Preferred Row System (a missed opportunity?)

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Preferred Row System (a missed opportunity?)

  • Row Locked as it was during Closed Beta

    Votes: 11 27.5%
  • All Agile as it is now

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • Lorefriendly Prefered-Row-System

    Votes: 26 65.0%
  • Alternative PRS (assign in deckbuilder)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40
Preferred Row System (a missed opportunity?)

The time of row locked units in Gwent is over. Since the start of open beta the number of cards, which were not agile, had been continuously reduced and the midwinter patch was the final death blow for the concept of row locked units. Personally I think they could have found a better solution than this: A prefered-row-system


Agile vs Row Locked:

Before talking about a prefered-row-system, let's look at the advantages and disadvantages of having all cards agile or having most of them row locked:
Everytime you play a agile unit you have to decide on which row you want to place it. In General giving the player more opportunities to make decisions is a good thing, but from my personal experience in most matchups you just try to evenly distribute your points over the three rows. But there are also some matchups like axemen SK there it usually matters a lot where you place your units.
In my opinion the biggest disadvantage of row locked units is that it limits the deckbuilding process. Some deck combinations just don't work, because too many of your units would be on the same row. One important aspect of having a lot of row locked units is, that it forces you to decide a little bit more carefully when to play which unit, because it is harder to play around cards like Igni or lacerate (depending on which deck you play). Furthermore I think it makes it easier for people with some skills in deckbuilding to create anti-meta decks, because having row locked units removes versatility and adds more vulnerabilites to the meta decks. Last but not least there are still three rows in gwent: Melee, Ranged and Siege. If you can play your trebuchet in the melee row without downside it takes away a lot of atmosphere from the game. Closed Beta definitely made more sense lorewise.

Prefered-Row-System:

As said in the beginning I think that a prefered-row-system would be better than the other two options. Instead of forcing players to play their units on one specific row like it was during Closed Beta you can decide if you want to play it on the correct row and get some kind of buff for it or play it on another row. So the decision to make is still the same like it is now, but there are more consequences and decision-making becomes more challenging than before. I have to admit that most of the disadvantages of row locked units also apply to units with a prefered row, but only to a smaller degree.

How to implement it:

I think the best way to implement it is by giving every (non-agile) unit an extra deploy ability*, which only triggers when you play it on its prefered row. This ability shouldn't be so strong that you are actually forced to play it on the correct row, but strong enough that you never would play it on another one without a good reason.

Lorefriendly implementation:

One tip: The prefered row of our beloved trebuchet isn't the melee row.

Pure gameplay:

If you don't care about lore and such things, there is also another solution:
Let the player decide which row is the prefered one of your units. This possibility would make deckbuilding a lot more interesting and complex(not saying it is boring now ;)). The deckbuilder would need another rework in this case though.


Why we will never see it:

Well, we know that CDPR isn't afraid to make major changes, but a system like this would force them to basically change every single card and this would take a heck of a long time. Some archetypes like machines wouldn't work very well under these circumstances. So they would need to rework the crewman ability as well maybe by adding a whole new "type" of placement**. For example the crewman card could be a ranged unit and you can place your machine behind it (you could tweak this system so that one card has up to two cards „in front“ of it). Creating this kind of system has the potential to add even more complexity, strategy and atmosphere to the game, but also takes a lot of time and I don't think they want the game to be too complex. Furthermore it would make it harder to balance the game properly(balance is already pretty bad tbh). Having an extra deploy ability also would make the card text a lot longer, which they definitely don't want.



*edit:
example:
temerian drummer:

5 strength, buff a unit by 3 ; deploy ability for playing it on the correct row: buff a unit by 3
the alternative would be: Buff a unit by 3. If played on the correct row buff it by 6 instead

Other people suggested to buff all units, which are played on their prefered row by 1 or 2, but I think that's rather boring and my suggestion makes it easier to balance cards.


**
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/forum/en/gwent/general-discussions-aa/suggestions-aa/10334572-extended-positioning


What is your favourite option:
 
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Dear mods, this isn't a real suggestion, but more than of a mix of analysis and personal opinion about agility/rows. I think it would fit better into general discussions.

ps: People are way more likely to read something under general discussions, that's why I'm mentioning it ;) People also love polls, would be a shame if they missed the opportunity to vote.
 
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BornBoring;n10195932 said:
Dear mods, this isn't a real suggestion, but more than of a mix of analysis and personal opinion about agility/rows. I think it would fit better into general discussions.
Very well. Back it goes.
 
Nice Idea so far. Ich think i might be the best, if you dont get a additive bonus if deployed in the right row, but to weak the ability if not placed "correctly". Fror a example, i buffing uinit only aplies halve of the buff, generating unit only get weaker tokens ect.. General speaking a +2 Strengh for a unit placed in correct rwo seems legit, if the overall strangh of the units is reduced by 2. So you would have the same cards as now, but only if you placethem in the correct row.
 
Fimbulthrym;n10200472 said:
Ich think i might be the best, if you dont get a additive bonus if deployed in the right row, but to weak the ability if not placed "correctly". Fror a example, i buffing uinit only aplies halve of the buff, generating unit only get weaker tokens ect..

Well, example temerian drummer: 6 strength, buff a unit by 3 ; deploy ability for playing it the correct row: buff a unit by 3. Would be pretty similar.
Another option would be: Buff a unit by 3. If played on the correct row buff it by 6 instead (it would basically work how you described it).
The best way is probably to give some cards option A and some cards option B. That would give the developers more design space.
Back to temerian drummer:
3+3 is better than +6 and because noone plays temerian drummer, I'd prefer option A in this case.
 
