Hello, as excited player of Cyberpunk, I am looking forward to Orion project. I love the game as it is and for next part I would like to see some things:
1. The most beautiful feeling for was the situations, when enemies recognized and mentioned V and were afraid of hers/his name! The feel of Power. Or when I disguised like Aguilar, it was almost erotic.
2. The clothing and food may mean more. For example you will need nice clothes for some locations or gang members can let you be or not recognize so easy when you are having their "colors".
3. Some more sexual practices, little more interactive and maybe more ... scifi like fetishes.
4. I thought about V as mine protagonist. Maybe she/he can start like construct in somebodys mind, with no control at first. Then he/she become be like "voice in head" and can take control and find own body...
Generally, I will like to jump again into cyberpunk world. Good luck CDPROJECT.
1. The most beautiful feeling for was the situations, when enemies recognized and mentioned V and were afraid of hers/his name! The feel of Power. Or when I disguised like Aguilar, it was almost erotic.
2. The clothing and food may mean more. For example you will need nice clothes for some locations or gang members can let you be or not recognize so easy when you are having their "colors".
3. Some more sexual practices, little more interactive and maybe more ... scifi like fetishes.
4. I thought about V as mine protagonist. Maybe she/he can start like construct in somebodys mind, with no control at first. Then he/she become be like "voice in head" and can take control and find own body...
Generally, I will like to jump again into cyberpunk world. Good luck CDPROJECT.
Whatever Orion brings, I truly truly hope, it doesn't stray too far from the tree of magnificence, that is CP2077.
The world of 2077 feels eerily plausible of our actual cultural future and there's a very alluring thing about it that keeps me coming back for more.
I hope Orion doesn't turn into some cartoony/spacy/sci-fi where it begins to feel like a Marvel super hero movie.
I absolutely adore Cherami's work as female V. Even if we no longer play as V in the next game, it would be nice to honor the character in some profound way. I mean.. V was us. We're V. So I sure as heck wouldn't mind it much if they did continue V's story and allowed us to continue onward as V.
Just need to ensure there's a great reason to keep V's storyline going beyond fan adoration. I do welcome new characters to play as, though.
The Edgerunner's show also exposed something very special and invaluable things. The ardent love from the fans of the show and it's characters, really did spread through night city when easter eggs were dropped in one of the patches.
Orion needs to harness such elements if something like this happens again and not let them become missed opportunities.
I won't lie. There was a part of me that kept hoping I'd someday either run into or hear from (or read a shard) regarding Lucy. Getting texted by Falco was great and I was hoping I'd actually see an image of him. But unfortunately, it was just through text. However, at the same time, I also appreciated how much it lead me to speculate so much.
One thing I'd really like to see in the future of Cyberpunk, are NPCs that are a bit more alive and less bot like. As they are, is fairly sophisticated for the tech but if it's not too taxing, it would be awesome if there was more to them than having to repeat the same 3-5 lines of dialogue.
There are times when even the kids of Night City, had grown up voices. lol. These things stand out the most after all quests have been accomplished. When you start roaming around taking in the details and people of Night City.
I adore this game. I recognize the amount of work that went into it and have scowered the internet for as much factual information on it's development, as I possibly could. CDPR has my support and I hope the next Cyberpunk launch will be amazing for everyone involved, including the fans.
PS. Lots of great suggestions shared here.
The world of 2077 feels eerily plausible of our actual cultural future and there's a very alluring thing about it that keeps me coming back for more.
I hope Orion doesn't turn into some cartoony/spacy/sci-fi where it begins to feel like a Marvel super hero movie.
I absolutely adore Cherami's work as female V. Even if we no longer play as V in the next game, it would be nice to honor the character in some profound way. I mean.. V was us. We're V. So I sure as heck wouldn't mind it much if they did continue V's story and allowed us to continue onward as V.
Just need to ensure there's a great reason to keep V's storyline going beyond fan adoration. I do welcome new characters to play as, though.
The Edgerunner's show also exposed something very special and invaluable things. The ardent love from the fans of the show and it's characters, really did spread through night city when easter eggs were dropped in one of the patches.
