Polygon article regarding race in TW3 with a fantastic reply in comments section

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Polygon article regarding race in TW3 with a fantastic reply in comments section

I just read an article on Polygon which made me slightly irritated - link to the article:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/3/8719389/colorblind-on-witcher-3-rust-and-gamings-race-problem

Here is a fantastic reply to it in the comments section. I couldn't have put this better myself:



It’s fantasy and not based on any real place or time period.

That’s false. It doesn’t take place in a real time place or period, but it is based on one. It’s based on Slavic mythology and in particular Poland in a particular place in time, which is why a lot of the monsters in the game are actually ones that feature prominently in Slavic mythology.

The world of The Witcher 3 is one that takes the area around Poland and other Slavic countries in the middle ages (and its cultures, mythologies, traditions, architecture etc.) as its starting point – and then imagines what that might translate to if those myths were actually real, with some fictionalised editing of geography.

In the same way that in Game of Thrones, yes it’s fiction, but the countries/kingdoms/races of that world are based on real-life ones (For example, Dorne is inspired by Spain), even if they’ve changed the geography and other aspects.


And even if it were attempting to be accurate, the idea of eastern Europe as having been 100% white, at nearly any point in its history, is a fairytale.


While it’s never been 100% white, Poland (the country the developers are based in, the writer of the books on which this are based is from, and the country inspiration is drawn from for the Witcher universe) is one of the least ethnically diverse countries in Europe. 97.7% ethnic white Polish and that rises to 98.6% if you include Europeans in the country generally. Even during the middle ages Poland was still almost entirely white, with the only non-Poles still being white Europeans – mainly from around the Slavic area, particularly Russia. The story is largely the same for other Slavic countries.

I think part of the problem here is, because this site is mainly written for and read by Americans, those people take an American-centric view. They project 21st century American racial demographic diversity onto medieval Poland and then get upset about the comparative lack of diversity. This is a game by Polish developers, based on a world and series of books written in Polish by a Polish author, which was in turn inspired by medieval Slavic culture/mythology – at no point should it be surprising that the game world is no more ethnically diverse than the reality on which that world is based.

I’ve got a lot of time for arguments surrounding social justice, and actually Polygon’s push for it is one of the things I enjoy most about this site. It’s just this particular example of The Witcher 3 that I have a problem with, because to me it is a) nonsense and b) exemplifies the American-centric worldview of a great number of those on the internet, accentuated by the fact that most of the people Americans on the internet communicate with will be other Americans.
 
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A really well written comment. The thing is, it's pointless, unless it really ends up wide spread and reaches the target audience, i.e. people who are sharing the same view and / or read the article and thought it to be truth.

I personally tend to ignore stupid baseless opinions written by ignorant people, be it media reporters, extreme feminists, or just random people on the internet. I used to have the urge to comment and show the "world" they are wrong, but I outgrew it. As long as the companies I have a high opinion of and respect act the same, it doesn't bother me.

EDIT: The in-game thingie that was changed in Pillars of Eternity due to the rage about it was extremely disappointing. Regarding the W3 sex scenes, I'm not sure if they are underwhelming [in my opinion] compared to W2 because they just didn't put as much work on it, or because of fear of a backlash. I'd be really disappointed if it's the latter.
 
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You know, the best thing to do about Polygon is to ignore them…

Personally, even if it wasn’t based on a white-centric environment and had only white characters that would be no problem for me. But that’s just me not being a bigot or a witch hunter. Oh well.
Some Americans are like this it seems. If I were them I would fight for the rights of black people in real life (re: Fergusson). What the USA are doing often turns out to be an on-paper equality – it seems scary that black people in certain parts of America can get shot for no reason and no trial follows. In Europe we are not aggressive when it comes to quotas and things like that and we have better enforcement of rights in practise for everyone – that’s the difference between equal form and equal rights.

Edit: Also, there is no point in trying to give a context to the game or reason with them. They have been presented with this after their precedent articles and they just kept saying the same things over and over again.
 
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Lol polygon....They are the jesters of gaming reviews. They put a lower score on TW3 just because there was a poor representation of women in the game. This tell me so much about their "professionalism"......bunch of clowns
 
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lol, fact and reason dont work here

we must push social justice agenda

polygon gona polygon

 
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That article is full of gems. I did not think Polygon was capable of sinking even lower when it comes to their anti-intellectualism, but they did just that.

Also it is racist as fuck and lumps all "white cultures" into a single pot (yeah, I know, can't be racist against the cracka). Maybe the author could try to make some research the next time he attempts to demonize developers from a country that went through decades of oppression by his fellow far left ideologues for creating something based on their own culture, which has been on the verge of destruction more than few times in the last 4 centuries.

The "predominantly white" slavic devs "whitewashing their own game" is just a cherry on the top:hatsoff:

Checked the dude's twitter and he really does not seem to have it right in the head when it comes to "white people".
 
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What next? You gonna post anita sarkisyan here?
pls stop reading this bullshit and paying attention to it. By doing so you only make them a favor
 
Here's another fantastic comment echoing the previous one:

The whole "it’s not history, its fantasy" argument is incredibly unfair for several reasons.
I’ts not as easy as saying "well, they’ve put in a dragons and elves, so why not a black person?". As it happens slavic myths on which this game is based, do mention Dragons and Elves. They say almost nothin about people of colour. The world of Witcher is not some random neverland. It’s not the continent of Dragon Age which is basically a blank slate, that is not refferencing any stylistic, hitorical period or culture. There are certain fantasy franchises whose stylistical DNA allows them to be filled with whatever the creators want. Witcher is not that type of setting.