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I too love the preferred row system...adding some flavor yet not forcing players to play the row(which could lead to many problems especially since row limit is applied)
 
Someone once told me that's their plan anyway, meaning to turn it into a preferred row system (maybe they mentioned it in one of their streams, or he was just thinking it must be I don't know :p ). Considering that right now rows are completely pointless (having the symbols of sword, bow and arrow and catapult is just ironic imho :p )
 
No Title

Some notes about:
BornBoring;n10194932 said:
Some archetypes like machines wouldn't work very well under these circumstances. So they would need to rework the crewman ability as well maybe by adding a whole new "type" of placement. For example the crewman card could be a ranged unit and you can place your machine behind it (you could tweak this system so that one card has up to two cards „in front“ of it).

I made some top notch graphics ;), which show how the new board design could look like.
I marked the cards in front and behind R2 to make my intention more clear.
Other rules: If you're placing a card on the empty ranged row, it has to be at R1, on the melee and siege row you have two options. Then you can play cards adjacent to the ones already on the board until you have reached M5/R6/S5 on the left or the right side (to make things clearer: you could play all M1 left, M2l, M3l,M4l,M5l or like M1l, M1r, M2r,M3r, M2l).

Things I still have to think about:
- Should you be allowed to "push" units to the side by placing a unit between two cards? (probably yes)
- What happens if one unit in the middle gets destroyed? (I prefer: nothing happens, but you have to fill the empty spaces when playing cards)
- How do cards like rabid wolves (woodland spirit) spawn?

Some additional ideas for the design of a machine archetype:
- Siege Units like (reinforced) ballistas or (reinforced) trebuchets could work similarly to how they work now (their prefered-row (siege ofc) ability could just be their normal deploy ability)

- Cards like Siege Tower could work differently:
What's the actual purpose of a Siege Tower? It transport units, helps them to reach the top of a wall and protects them from being shot down by archers etc.
So it's prefered-row could actually be the melee row. It needs some effect, which boosts adjacent units and/or gives them armor. It could also be a unit with big armor, which absorbs the damage adjacent units would take. Battering Ram has a whole different purpose, but could be in the melee row as well.
Anyway that way your crewman in the ranged row, could help the siege units behind him and in front of him + this example shows, that you don't have to rowstack too much.

(I know it would make much more sense lorewise if the crewman was adjacent to the siege units, but maybe you have to finde some compromises to make it work).
edit: Thinking about it twice, there are maybe better design ideas
 

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I think maybe 50% cards should have 1 or 2 place where they can be played.
Not all. that would be too hard to balance
 
vidokas;n10231022 said:
Not all. that would be too hard to balance

No, not all. Even during closed beta some of them were agile like Igni(not related: I don't like that you don't have to play him on the opposite row now). Agility becoming an elves thing again could be interesting, too.
 
Preferred Row — to tune each card’s overall popularity (thus archetype)  

After the agility update, I always got a feeling that I am just slamming points on the board anywhere I want as it almost it does not matter (except consideration about the 25 points, specific weather leaders and axeman). And there is no row consideration on deck building now, units are mostly just about synergy with other cards...

I want to suggest bringing back the preferred row system to maybe 20% (???) of the unit population, which also as a means of balancing less used units. For units that was put into its preferred row, it is strengthened by 2 points (maybe gold units can add 4 points).

Thus my suggestion is to make current units that see minimal use got buffed by 2 extra points. Current agile units that is too strong/popular will be nerfed by 1~2 points. And for ‘some’ of these, they will also gain a preferred row designation (melee, siege, and support row), so players can get back to the current level of points IF they don’t mind locking them to their preferred row.

As a means to illustrate, the 11 point bear will be nerfed to 9 points with a designated preferred row, melee row. Thus SK player can place all of their bears in melee row to get them strengthened to 11… with extra risk of row weather or igni. Or play agile other rows for mere 9 points.

I think this can add back some flavor to the overall game, promote more diverse use of units, bring back non-gold weather. Last but not least, for about 20%(?) of units players need to think if the 2 point trade-off is worth the row locking
 
ClimbHigh;n10312142 said:
it is strengthened by 2 points

in my opinion it is better a Boost, to avoid massive buffs with cards that return to hand and Resurrections.

For the remining I totally agree. It's enough that all "Soldiers" get a buff on malee, same for "war machine" on siege, ecc...
 
I love the idea of preferred rows, particularly for some of the more bland cards like Wyvern. Maybe if it was something like 7 points, deal 5 damage to an enemy that is not on the opposing row. If played on the ranged row increase the damage to 7 instead. Or combat engineer: 6 points, boost an adjacent ally by 5, if played on the siege row heal an adjacent ally then boost it by 4 instead.
Effects like these would give some of the less unique cards more interesting effects, while also making positioning more important again.
 
It's hard for me to say what I'd prefer, as I've only experienced Row locked units and fully Agile units. I'd definitely like to try out all of what you've suggested, but I feel like a mix of Preferred rows and Row locked units would be best.
 
Bringing back row identity

So I do understand that cards being row-locked is something that had to be removed because of all the row-based damage effects, but I think it's very sad that the fact that we have a melee, ranged and siege row is completely meaningless at the moment. I would like to see some cards get bonuses if they are played in their corresponding row. like additional armor for melee, shots for ranged or damage for siege units. This would obviously require a lot of balancing and reworking of cards and is certainly not the most pressing thing right now, but it would be nice to see some meaning coming back to the rows in the more distant future.
 
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