Positioning - Is cdpr really nailed it ?

[GW3NTLORD]

Positioning - Is cdpr really nailed it ?

Hello... so as cdpr released last positioning patch by creating thread in news section with title "One update to position them all..." so is that really justify the new positioning mechanism?

For me at least NO, Yes I know this is still in beta, more cards are yet to come but still is positioning only means adding abilities like select this & then do something to its adjacent cards or X left / right cards really?

So I really want to suggest cdpr to add more positioning factor to decide what to choose from. Few Suggestions below...

i] If cards on row > left to right > high strength to low strength > gain +1 strength every turn. i.e 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 1 etc. OR
If cards on row > right to left > low strength to high strength > remove -1 strength from same opp. row every turn. i.e 1 | 2 | 4 | 5 | 8 | 10 etc.

Of course above mechanism is only going to work if there is 3 or more cards on row.
Now in above example +1 / -1 strength effect can be change to something else the main point is to positioning cards either way but if you have gold card between bronze / silver then you are going to loose advantage for buff cards & that's the point here that you have to choose what is more beneficial for you or what cards you have in your hand. If no buff cards then may be above way or if having buff card then putting bronze / silver together is good & even you can achieve both effects at same time only.

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Few other possibilities.......

ii] If three same strength but different [ no instance ] bronze cards on row together then do something...
iii] You can add advantage or disadvantage for the unit types which are together on same row. May be as par game story & relation between them like....
- wildhunt units + witcher together going to add bad effect so you have to position them properly not to activate that effect.
- medic + wounding unit will trigger something like may be medic going to heal left / right wounding unit for +1 strength each turn.
- witch hunter + mage bad effect
- witcher + mage good effect

These are just a suggestions to give positioning more meaning. All constructive replies are welcome.... Thanks.

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P.S

One thing I want to add that.. this abilities which I suggested above are going to be global abilities, I mean those are not going to be explained or print on cards but if something match as par global rule then it's going to be trigger automatically. like....

3 same strength different bronze cards are together then do this...
If witcher + mage is near then do this...
If spy is near nay non-gold unit then do this..
Something like that as par game relations... of course there are going to be simple abilities which will not going to add too much difference but still it's important related to positioning of cards.

So that we going to have more abilities on cards like...
- change position of non-gold card
- add 0 strength dummy card to opp. side on any row
- select 3 cards & keep there strength as it is but set unequally. I mean if 5 | 5 | 5 then it's going to be 4 | 6 | 5 or any random no. but total to 15 only.

& may be adding this global abilities on hotkey is another good way to check them quickly.

Again all abilities / numbers are just for suggestion only, the whole idea is to make more use of positioning & other so called useless cards... Thanks.

 

[nhk3]

I agree there's little variety in positioning mechanics right now, but it's not always easy to think of something different, yet easily applicable. Maybe a card that buffs non-adjacent units could be useful, but it would instantly turn into an auto-include.
Comments on your suggestions:
i) Just No. We've had enough of row-affecting cards, even Lacerate is slightly OP as it currently stands. Even if it weren't row-spanning there's much added complexity for too little variety in gameplay, and simply mentally tracking the changes to strength values will be a nightmare.
ii) Interesting idea, which could be implemented as a Faction passive or Leader power. However it has nothing to do with positioning.
iii) Interesting, but too convoluted. Maybe it could be refined into something simpler.

The best part about Gwent is the strategic depth of gameplay which doesn't resort to complicated mechanics like most CCGs. Adding in too much complexity would be detrimental to the game and dare I say to our enjoyment of it.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

Thanks for your reply.

Comments on your suggestions:
i) Just No. We've had enough of row-affecting cards, even Lacerate is slightly OP as it currently stands. Even if it weren't row-spanning there's much added complexity for too little variety in gameplay, and simply mentally tracking the changes to strength values will be a nightmare.