Orion needs to harness such elements if something like this happens again and not let them become missed opportunities.
I won't lie. There was a part of me that kept hoping I'd someday either run into or hear from (or read a shard) regarding Lucy. Getting texted by Falco was great and I was hoping I'd actually see an image of him. But unfortunately, it was just through text. However, at the same time, I also appreciated how much it lead me to speculate so much.
One thing I'd really like to see in the future of Cyberpunk, are NPCs that are a bit more alive and less bot like. As they are, is fairly sophisticated for the tech but if it's not too taxing, it would be awesome if there was more to them than having to repeat the same 3-5 lines of dialogue.
There are times when even the kids of Night City, had grown up voices. lol. These things stand out the most after all quests have been accomplished. When you start roaming around taking in the details and people of Night City.
I adore this game. I recognize the amount of work that went into it and have scowered the internet for as much factual information on it's development, as I possibly could. CDPR has my support and I hope the next Cyberpunk launch will be amazing for everyone involved, including the fans.
PS. Lots of great suggestions shared here.
Hey,
I have a new idea. Recently, I was rewatching these:
It got me inspired to think of the following:
Common streets & atmosphere of being alone/nobody in the streets
Problems I see with CP77 gameplay are that players mostly travel through the city using vehicles, which tightens the opportunity of feelings described in the first video.
It would be nice to get them hoodies, atmospheric elements like strips of lights coming from street lights, deep sounds of rain, and vehicle engines,...But not in the style of lit and crowded Jig-Jig street, but more simple, personal, to-the-ground...vibes of the grey city.
The oil fields or sitting with River or Panam in the night are very much that...simply put the atmosphere into the city.
What about removing the possibility of players owning vehicles and/or having them available most of the time?
It could help with building up this feeling.
I have a new idea. Recently, I was rewatching these:
It got me inspired to think of the following:
Common streets & atmosphere of being alone/nobody in the streets
Problems I see with CP77 gameplay are that players mostly travel through the city using vehicles, which tightens the opportunity of feelings described in the first video.
It would be nice to get them hoodies, atmospheric elements like strips of lights coming from street lights, deep sounds of rain, and vehicle engines,...But not in the style of lit and crowded Jig-Jig street, but more simple, personal, to-the-ground...vibes of the grey city.
The oil fields or sitting with River or Panam in the night are very much that...simply put the atmosphere into the city.
What about removing the possibility of players owning vehicles and/or having them available most of the time?
It could help with building up this feeling.
Keeping Relic in mind, we can assume that at the beginning of the game, we'll have an Ilithid maggot in our heads, or an Alien cocoon altogether. Not to say, of course, that I particularly wanted that.
This isn't due to vehicles.
Back before 2.0 rework, I used to sprint everywhere because it was faster than trying to drive the abominations masquerading as vehicles. The experience of the atmosphere was exactly the same as after the rework when vehicles are actually drivable (I use this term very losely, given that basically anything but the Caliburn is still kind of trash to use)
The issue tends to arise from the player side of things. Players are drawn to objectives, so they'll be focused on going to an objective and not their surroundings (The exception being if they're looking for ways to parkour on foot, or looking for NCPD alerts)
As such, automated vehicles are a better way to get people to focus on atmosphere as then the player won't need to focus on getting to an objective, since they're going there automatically. This lets them focus onto what is happening around them (Which often highlights how unrealistically the vehicles move in automated sections...)
Besides that, you have to create more organic means of world interaction. Less markers on the map to head towards and more things occuring randomly as you move through the world. This puts less weight on simply picking an objective on the map and moving towards it and more actually looking at the world and taking it in. So you can see situations arise like gang members picking fights, people going cyberpsycho (Both the signs of them getting to the point of mania and allowing interaction to help them and the subsequent putting them down). Things like car "Retrievals" but done more organically like in GTA, bounty hunts where you have to figure out who a person is based on their actions and scanning them to find their name etc.
The issue with these kinds of dynamic events is of course having enough variety that they don't become tiresome too quickly. Which takes a lot of work.
