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Possible game update for PnP?

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Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#1
Jan 10, 2013
Possible game update for PnP?

Hello, all,

CP2020 remains my favourite PnP system, for both it's unapologetic "grit" and obvious love of tech-immersion. There are a few...weak points in it, though. Most of us who've run and played it over the years are aware of these flaws and we once hoped V3 would address them. Although I liked V3 quite a bit, it lost a certain...noir tang when it embraced the future. Let's not talk about the dolls.

I've read Mike is working on an update and I'm curious as to what it might consist of? Rules to make drug use more ubiquitous, perhaps? Setting changes that reflect the incredibly commonality of the Internet today? Some of the excellent suggestions found in "Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads!"? A hand to hand system that is clearer and allows less-lethal options?


..actually fun netrunning? (ducks for cover).

Anyone else have a few suggestions or rumour hints?
 
N

node16

Rookie
#2
Jan 10, 2013
A PnP update of Cyberpunk that ties into the new video game would be amazing, and a good way to kick start dormant Cyberpunk campaigns.
 
Dr. LaBrat

Dr. LaBrat

Senior user
#3
Jan 10, 2013
i think it's pretty likely that the update will bring the PnP into the Cyberpunk 2077 setting and timeline. it makes total sense from a creative standpoint that mike creates this new timeline and setting not only to be used in the videogame, but to bring the PnP game to a new audience..

by the way, it would be amazing if the collectors edition of cp77 would come with some rulebooks and character sheets for the new PnP. CDPR always makes great collector editions of their games so i think that's a possibility

didn't dragon age do basically the same thing?
 
A

arkhandroid

Rookie
#4
Jan 11, 2013
We just use common sense to make our CP2020 game modernized.

The only things that need modernized for the most part, relate to netrunning + phone lines. Broadband and Wifi is pretty easy to integrate without having to do anything drastic.
 
hismastersvoice

hismastersvoice

Forum veteran
#5
Jan 11, 2013
Last I checked CP3.0 or whatever it's called got panned pretty hard. Don't know whether it deserved it or if it's just the old guard acting bitchy about a system they feel they own and don't like kids on their lawns, but a high profile update using art assets from CDPR would be beyond cool.

You know what? Just have CDP buy the game wholesale for their PnP branch to manage. I'm sure they would do better with it than the current owners.
 
G

greyice

Rookie
#6
Jan 11, 2013
I'm hoping that they make a PnP, I've seen younger players take to PnP because they are imaginative and can do things that the computer game won't let them.

They also learn from their, sometimes grievous, mistakes and laugh about it. Some people are quite imaginative and creative and they should be supported lest the upcoming generations lose this to fixed-thinking mentality.
 
R

raben-aas

Rookie
#7
Jan 11, 2013
Cyberpunk without PvP is not Cyberpunk.
 
U

username_3641242

Rookie
#8
Jan 11, 2013
It would be nice to see something new. It's been years since I've run or played in a game, but I'd certainly pick up the books if they came out with something new. Hell, I'd even try like hell to get a game going (not likely to happen, but it's fun to imagine).
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#9
Jan 11, 2013
You can play online. We've used various methods including IRC, Vent/Mumble chat, Open or WEB Rpg and the excellent rollz.org dice roller room, as well as a proprietary app a friend built for us. You can play via voice or text and copy/paste maps into these various applications. Good fun. Remember to log everything for later laughter.

Sooner or later I'm going to organize intro playgroups here, probably. Unless someone else does. I just started on a SLA Industries campaign though. Also my players are diseased escapees from human waste asylums and are not compatible with normals. That's the players, mind you.
 
TheCybersmily

TheCybersmily

Senior user
#10
Jan 11, 2013
I am one of those old guards. I didn't see a drastic improvement with 203x. I found it lacking something. The thing that made it most sour was the wait. Its scheduled release was pushed back several times, cancelled, and re-initialized. For all that time of waiting I was expecting something that was going to floor me and want burn all my other PHP games and the 2020 edition. It didn't live up to my expectations nor take the system to the next level imho
 
blank_redge

blank_redge

Rookie
#11
Jan 11, 2013
hmv said:
Last I checked CP3.0 or whatever it's called got panned pretty hard.
Click to expand...
cybersmily said:
I am one of those old guards. I didn't see a drastic improvement with 203x.
Click to expand...
Wait... what?

They released a CP 3.0??? o_O ?!