You missed the point.. I said effect going to trigger if there is 3 or more cards on row with high to low or in low to high strength position so it'sfor every row & more row you use you can get more benefit for it & it's a a fix effects which will not get advantage from more cards on row. It's not like if you put all cards in one row then you will get better version of effect... nope.

ii) Interesting idea, which could be implemented as a Faction passive or Leader power. However it has nothing to do with positioning.

Yes is dose. currently few bronze or lets say few cards in every color are so called useless but with this & good effect may be players going to use same strength different bronze units to get X effect so that we going to see more unused cards as well as more strategies on above all suggestions.

iii) Interesting, but too convoluted. Maybe it could be refined into something simpler.

Yehhh it's quite complicated but if handle carefully it's very interesting & going to put positioning into another level as well it's going to add some story wise gameplay like good effect with friend near friend or bad effect when enemy with enemy is near or if near spy then some effect etc.

This is just a basic suggestion the whole point is to add something good into positioning to give it more meaning which will result in more variety in decks & strategies.

 

[nhk3]

On point ii) - I am assuming the cards need to be next to each other ? Otherwise having 3 units with the same strength on a row hardly counts as positioning.

You have interesting ideas but if they're implemented as cards, they probably won't see much play versus cards that buff adjacent units without an added condition. If they're implemented as a game mechanic - this will directly undermine the best part of Gwent, being easy to learn but difficult to master. The learning curve will become so high that it will turn new players off and players like me will straight out leave. Though that might be a blessing in my case, because I find myself addicted to the game.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

On point ii) - I am assuming the cards need to be next to each other ? Otherwise having 3 units with the same strength on a row hardly counts as positioning

"ii] If three same strength but different [ no instance ] bronze cards on row together then do something..." yes like 5 | 5 | 5 so lets say all three cards are going to gain 2 green strength or shield or immune for something etc.

You have interesting ideas but if they're implemented as cards, they probably won't see much play versus cards that buff adjacent units without an added condition. If they're implemented as a game mechanic - this will directly undermine the best part of Gwent, being easy to learn but difficult to master. The learning curve will become so high that it will turn new players off and players like me will straight out leave. Though that might be a blessing in my case, because I find myself addicted to the game.

1st thanks, yes it's may be looks complicated at start but I don't think it's to hard to manage & of course it's not going to be implemented as I have mention but developers are there to make it quite simple. We already have tags on cards like witcher / permadeath / wildhunt so the extra abilities are going to be work on this as I mentioned & after some games & specially if you have played witcher series then I don't think it's too hard to adept but it's going to be much more fun & specially I think we going to see variety in decks which is major problem now imo.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

One thing I want to add that.. this abilities which I suggested above are going to be global abilities, I mean those are not going to be explained or print on cards but if something match as par global rule then it's going to be trigger automatically. like....

3 same strength different bronze cards are together then do this...
If witcher + mage is near then do this...
If spy is near nay non-gold unit then do this..
Something like that as par game relations... of course there are going to be simple abilities which will not going to add too much difference but still it's important related to positioning of cards.

So that we going to have more abilities on cards like...
- change position of non-gold card
- add 0 strength dummy card to opp. side on any row
- select 3 cards & keep there strength as it is but set unequally. I mean if 5 | 5 | 5 then it's going to be 4 | 6 | 5 or any random no. but total to 15 only.

& may be adding this global abilities on hotkey is another good way to check them quickly.

Again all abilities / numbers are just for suggestion only, the whole idea is to make more use of positioning & other so called useless cards... Thanks.

 

[SkippyHole]

i] If cards on row > left to right > high strength to low strength > gain +1 strength every turn. i.e 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 1 etc. OR
If cards on row > right to left > low strength to high strength > remove -1 strength from same opp. row every turn. i.e 1 | 2 | 4 | 5 | 8 | 10 etc.

That's interesting, but would be pretty complicated to get right in current decks (tokens spawning on the wrong side, etc.) I'm assuming if there's one out of place it does nothing every turn? Keira Metz does something similar, but is a bit more simplistically done.

ii] If three same strength but different [ no instance ] bronze cards on row together then do something...

So....Redanian Elite?