Player Cyberpsychosis... but done in a way that's enjoyable for the majority of players.
In pen-and-paper (aka. tabletop) Cypberpunk, Cpsychosis completely takes away player agency. If Orion tries this, CDPR will have to get creative because the majority of players don't like total loss of player agency in videogames. If Orion tries to go with the Meet the Pyro method, that's treacherous ground because a good percentage of players also don't like the games to lie to them without some kind of recourse to see through the deceptions.
So, it'll be a tough thing to implement, but I couldn't help noticing how V's ability to chrome was artificially capped to prevent risking Cpsychosis.
One idea I had rolling around in my skull was unlocking the only Ripperdoc in the region who was willing to overchrome people for a high price. Unlocking the Rdoc would be arduous, and the Rdoc would disappear after going beyond the safety limits: One chance to overchrome and risk cyberpsychosis. Other rippers would be willing to lower the current risk or maintain it but not raise it. (Meaning: The PC could swap out chrome with the same total -Humanity points or fewer total -Humanity points at any doc while the safety cap is exceeded.)
That only covers the part about how to gain Cpsychosis but not how the player character will experience it. The first part can be accomplished in many ways, but the second part is the tricky bit that needs to be done right.
I think that making it difficult to take the risk allows more freedom to have worse consequences of Cpsychosis. If the PC goes through a lot of extra effort to bypass safety limits, the PC will risk learning why the limits were there in the first place. Of course, the rewards must be well worth the risk and, being a videogame, can't result in game overs.
(Humanity is the measure of how much risk there is of Cpsychosis in the tabletop game.)
In pen-and-paper (aka. tabletop) Cypberpunk, Cpsychosis completely takes away player agency. If Orion tries this, CDPR will have to get creative because the majority of players don't like total loss of player agency in videogames. If Orion tries to go with the Meet the Pyro method, that's treacherous ground because a good percentage of players also don't like the games to lie to them without some kind of recourse to see through the deceptions.
So, it'll be a tough thing to implement, but I couldn't help noticing how V's ability to chrome was artificially capped to prevent risking Cpsychosis.
One idea I had rolling around in my skull was unlocking the only Ripperdoc in the region who was willing to overchrome people for a high price. Unlocking the Rdoc would be arduous, and the Rdoc would disappear after going beyond the safety limits: One chance to overchrome and risk cyberpsychosis. Other rippers would be willing to lower the current risk or maintain it but not raise it. (Meaning: The PC could swap out chrome with the same total -Humanity points or fewer total -Humanity points at any doc while the safety cap is exceeded.)
That only covers the part about how to gain Cpsychosis but not how the player character will experience it. The first part can be accomplished in many ways, but the second part is the tricky bit that needs to be done right.
I think that making it difficult to take the risk allows more freedom to have worse consequences of Cpsychosis. If the PC goes through a lot of extra effort to bypass safety limits, the PC will risk learning why the limits were there in the first place. Of course, the rewards must be well worth the risk and, being a videogame, can't result in game overs.
(Humanity is the measure of how much risk there is of Cpsychosis in the tabletop game.)
Just to react about this, I'm afraid that even CDPR would disagree
From the "2018 gameplay video" : "Cyberpunk 2077 is a first person role-playing game. This perspective enables us to maximise your immersion."
So you can disagree and/or do not like it, but CDPR themself stated that first person perspective is more immersive than third person perspective. And by "immersive", it means seeing the world through V's eyes instead of being a kind of "puppet master" controlling a character. That's all, nothing more (in the same way that VR can be considered to be even more immersive than a "basic" first person perspective).
Personnally, I really hope they will stick with first person for Orion, something they achieved very well in Cyberpunk 2077. As I hope they will also stick with third person for the next Witcher game, somthing they also achieved very well in TW3. Both perspectives available at the same time always ended to be pretty terrible (for one perspective or even both^^).
Arguable.