We're not talking about the version where all of the kids were infected with nanotech, and developed new and interesting mutations, are we? The one where those kids are the protagonists.
 
P

peteramthor

Rookie
#12
Jan 11, 2013
blank_redge said:
Wait... what?

They released a CP 3.0??? o_O ?!

We're not talking about the version where all of the kids were infected with nanotech, and developed new and interesting mutations, are we? The one where those kids are the protagonists.
Click to expand...
Yeah they released a 3.0 although it didn't do quite as well as one would hope. I think the initial turn off was the art, people hammered it for that without even reading a word of the game. There were some really odd strangeness to the setting that just didn't seem to fit in very well or were just to hyped up and anime style for what was the grim and gritty world of 2020.

The nanotech kids game you are mentioning is Cybergeneration which is considered to be it's own little alternate future of 2020 I believe.
 
K

krypter

Rookie
#13
Jan 11, 2013
V3 was much more a transhumanist game than a cyberpunk game. It advanced the timeline to the point of pure scifi rather than the traditional "20 minutes into the future".

The barbiepunk artwork did not help at all, and yes, it turned off tonnes of people, including me. The giri system was a pretty good idea though.
 
P

peteramthor

Rookie
#14
Jan 11, 2013
I agree with it being transhumanist with a lot of the direction. Almost like a stepping stone between cyberpunk and full on transhumanism where there are a lot of bumps and society changes that have to occur. There were some really good ideas in there, but they were slap up against some not so good ideas and it didn't mesh well.

Although I did like that the pdf of the game took full advantage of imbedded links to locations for future content. All sorts of stuff was released on those over the first month or two of it's release. Then when it became apparent that it wasn't going to sell anywhere like the old editions the support of those sort of dried up.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#15
Jan 11, 2013
CP V3 had lots of good ideas. Corpore Metal, giri, living buildings were some of my favourites.

But it wasn't very "punk". Metal bands that simulate cybernetics take the bloody, pain-induced edge away from having Wolvers, for example.

A better tranhumanist game, I feel, is Eclipse Phase. I always felt CP2020 could eveolve into that and in fact had a campaign headed that way.

Let us not talk about the art in V3. Dolls.

From the company that once put out one of, if not the, best class splat books ever: Rockerboy. And Solo of Fortune. And Live and Direct. And Listen Up! And...

Anyway. Bizarre art choice. I miss the line art.
 
N

Nagisawa

Forum regular
#16
Jan 11, 2013
peteramthor said:
Yeah they released a 3.0 although it didn't do quite as well as one would hope. I think the initial turn off was the art, people hammered it for that without even reading a word of the game. There were some really odd strangeness to the setting that just didn't seem to fit in very well or were just to hyped up and anime style for what was the grim and gritty world of 2020.

The nanotech kids game you are mentioning is Cybergeneration which is considered to be it's own little alternate future of 2020 I believe.
Click to expand...
Actually, V.3 used Cybergeneration as it's 'springboard'. It's 'official' as it's going to get, if I remember correctly.

The issue I had with version 3 was twofold. The first was the mechanics, a lot of it was cut and pasted from the older games with new ones slapped in with no sense as to how it would work together. But you can work around this.

The other major issue was story wise. The Paper Plague was, I am not going to mince words here and I apologize if this offends, the stupidest thing anyone could have thought up of. I'm no scientist, I'm an artist (and not that good) for heaven's sake and even I know that viruses go after living tissue, like trees and flesh, not paper which is actually pretty dead. And worse, viruses, even genetically tailored ones will mutate. Needless to say, the plague could have put a serious dent in the living population, and not harm a single paperback or hardcover book.

Next up was the counterpart 'electronic' virus that somehow managed to destroy single every piece of electronic data in the entire world, including corporate files. Via the internet. Which flies in the face of everything we've been taught about how the various corporations work. These are paranoid entities who will shoot first, and maybe clean up the bodies, should someone even hint at trying to get one of their secrets.

Most real world corporations have an in house intranet, which is sealed from the outside world. Not to mention that in CP2020, they'd likely have anything super important locked up in a vault, in triplicate and spread out among several locations. Just in case.

To actually wipe all that data would require a simultaneous setting off EMP bombs at every single physical data node at once. And that amount of power would destroy most of the world's infrastructure casting us back into the iron age if we're lucky. There would have been none of those 'alt-cultures'.

