Procedurally made games (Human creativity with AI doing the math )

[Spockprime]

These sorts of things were running around on the Sims forums a couple of years ago. People were taking snapshots of their in game cartoonish characters, and running them through software that made them look completely lifelike. Some were singing songs, some were talking. One absolutely stunning one was an in game character turned into a runway model. I thought it was an actual clip of a runway model until the poster showed what she did to make it.

I found the thread I was talking about. Take a look at the posts where people are using ReFace:

Well, Sims + Wombo.ai is incredible — The Sims Forums

 

[YourMAMA911]

This is I think a slightly different topic but I think they have the technology now or should invest in it for an engine to randomly create the environment, setup, and NPC placement of gigs. Right now everything is scripted by the developer, rather than spend all the time on scripting, should spend time on making something that will automate it in game in real time and randomly, so that in theory playability for these gigs would be different for everyone and always interesting and last for perpetuity.

 

[SpookyFX]

This is I think a slightly different topic but I think they have the technology now or should invest in it for an engine to randomly create the environment, setup, and NPC placement of gigs. Right now everything is scripted by the developer, rather than spend all the time on scripting, should spend time on making something that will automate it in game in real time and randomly, so that in theory playability for these gigs would be different for everyone and always interesting and last for perpetuity.

I had not thought of it that way, with the AI doing a lot of the "work" it leaves the DEV more time to hand craft more/better quests!

 

[jacefrez]

Yeah
It's more than just a "help" or creative tool (like photoshop). In short, this is like asking someone else to create something and saying you made it.
If I push the idea "further", as if I were asking the AI :
I want a sci-fi game, with the possibility of traveling the whole galaxy, a lot of extra-terrestrials more or less friendly with conflicts here and there, vastly superior synthetics that eradicate evolved life forms every 50 miles years and a hero who saves the galaxy.
After a while, boom, the AI gives me Mass Effect "ready to play" and I proclaim that I have created a great game... Not really true, nor fair

It remind me a NC54 news in Cyberpunk, where it's the AI which is claimed as the author and win rewards. They considered its recent novel, In the shade of an apple tree as a "treasure of this generation". Its previous novel, a requiem for a samourai, is already considered as a "masterpiece the of post collapse literature"

I watched different parts of that news segment over my playthrough and I never really took the time to watch it completely. That's awesome.

 

[YourMAMA911]

I had not thought of it that way, with the AI doing a lot of the "work" it leaves the DEV more time to hand craft more/better quests!

yeah and it gives us more content. I think it's do able for the simple gigs and hustle in the game. I don't think AI is there yet to randomly generate side quest level missions...would need to get to Delamain level sentience for that lol

 

[ReptilePZ]

Really interesting documentary (if you have an hour and a half on your hands) on the first AI to beat a top human professional Go player. It goes into some details in terms of how machine learning works while also being an entertaining watch:

 

[Spockprime]

Really interesting documentary (if you have an hour and a half on your hands) on the first AI to beat a top human professional Go player. It goes into some details in terms of how machine learning works while also being an entertaining watch:

In the last couple of years, AI has even managed to start beating humans consistently at poker.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

In the last couple of years, AI has even managed to start beating humans consistently at poker.

By keeping in mind that I never played chess and very little to poker, but I'm more impressed by an AI who beat humans at chess than at poker.

I think chess are fully based on strategy. Strategy which can change or adapted at any moment in function of how your oponent play.
Unlike poker which is mainly based on statistics (easily achievable by an AI with even "limited" computing power). On a side note, it seem quite unfair, an AI have by default a "poker face"

 

[Spockprime]

By keeping in mind that I never played chess and very little to poker, but I'm more impressed by an AI who beat humans at chess than at poker.

I think chess are fully based on strategy. Strategy which can change or adapted at any moment in function of how your oponent play.
Unlike poker which is mainly based on statistics (easily achievable by an AI with even "limited" computing power). On a side note, it seem quite unfair, an AI have by default a "poker face"

Beating a novice at poker is easier than beating a novice at chess. Beating an expert at Chess is an easier AI problem than beating an expert at poker.

Chess is a complex strategy game, but it's a zero-sum problem at heart. Poker is an easier strategy in terms of outcomes for an individual hand, particularly if we allow the AI to "cheat" by counting cards. But in a group poker setting, one has to build a learning strategy based on observing the behavior of other players. Expert poker players are masters at this. The AI has to somehow be taught to learn it, so that it implements forward looking strategy based on other players' tendencies. AI has been able to wipe out novice poker players, like me, for a while, because all it needs to do is evaluate population average strategies. But against expert players, those strategies have to be adjusted dynamically. It's a very difficult AI problem.

