Its impossible to know what GTA6 is doing, I really doubt even Rockstar thesmelves knew how big its gonna get. Ive thought of it little bit and theres so many good cards they can play.
I'm not seeing too many parallels between GTA and CP2077. I don't imagine CP will share any more in common with GTA than TW3 did.
In terms of music, I think it's going to boil down to a lot of different flavors and styles all playing off of each other to create ambiance, establish various character and story elements, and as audio cues that heighten certain scenes. Ever since this conversation began, one thing I started considering more strongly is repetition. Obviously, I want a certain "sound" associated with certain things (like any production), but I think CP2077 stands to benefit more from a greater variety than most other games. But too much repetition might start to feel too narrow, perhaps clashing with the vision I have for my V.
In the end, I don't think having a set "theme" play for most aspects would be as effective as a certain musical quality play. I also think having enough variety that the players have the option of creating their own "playlists" that they use to identify with their own character would be a huge hit.
In terms of music, I think it's going to boil down to a lot of different flavors and styles all playing off of each other to create ambiance, establish various character and story elements, and as audio cues that heighten certain scenes. Ever since this conversation began, one thing I started considering more strongly is repetition. Obviously, I want a certain "sound" associated with certain things (like any production), but I think CP2077 stands to benefit more from a greater variety than most other games. But too much repetition might start to feel too narrow, perhaps clashing with the vision I have for my V.
In the end, I don't think having a set "theme" play for most aspects would be as effective as a certain musical quality play. I also think having enough variety that the players have the option of creating their own "playlists" that they use to identify with their own character would be a huge hit.
Specimen #153 - Rain in Hell
Street Cleaner - Murdercycle
Preturbator - God Complex
i'm not great at creating a story based on anothers persons story and world
I largely agree. The context I mention the two in pertains only to SCOPE of content in relation to game size, and that both games are set in open worlds. To my mind, the game requires a LOT of music for the reasons you mention.
- Variety: different flavors and styles all playing off of each other to create ambiance
- establish various character and story elements
- audio cues that heighten certain scenes.
- Avoiding repetition.
I 100% agree with you. This is a risk area from my perspective. One reason I'm referencing Rockstar titles here is the amount of content required to musically fill out 50 to 100+ hours of gameplay. Even with a score, original music and 200 or so licensed tracks dedicated almost exclusively to radio, there was still a lot of repetition.
Can you explain a bit more what you mean by this? I want to make sure I'm understanding before I try to respond.
Completely agree. I would like to see that as well. But in order for that to be possible, you'd need a seriously deep content pool to popluate those playlists with. So before anything, this becomes a SCOPE question.
Yup. That's what you got me thinking about. And (ironically enough, despite what I said above
) GTA is a great parallel here. GTA V's music especially: the "talk shows", the selection of existing IP that really captured the various cultures and lifestyles in Los Santos -- or, more importantly -- the very direct and obvious satire of those lifestyles and cultures.The difference, is that GTA never tried to peel back too many onion layers. It existed at face value, and that's part of its charm. It slaps readers around with its messages up-front. It never takes itself too seriously. Like all good satire, it switches things up on the player regularly: making you laugh...then evoking more serious thoughts immediately afterward. Reducto ad absurdum at some of its best! But...the music...was not that important. It was underscore.
CP2077, though I know very little of its lore, I think was much more heavily inspired by music. I think "music" is an intrinsic force that identifies and drives the entire Cyberpunk universe. Having grown up in the '80s and '90s, I can see a direct relationship between the visual artwork of CP2020 and the music of the times. It's obvious to me that music permeated almost every aspect of building and evolving this world. It's not Blade Runner...it's Jon Bon Jovi's brain-in-a-jar later implanted into a cybernetic body to continue rocking out on-stage in a Night City slum. (Sorry, Jon. Just an example.)