I'd rate W3, their best melee combat game, as merely "Passable" combat. Simply good enough to let the world keep a player interested. With W1 and W2 having pretty bad combat (W1 being so bad I could never actually finish the game)
Meanwhile, you have games like Chivalry, Morhau, Deliverance which do offer engaging and deep melee combat. In first person.
It's not the perspective that makes or breaks melee combat. It's the time put into it. CP2077's melee combat isn't bad because it's first person. It's bad because the main focus was on gunplay and melee took a back seat so it only has a rudimentary system in place.
As far as flashiness... Nothing about first person prevents some level of flashiness. Games like Red Steel were pretty flashy and cool (Albeit using the Wii's motion controls) but even things like Metal Gear Rising can have its flashy cool melee systems adapted to first person perspectives.
Parkour is not limited by first person perspectives.
Mirror's Edge is one of the premier parkour games to ever exist and is a first person title.
It again simply comes down to spending the resources on implementing it. CP2077 simply forwent parkour systems.
Cover mechanics can function in first person perspectives. There's literally nothing stopping them from functioning.
The singular thing you are incapable of doing that third person is, is the blindfiring where you shoot (With useless amounts of inaccuracy) without exiting the cover. Which is a feature that is 99.99% of the time, completely irrelevant (The only niche scenario for it is if some large target is directly on the other side of your cover so you can dump bullets into it without need for accuracy)
Umm... Things like attachments to guns to have ammo counter generally wouldn't work very well in a third person perspective where your camera won't be particularly close to your gun...
Sure, you could try and make it work with novelty oversized projections or weird ADS camera angles... But that kind of thing would work far better in first person perspectives (Which is why games in which you have ammo counters on guns are all FPS while all TPS rely on HUD's for that information)
I say this stuff as someone who generally perfers third person over first person perspectives. There's little actually limiting from using first person perspective in general. It mostly comes down to how well a developer decides to implement features.
While first person DOES inherently have some immersive benefits over third person since you are literally seeing through the eyes* of the character. You see what they see. Things like drunk effects and visual impairment makes more sense. When you look around, your character is looking there too (So characters can react to say... You staring at their breasts...)
*Technically, first person perspectives put you in the character's chest in terms of hitboxes and when accounting for where hand positions are... The only exception to this is being able to see your full body when looking down.
Not really, in cyberpunk your camera is in the head (around the mouth). That's why reflections aren't enabled for the player, and the shadows seems so bad in combat. The solution is to have 2 bodies, one for the player view (but invisible for the "world") and one for the world for shadows and reflection (but invisible from fps view).
They probably didn't had time for this, it need 2x animations and sync them, and need to handle how it works while switching camera in vehicles, in photo mode. + the cinematic team needs 2 animations too.
They might do it for cyberpunk Orion, but i totally understand why they didn't in the first cyberpunk tbh.
I agree, but everything is "Passable" after Nier automata lol.
Please keep in mind that getting too personal is neither needed nor allowed.
We are very much aware that the topic of first and third person is highly volatile, so, everyone, please make sure you do not cross the line into hostility, rudeness, or anything of the sort.
We are very much aware that the topic of first and third person is highly volatile, so, everyone, please make sure you do not cross the line into hostility, rudeness, or anything of the sort.
Yeah, but what's you explained in the rest of your post are more your likings, opinions or feelings. Indeed if you're sick while playing in first person, you shouldn't feel immersed
Let me take an example again :
If you play to a driving simulator game (or a flying simulator), it's more "immersive" to play with a wheel & pedals in cockpit view rather than playing from outside view and with a controller. On the same way, a first person shooter is in theory more immersive than a third person shooter. It have nothing to do with how good or bad the gameplay is, or could be.
So in the same way, when playing Cyberpunk in first person, you should feel more "immersed" (in theory) when you see Royce pointing out his gun directly on your face rather than seeing the scene from outside.
At least I do, I feel more immersed that's for sure. And in Cyberpunk, it was great and very well done, better than most of games
While I agree with you on the question of which perspective is more immersive is an entirely subjective matter, there is something to be said about CDPR themselves thinking a particular perspective is better for them to deliver a more immersive experience.
