late-game. Another reason to allow reasonably limited stat respec mechanic.