So, yeah. I think this game can't possibly have too much musical variety. I know file size is a brutal consideration, but I'd opt to push sound design more than graphics for this one.
Of course. Let's take Jackson's Lord of the Rings films as a comparison. There's a theme of Hobbiton. There's a theme of Mordor. There's a theme of Isengard, Lorien, Rohan, Gondor... Every time we want to establish one culture or another, the exact same theme will play. Variations, sure! But the same, recognizable theme. The same, very identifiable melody.
I'd avoid that like the plague for CP2077.
Rather than establishing a "theme" for one culture or another, I'd rather establish a "quality". And I'd do everything I could to avoid repeating the same melody. So, say I want to identify the "Corporate" areas with orchestral-synth-rock. I'd ensure that I introduced each, individual, establishing shot of the corporate area with a different, classical piece adapted to synth-rock. That would accomplish three things:
1.) Letting music strain its voice in the Cyberpunk world.
2.) Ensuring that I could return to select, very identifiable melodies with MASSIVE impact.
...and...
3.) Making any sort of a sequel a challenge that left me unable to sleep at night. (Which is cool.
I like that type of challenge.)
Indeed. This is why I don't shy away from satire BUT only apply it to use cases where the culture *should* be satirized in Night city, rather than universally. IMHO, it should provide contrast to all of the wet neon doom and gloom as contrast. So the harshness of that world hits the player like a sledgehammer in the teeth when it DOES happen. Contrast is important.
My thoughts exactly. Mike's vision of Cyberpunk always struck me as "go down swinging." That mindset pemeates EVERYTHING. It's NOT Blade Runner and never has been. BR is one possible story that could exist within the Cyberpunk world and not vice versa. Trying to cram all of what Cyberpunk is into that tiny box would whittle it down to a tiny piece of what makes it great.
Additionally, it's why I don't constrain myself by era. If the music is a CULTURE fit it's worth considering. That said, I find music from the early 80's up until the present to work best. BUT, I'm not dogmatic either. I get the sense that some people have a "Not MY Cyberpunk" reaction to anything that isn't Industrial, Techno, Trance, etc. What I personally think is hanging them up is being locked into the counterculture movements of a specific time frame in their lives. But Cyberpunk should always be evolving. Iconoclasm is the entire point.
Agreed. And sound compression has gotten pretty damned good. I have quite literally thousands of tracks I'm reviewing constantly (several hours every day), and they don't eat up a ton of my drive. If anything, budget would likely be the constraint for CDPR, which is part of why at least 80% of my curated tracks follow the "bang for the buck" approach. So that you can go big where needed and ALSO have a massive scope of content.
And it's another reason I've pushed for a layered approach. Because to do 2077 right, you need SCORE, Original music, AND a metric ton of licensed music. This game isn't just about hopping in a car and cruising like GTA. Yeah that's an option. But Rockerboys are a cornerstone of this world. Chromers are too. As are clubs. As are gangs. And different districts with their own cultures. If those bases aren't covered musically, it isn't Cyberpunk. Everyone needs a unique musical voice.
Ah, I see what you mean. Some of that is beyond my ability to even speculate on as that's Marcin's score. But from the licensed music curation side, I've tried to get around that issue by pursuing a CULTURE based approach instead of a GENRE based approach. It's not always possible, but it's a methodology that I think is better suited to Cyberpunk. What I'm attempting to answer is "How do people react to this dystopia?" Are they "the good Germans?" Are they the Resistance? Or are they just going to chase escapism while it all burns around them?
100% chasing that goal, crash or burn. I don't even think CDPR is paying attention to what I'm doing, but "go down swinging".
Some of that will be how music is used. From the licensed side, I'm very fond of multiple different interpretations of songs that fit (remixes, covers, mash-ups, etc.) So that's defintately do-able if they wanted to do so beyond the score.
Making any sort of a sequel a challenge that left me unable to sleep at night. (Which is cool.
My favorite kinds of challenges.
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