Which is yet another bone of contention. These groups of... Kids? (I forget) who belong to these gang like groups with access to super science technology, but each developing it in exclusion of everything else. Ignoring the 'Paper Plague' BS, there's no spying? No stealing of ideas? How in the world do you think the real world got where it is now in terms of technology? Because someone saw something cool that someone else was doing and managed to market it to the masses in a way that people believe they need it. The computer mouse? Xerox of the Photocopier fame made it first., or rather one of their engineering teams did. Apple managed to market it better for it's line of computers. Windows? It's a stolen copy of the Mac OS, gussied up and marketed to the point where it's ubiquitous. These 'Alt-Cults' as V.3 wanted to do wouldn't have happened. Not because it's unrealistic, it's because it's implausible by what we as a people know.

Science Fiction is ground in the reality that we know about, and unlike Fantasy, isn't something you can take that much liberties with. It doesn't have to be 'realistic', it just has to be 'plausible'. Sadly, Cyberpunk V.3 is not even close to being plausible.

In 'reality' as per the way Mr. Pondsmith set up 2020, the paper plague would be nothing more than a footnote. Their version of the Y2K bug. Maybe a couple million deaths world wide, and for the first year a lot less internet porn, but the rest of the world would have just trucked along nicely.
 
blank_redge

blank_redge

Rookie
#17
Jan 11, 2013
...wow. Usually, I'm pretty rabid about devouring Cyberpunk canon, but it sounds like I'm better off for having missed this boat.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#18
Jan 11, 2013
Actually, I'd take a look at both Cybergeneration - which iirc is the alternate, didn't-actually-happen version of the 2020 future, as well as the V3, it-did-actually-happen future. Ironically, the Cybergeneration one always seemed more likely to me.

V3 has some value, absolutely. If for no other reason than to marvel at the artwork. Plus, a nation of full body conversions amuses me.
 
N

Nagisawa

Forum regular
#19
Jan 11, 2013
sardukhar said:
Actually, I'd take a look at both Cybergeneration - which iirc is the alternate, didn't-actually-happen version of the 2020 future, as well as the V3, it-did-actually-happen future. Ironically, the Cybergeneration one always seemed more likely to me.

V3 has some value, absolutely. If for no other reason than to marvel at the artwork. Plus, a nation of full body conversions amuses me.
Click to expand...
Like I said, Cybergen is canon, because of V3. HOWEVER: because of the trailer, and the fact that they so far, everything we've seen says so, CDPR is treating it as non-canon for their game.

Now, if we can get some setting updates of some type. Like what's left of the corp structure and stuff, then I can make a new campaign world for my CP games... Assuming I can find some of the older CP books.

However, I want to say that there is an issue with CP2020, namely my favourite class, the Solo. Combat Sense should not be limited to it only. Max-Tac would have some, as would the average beat cop in a Gang Zone, but they'd also have Authority. In fact, given the amount of combat most people would get into, anyone who does 'runs' for corps would get some Combat Sense, maybe not as high as a Solo, but definitely would have some sooner or later. The ability for an initiative bonus is way too powerful, truth be told.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#20
Jan 11, 2013
Nagisawa said:
Like I said, Cybergen is canon, because of V3. HOWEVER: because of the trailer, and the fact that they so far, everything we've seen says so, CDPR is treating it as non-canon for their game.
Click to expand...
Actually, no. You can check the Cybergen wikipedia entry if you'd like.

Nagisawa said:
Now, if we can get some setting updates of some type. Like what's left of the corp structure and stuff, then I can make a new campaign world for my CP games... Assuming I can find some of the older CP books.
Click to expand...
If you check the forums, you'll find a gametrailers interview where CDPR mentions their game takes place post-4th Corp War and Arasaka Tower getting nuked.


Nagisawa said:
However, I want to say that there is an issue with CP2020, namely my favourite class, the Solo. Combat Sense should not be limited to it only. Max-Tac would have some, as would the average beat cop in a Gang Zone, but they'd also have Authority. In fact, given the amount of combat most people would get into, anyone who does 'runs' for corps would get some Combat Sense, maybe not as high as a Solo, but definitely would have some sooner or later. The ability for an initiative bonus is way too powerful, truth be told.
Click to expand...
Oh, I think most GMs agree. Deric Bernier's Interlock Unlimited formalizes it, but most of us allow multiple Special Abilities, just at reduced levels. I always liked either a) max 10 points total in all your SA or b) Second SA at 1/2 Primary, third SA at 1/3, etc.

This lets other professions pick up Combat Sense, Authority, Jury Rig, Resourcs, you name it.
 
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