Having said that, I definitely think more effects like that would be good.

iii] You can add advantage or disadvantage for the unit types which are together on same row. May be as par game story & relation between them like....
- wildhunt units + witcher together going to add bad effect so you have to position them properly not to activate that effect.
- medic + wounding unit will trigger something like may be medic going to heal left / right wounding unit for +1 strength each turn.
- witch hunter + mage bad effect
- witcher + mage good effect

A little too complicated there I think. Where exactly are people going to find out these effects? On the cards themselves? Noone wants to read huge paragraphs for every card. I still think the best way to add effects like that is with row-affecting spell cards (like weather, but less inherently broken) that gives buffs for playing certain things, which I suggested elsewhere.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

That's interesting, but would be pretty complicated to get right in current decks (tokens spawning on the wrong side, etc.) I'm assuming if there's one out of place it does nothing every turn? Keira Metz does something similar, but is a bit more simplistically done.

Yehh that's the point it's not going to worked so easily... but it's additional thing for positioning so if you can make it you will get something for it.

So....Redanian Elite?
Having said that, I definitely think more effects like that would be good.

Nope, no Redanian Elite as I said it's not going to work on instances but on 3 same strength different bronze cards. This will makes more sense when we will get more cards par faction.

A little too complicated there I think. Where exactly are people going to find out these effects? On the cards themselves? Noone wants to read huge paragraphs for every card. I still think the best way to add effects like that is with row-affecting spell cards (like weather, but less inherently broken) that gives buffs for playing certain things, which I suggested elsewhere.

Read my post no. #6 I have added more info. to it. We can check this combos quickly with hotkey & after few games I don't think it's too hard to figure out as it's going to be based on witcher 3 story & character relations.

 

[nhk3]

One thing I want to add that.. this abilities which I suggested above are going to be global abilities, I mean those are not going to be explained or print on cards but if something match as par global rule then it's going to be trigger automatically ...
& may be adding this global abilities on hotkey is another good way to check them quickly.
Again all abilities / numbers are just for suggestion only, the whole idea is to make more use of positioning & other so called useless cards... Thanks.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but you need to understand that adding a new global mechanic is the worst thing you can do for Gwent. There are different types of CCG, some with complex mechanics like mana/lands/whatever, but Gwent isn't one of them. What you're suggesting is a change to the essence of the game. While you might be inclined to enjoy CCGs with such complexity, most of the players, myself included, are drawn to Gwent because it has simple rules, which provide strategic depth nonetheless. Your "global rules" will just increase rule complexity without adding depth to the game, essentially killing it. Furthermore have you considered how checking some combinations via hotkey would work? Try to do a run-through in your mind - you'd spend more time looking at that screen trying to figure out why your opponent's units suddenly got a +10 buff instead of playing the game, it would be horrible.
I also feel the need to highlight that the Positioning this patch introduced is specifically referring to a unit's position within the row. Simply having "X number of equal strength units on the same row" doesn't fit with the new aspect, because such mechanics have always existed i.e. it's no different than Hawker Healers buffing units only on the row where they were played. If you want to take advantage of the new additions from this patch, then you need to use card (non-)adjacency, position to left/right.
I hope I was able to convey why your suggestions would, and should, never be made into a global mechanic. On the other hand they are perfectly viable if implemented as card text. A simple description such as "Do X if played on the same row as a Y" is exactly the same as your witcher+mage combo, plus it is intuitive and can be implemented within current gameplay.
I especially like the suggestion for cards that can alter the position of a unit within it's row - this can help setting up buffed units together to be D-bombed or screwing up Consume Monsters' chain. Currently there's a lack of position altering cards, with the exception of Drowners and Aard.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