I mean, I personally do not think a third person shooter is anywhere near as immersive as a first person. To me, it just isn't possible. Melee combat can be done extremely well in first person too. CP2077 did a good job but others have done better in that sense. Same goes for parkour.
You, clearly, would say all of this is done better in third person. Which is entirely fine and a completely valid position since it's so subjective.
But what of CDPR? What if their vision and the only way they can see themselves deliver on it is through first person? Should they sacrifice and compromise just so there is third person available? I personally don't think so.
Looking at @LeKill3rFou last post with that Royce picture. It just wouldn't have the same impact if it was seen from a third person perspective.
Obviously, since you suffer from motion sickness in first person, I get why it's a no-go for you. It would be the same for me but I would argue it would mean this game just isn't for me. As much as I'd like it to be, it just isn't.
I personally hope they stick with 3rd person in Orion. I wasn't a fan of first person in RPGs before CP2077 but now I am and if CDPR believes it's the best way to go in Orion, it won't be a problem for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating against third person. I used to prefer it and I understand why some prefer it. I would be completely fine with the option of third person with the caveat that it should not be done to the detriment of either perspectibe. Which is something that's never been done, one perspective is always done far better than the other.
I suppose that would ultimately depend on how the player identifies with the game.
Are they pretending that they ARE V? So having Royce's gun in their face helps solidify that feeling of being V in that situation.
Or are they simply WATCHING V? Whereby they're disassociated from the character itself and simply watch what occurs to the character.
It's a similar ideology as to the general debate on playing same sex characters or opposite sex ones.
Some people prefer playing characters of the same sex, because they're trying to BE their character and they more easily align themselves to a character of the same sex.
While some people might always disassociate from a character and always view their character as a separate entity and therefore have no qualms in regard to their sex as either way the situation is the same for them.
In the case of trying to BE a character, first person will always offer more immersion. Because as someone, you will experience the world from their first person perspective.
In the case of simply WATCHING a character, first person and third person are equally immersive. You aren't the character, you're just vicariously living their life based on your interaction of the narrative.
How about making cyberspace/local networks look like actual virtual spaces?
Like having a virtual beach, private coffee shop, garden, slide,...
And it could get weirder - e.g. a virtual pet,...
Or a virtual military hideout,...
It could be connected to/interact with reality using available hardware, human implants, software including hacks,...
Maybe cyberpsychos would look different in there...
And it could e.g. transfer hacks,... - e.g. PING (the quick hack) someone in cyberspace and track their signal in the real world,...
Edit:
Never mind, I remembered that it was in CP77 to some extent. Songbird's apartment, Zen master's visions, the pyramid in Mikoshi & getting on the rooftop of Misty's shop,...
Like having a virtual beach, private coffee shop, garden, slide,...
And it could get weirder - e.g. a virtual pet,...
Or a virtual military hideout,...
It could be connected to/interact with reality using available hardware, human implants, software including hacks,...
Maybe cyberpsychos would look different in there...
And it could e.g. transfer hacks,... - e.g. PING (the quick hack) someone in cyberspace and track their signal in the real world,...
Edit:
Never mind, I remembered that it was in CP77 to some extent. Songbird's apartment, Zen master's visions, the pyramid in Mikoshi & getting on the rooftop of Misty's shop,...
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Not turning this into a First/Third Person argument thread, thanks. Did this already for 2077. Feel free to go back and find some old threads and re-read them.
CDPR will do what CDPR is going to do, just like last time. I haven't seen a new argument for or against FPP or TPP in quite some time; I seriously doubt we'll see one here. Which, again, is an Orion Wishlist thread, not a fight about Preferred Perspective.
Please stay on topic, thank you.
CDPR will do what CDPR is going to do, just like last time. I haven't seen a new argument for or against FPP or TPP in quite some time; I seriously doubt we'll see one here. Which, again, is an Orion Wishlist thread, not a fight about Preferred Perspective.
Please stay on topic, thank you.
My main wish for Orion > I simply hope Boston's studio won't have to care to anything else than making the best game possible