I have a friend worked on that AI problem for years. Carnegie Mellon beat him to it a couple of years ago.

This is a bit of an oversimplification, but illustrative of the problem:
Star Trek TNG - Data tries his luck at Poker - YouTube

 

[ReptilePZ]

In the last couple of years, AI has even managed to start beating humans consistently at poker.

I think DeepMind also tackled Starcraft 2 and beat some strong (but not top) professionals there too. But yeah, machine learning is being used/startung to be used in lots of places nowadays. Not just to solve games, but also in business - to help predict user behaviours, preferences etc. and help optimise the business based on that user data. I think China in particular is currently making a lot of progress in the field, but everyone seems to be joining in the AI research race.

Anyway, there are some fun ways to try your hand at building reinforcement models, although if you want to more than just try it, it does usually cost money.

One such example is Amazon's DeepRacer, which is basically a toolset that helps you build a racing AI that uses machine learning. They run their own league and everything where people compete:

 

[Spockprime]

This entire conversation is starting to remind me of why building an AI in videogames that can beat expert players without cheating is really, really hard.

 

[SpookyFX]

Getting closer:

 

[SpookyFX]

here is another update on AI in games:

 

[0248991]

here is another update on AI in games:

It looks insane, but how does it work?
Do you know how is the AI integrated into the game?
Dialogues are one thing, but how does it handle in-game mechanics like attacking, knowledge of the map,...?
It would need to be deeply integrated with many of the game's systems, wouldn't it?

 

[Bartinga2077]

here is another update on AI in games:

Wow, that's freaking awesome! Takes gaming to a whole new level.

 

[SigilFey]

here is another update on AI in games:

That's pretty good! Way to go, seeing an opportunity and clamping down on it. That's great!

 

[John_Russell]

For making games it makes a lot of sense because you can create assets a lot faster and AI can easier make randomizing things easier. For instance make every small fort or bandit camp different in a large open world game unlike how it works mostly now where you have 20 bandits camps but there is only 2 or 3 types copy and pasted onto the map. It just takes a lot of manhours to make 20 different bandit camps by hand whereas AI can do it and often do it better in a few minutes per camp. AI should also come in handy for optimizing games which is something that is sorely needed because as they have become larger and more complex the more bugs and inefficiencies in threading, shader pipelines and memory usage.

For me this is the third "Disruptive Technology" I've seen in my lifetime. The first was personal computers and computer aided manufacturing in the 80's (We are all going to lose our jobs to computers) and then again in the late 90's (We are going to lose our jobs to the Internet) and now we are seeing the same thing with AI. However historically both computers and the Internet created far more jobs and usually better paying jobs than were lost.

 

[SpookyFX]

It looks insane, but how does it work?
Do you know how is the AI integrated into the game?
Dialogues are one thing, but how does it handle in-game mechanics like attacking, knowledge of the map,...?
It would need to be deeply integrated with many of the game's systems, wouldn't it?

Just the dialog is AI powered. The game program handles all the other aspects like combat.

Here is one made professionally by a game company:

Funny how only a year ago some people on the forum said this would not be possible for many many years.

Edit: I have been using ChatGPT to create and run dnd game quests. I am blown away at how liberating it is to have scenarios , scenes, random events and even NPC dialog based on my creative parameters instantly at my finger tips for use in the game I run.

It is going to suck when they put ChatGPT behind a paywall. I hope it will be affordable.

 

[SigilFey]

Just the dialog is AI powered. The game program handles all the other aspects like combat.

Here is one made professionally by a game company:

Funny how only a year ago some people on the forum said this would not be possible for many many years.

Edit: I have been using ChatGPT to create and run dnd game quests. I am blown away at how liberating it is to have scenarios , scenes, random events and even NPC dialog based on my creative parameters instantly at my finger tips for use in the game I run.

It is going to suck when they put ChatGPT behind a paywall. I hope it will be affordable.

Love it! That would be pretty hard to fake or even edit. That's dang impressive.

 

[0248991]

I have been using ChatGPT to create and run dnd game quests. I am blown away at how liberating it is to have scenarios , scenes, random events and even NPC dialog based on my creative parameters instantly at my finger tips for use in the game I run.

Hey,
I believe that's the exact way how NOT to do it. DnD should be, among other things, about sharing creativity, inspiring others, putting your skills into making something worthy and cool...Having a tool to do the job for you defeats the purpose of playing the game. Literally, I am afraid.

Side example: your players could use chat gpt to generate responses, and that would be the moment when it's really two computers playing with each other.