I'm sorry to be so negative, but you need to understand that adding a new global mechanic is the worst thing you can do for Gwent. There are different types of CCG, some with complex mechanics like mana/lands/whatever, but Gwent isn't one of them. What you're suggesting is a change to the essence of the game. While you might be inclined to enjoy CCGs with such complexity, most of the players, myself included, are drawn to Gwent because it has simple rules, which provide strategic depth nonetheless. Your "global rules" will just increase rule complexity without adding depth to the game, essentially killing it. Furthermore have you considered how checking some combinations via hotkey would work? Try to do a run-through in your mind - you'd spend more time looking at that screen trying to figure out why your opponent's units suddenly got a +10 buff instead of playing the game, it would be horrible.
I also feel the need to highlight that the Positioning this patch introduced is specifically referring to a unit's position within the row. Simply having "X number of equal strength units on the same row" doesn't fit with the new aspect, because such mechanics have always existed i.e. it's no different than Hawker Healers buffing units only on the row where they were played. If you want to take advantage of the new additions from this patch, then you need to use card (non-)adjacency, position to left/right.
I hope I was able to convey why your suggestions would, and should, never be made into a global mechanic. On the other hand they are perfectly viable if implemented as card text. A simple description such as "Do X if played on the same row as a Y" is exactly the same as your witcher+mage combo, plus it is intuitive and can be implemented within current gameplay.
I especially like the suggestion for cards that can alter the position of a unit within it's row - this can help setting up buffed units together to be D-bombed or screwing up Consume Monsters' chain. Currently there's a lack of position altering cards, with the exception of Drowners and Aard.

Let me try to explain you why I suggested this & Why it's not going to affect anything that much.... my English not great so please if you don't understand anything or have any doubt feel free to ask..

1] I have suggested this after position patch & not before it as for me position need to be justify its full potential imo which is currently lacking. Adding cards with ability to select target & do something to it & its adjacent cards is I think way to simple for whole new positioning mechanism.

2] Even though we get this global abilities as suggested it's not necessary for you to use it as it's going to be very small additional effects but the advantage is may be we can see more variety in decks as may be we will see decks build to take advantage from this global abilities but still it's not necessary.

3] As I said these are going to be very simple combos like witcher + mage / witcher + wild hunt / medic + wounded unit / spy + any non-gold unit etc. & you really don't have to byheart this as its not a rocket science.

And don't you think this gwent is far different then witcher 3 game gwent so compering that to this is not make any sense at least imo.

In the end as I said above this is just a simple suggestion & the main point is to give positioning little more important then now no matter how As well cdpr can use icons to show card specialty like...

+ = medic / skull icon = permadeath / FL = fleeting / RL = rentless / medallion = witcher etc.

 

[nhk3]

1) Positioning is fine for and while doing something to adjacent units is simple in description, it's actually strategic in application. It's most evident for self-buffing units like Reinforced Siege Towers, Ancient Foglets etc. Your proposition on the other hand completely disregards such unit abilities and forces you to stack units according to strength value because of some arbitrary rule, which makes no sense from strategic perspective.
2) Here you're just wrong. It will either be so powerful that only decks built around it will exist, or so weak that it won't be played at all, there won't be more deck variety beyond what currently exists. However unfortunate this is the normal state for competitive games.
3) Sorry, but you're wrong again - you will either need to learn these by heart or will spend a lot of time on the "hotkey" screen to review them constantly. I still see no reason why these simple combos need to be some global mechanic versus card text - the end result can be the same, but if the description is on the cards it will be much easier to understand/follow.

To be honest I haven't played Witcher 3, but from what I understand Gwent is indeed pretty different.
But let me tell you a story - I've had a key since November but started playing months later in the middle of February. This happened because I was under the wrong impression that Gwent had some complex rules, which I didn't want to bother learning. I logged in once because of some promotion, but after I did the tutorial I knew the rules aren't over-complicated. The thing I had most trouble understanding was the loyal/disloyal mechanic. If the global things you're suggesting were actually in the game, I would've deleted the it after the tutorial.

In the end as I said above this is just a simple suggestion & the main point is to give positioning little more important then now no matter how

Positioning is as important as it should be. Maybe you're not playing a deck much affected by positioning at the moment, but in some match-ups it affects several aspects of game play. This is a good balance versus the outcome always being determined by positioning. It is called Gwent after all, not Positioning: The Card Game.
And in the end it can always be given more flair through new card abilities instead of turning the rules on their head.