This series is not some run of the mill, post-Tolkien, Western rpg, haphasardly pieced together from various popculture and storytelling tropes. This is a world heavily, heavily entrenched in the history and culture of a specific place and period, with historical references being woven in to virtually every detail of the game. Sapkowski’s approach was in many ways similar to that of Tolkien’s whose Middle Earth was not some random fantasy setting, but rather was intended as alternative, mythological retalling of european folklore, as seen through the eyes of the anglo-saxons It’s the same with Witcher except the anglo-saxons are replaced by the slavs. Expecting token ethnic characters in such a story, would be like criticising a game set in feudal japan, for not featuring black NPC’s. Reversing this logic, I could lament that there are no white or black people in Disney’s Mulan for example. After all, for all it’s historical background, that story also features a talkin dragon.

Saying "it’s fantasy, they can mould it however they want" could be applied to literally any work of fiction, as an unfair way of forcing the creators to insert elements that don’t fit with their chosen setting.

However, probably the most ridiculous thing in all the articles mentioning the lack of ethnich characters, is that they completely fail to note that there’s probably not a single game in the history of this industry, that tackles the subjects of racial inequality, disenfranchisment and cruelty towards miniorities, as well as The Witcher. Hell, it’s been one of the main themes of the entire series (especially in 1). Granted, it’s been shown through the examples of elves, and dwarves (as well as various ‘ungodly freaks’ amongs humans), but that’s beside the point. It doesnt make it any less true. I think that for a game series, which relies so heavily on showing instances of human intolarence, for anything remotely out of the norm, to recieve so much backlash for lack of POC, shows that a certain – I don’t want to say SJW, as I hate that word – too sensitive crowd, is starting it eat it’s own tail, when it comes to critiquing pop culture.
 
I hate the Polygon review. It's the worst Witcher 3 review written so far.

About half of the review is about ethnicity issues and Witcher 3 not being politically correct.

Bunch of pretentious buffoons.
 
They are like children acting out for attention. The worst thing anyone could do, what they want you to do, is register on their website and debate.
 
I just read an article on Polygon which made me slightly irritated - link to the article:


Poor Polygon, paddling away in the kiddie pool, it wants to get in the ocean with the big people, but it just can't stop being shallow, apron-grabbing, and smelling faintly of wee.

It is completely immaterial whether there are a quota of Benetton models in the game, they are simply not required to represent & tackle racism etc in a Fantasy world populated with other races. Good writers wouldn't need to be told theres metaphors galore in the Witcherworld, I imagine good writers wouldn't dogmatically insist on an inappropriately modern cast either, or insist propaganda should be prioritised over artistic integrity.

Polygon, clearly in need of some talent.
 
Esbia, your post reads very anti American, at least from the plain text and your use of "American centric" like that is some keyword to validate your argument. Let me say this also, I am American and when I use the internet it is not to speak with or interact with other Americans, so that little statement you made, with my one declaration is now false. You assume, you lie, you provide no real facts. I had no idea you are the one going to every single house hold in the USA, knocking on the doors, coming in and asking to the next random family..."You are American, to whom are you speaking on the internet?".

Lets address your opinion first, and that is all it is, an uneducated opinion based on nothing, certainly not history and certainly not fact. The Witcher's world DOES NOT EXIST, there is no argument you have that can change that fact, no matter how many soapboxes you stack to gain attention. See, easy, that's taken care of, now on to some of your favorite quotes and other opinions.

This quote by you Esbia: "This this this x100000. Although European human rights isn't perfect and there's still a lot to be done, it's much better than the US." You have no clue when it comes to human rights, and the quote is an uninformed joke. In your country or in the USA. Unless you are one of the people in the situation causing the problem or one of the trained people correcting that problem you have zero right to comment. Like the media you blow things out of proportion and rarely show both sides of any story to gain viewers. Posting on things you read about in the media simply makes you look foolish.

Esbia, and any other commenter here that would like to quote world atrocities or current problems by country, line for line, you let me know. You will see how blind and single minded you folks really are. You criticize any other country and yet the one you live in is just as bad or has had history that is far worse.

Your straw man argument about fantasy not being fair in comparison, its mind boggling. You actually try to quantify this by stating, by actually typing "its not fair" You have no clue what you show other people you are like when you do that.

Esbia, you have a problem and it isn't what the game is about, its what YOU THINK the game is about. That turns your own arguments against you. In the simplest form you see some imagined slight and then try to bring real world politics and problems into that argument to somehow.....beyond all hope, think that people will support your deranged thought process by staging quotes and real world snippets. You are the one with the problem, you are the one complaining. You are the one trying to counter every single argument that is posted and then turning around and supporting those that have no basis in fact. You need help with your version of reality in a bad way.
 
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Guys who talk about how it SHOULD be Lilly white confuse me.

What color do you think Zerkannians should be?

And why don't we see any of those?
 
Again, there's nothing wrong with representing a variety of races in the Witcher.

It was populated by a bunch of humans taken via magical gate.

Also, they're canonical in the setting to be a wide variety of races.

I say this as someone who hates Polygon.
 
Really, we are gonna get on the subject of who didn't steal a damn thing? Really, here?
Really, you are going to try and inject points that were not said in order to have an argument. Guess my post hit a nerve with you.
 
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