Proper fix for coin flip balance.

[Struyk]

Proper fix for coin flip balance.

We can all agree that getting to start is a huge disadvantage?

• You run out of cards first so enemy can play a Weather Effect or D.Bomb as his last card. Imagine you having Commander's Horn as last card and enemy has D.Bomb as last card, starting player loses the round.

This is a bitch to fix, I've brainstormed for several days now...

This is what has to be changed IMO:

• The last turn should be equal for both players.

How to fix this?!:
Give the starting player the option to Skip his turn once a round! Only usable with 1 card left in hand and ahead in score! End round if enemy passes after.


You = Starting Player
Enemy = Player going second


Why end round if enemy passes after you skip?? Let's say you are behind in score and Skip:

You: Skip
Enemy: Pass
You: Any card ( Weather / D.Bomb for example )
Enemy: Can't do anything as he passed giving you a huge advantage.


Why only while ahead? Lets say you are behind and have a unit and enemy a Weather Effect.

You: Skip
Enemy: Passes because he's ahead and doesn't need his Weather Effect, otherwise You could just pass after and claim double card advantage because of the skip.
You: Unit to gain the lead
Enemy: Passed so he won't be able to react with his Weather Effect


You have a D.Bomb ( Counter to Commander's Horn ) and enemy has the Commander's Horn

You: Skip
Enemy: Commander's Horn
You: D.Bomb
Enemy: Any cards he got left


You have a First Light ( Counter to Weather Spell ) and enemy a Weather Spell
You: Skip
Enemy: Weather Effect
You: First Light
Enemy: Any cards he got left


You have a Alzur's Thunder ( Counter to a bronze or silver unit ) and the enemy a bronze or silver unit last card on round 3

You: Skip
Enemy: Unit
You: Alzur's Thunder
Enemy: Any cards he got left

Right now it would be:

You: Pass as there's nothing to use Alzur's Thunder on
Enemy: Any cards he got left
Game Over



These are just examples, let me know if you see any flaws to this system!

 

[SkyHeadCaptain]

nah a simple fix player who starts the game gets a 1 str unit in his hand so he has 1 more card then the guy that plays 2nd.

 

[Struyk]

nah a simple fix player who starts the game gets a 1 str unit in his hand so he has 1 more card then the guy that plays 2nd.

Yeah and what happens if you play it the first turn? You both will have the same amount of cards BUT in reality you just gave first turn to your enemy as he will empty his hand first.

It would work if you can only play the unit while ahead, but then you get 1 str advantage ( and unit can be buffed ) over the enemy which is why I turned it into a skip instead ( playing a 1 str unit is basicly skipping your turn )

 

[exie]

The person who goes first should get a coin that lets him skip a turn, BUT he can only play it after the first round, so he can't just play it at the start.

 

[Isi23_23]

Giving first player extra card solve absolutely nothing you simply switch who will have advantage in game, even if this card would be Do nothing. Possible solution would be to give first player extra points or extra mulligan.

 

[ElectroBlade]

Still don't think this fixes anything as it just gives the starting player a total of 12 plays as opposed to 11 by default, which is even more unfair. Honestly going first isn't that horrendous, and turn order will never be perfectly balanced in any card game.

 

[Struyk]

The person who goes first should get a coin that lets him skip a turn, BUT he can only play it after the first round, so he can't just play it at the start.

Yes but then you still just give the enemy first turn?

You only want the player going first skipping his turn while he's ahead of while he has 1 card left in his hand?

Still trying to figure some things out XD

 

[Tamacountry13]

Having the first player "skip a turn" would put the second player in the disadvantage/change nothing.
The only somewhat fair way should give the first unit played the starting player a strength buff of 3 or 5

 

[Lim3zer0]

One of the ideas CDPR were toying around with was the idea of changing the card draws, at the beginning of rounds 2 and 3.

At the beginning of these rounds (2 and 3) the winner of the previous round only draws 1 card whilst the looser will draw 2.

i can't say if this idea will come to fruition, but it's definitely an idea

 

[Struyk]

One of the ideas CDPR were toying around with was the idea of changing the card draws, at the beginning of rounds 2 and 3.

At the beginning of these rounds (2 and 3) the winner of the previous round only draws 1 card whilst the looser will draw 2.

i can't say if this idea will come to fruition, but it's definitely an idea

This gives card advantage problems which we don't have right now... Just turn advantage problems that need to be fixed XD



Edited alot, should be good now!

 

[D0om]

Tbh my guess is that there's no problem i.e. on average 1st player/2nd player win ratio is around 50/50. That said I'm only guessing based on my observations of the game, CDPR knows for sure, if there's a discrepancy in winrate due to going first or second I'm sure they will notice it and address it somehow (there would be many possible solutions, but again, I doubt the issue exists in the 1st place).

 

[Struyk]

Tbh my guess is that there's no problem i.e. on average 1st player/2nd player win ratio is around 50/50. That said I'm only guessing based on my observations of the game, CDPR knows for sure, if there's a discrepancy in winrate due to going first or second I'm sure they will notice it and address it somehow (there would be many possible solutions, but again, I doubt the issue exists in the 1st place).

There's no way its 50/50... It could be with same insane RNG luck XD
The problems are there and they are pretty obvious... You just can't react to the last enemy card played so he can play a D.Bomb or Weather Effect.

I said it before in my other topic:
If you get the start and have D.Bomb and enemy has Commander's Horn then you won't be able to play D.Bomb to counter his Commander's Horn if he plays it as last card. Simply because you are already out of cards when he plays it... And clockwise you will always lose going first with Commander's Horn because he can just counter it with D.Bomb ( the way it should be though... )

Going to bed, will read the comments tomorrow.
Hope some Developers will reply as well

 

[Knightlon]

Maybe it could be like that if it's a draw, the starting player wins. Just an opinion, don't personally totally agree with it - I kinda like games ending in a tie and don't see such a great problem in the current state.
By the way: Ciri, Ocvist, Milva (with Roach or empty opponent's side), Yaevinn, Stennis, Cantarella, Birna Bran, Donar, Decoy on a spy, ST ability... If you so much struggle with card advantage, just get any of these.

 

[Lexandre]

while i also believe starting 1st is a serious disadvantage it would be interesting to see the official statistics about win rates of players who went first against players who went second before jumping to some conclusions

 

[milosh69]

Forgive my ignorance but after playing dozens if not hundred of hours I am still not 100% sure how the mechanism works. Is the coin tossed before every round starts or is there a fixed mechanic? Because often I start the first round and then I also have to start on the second round, leaving me with a 2 card disadvantage. Only on the last round the opponent has to start (I'm not speaking about ST ability). I would have thought that if I start the first round, opponent has to start on the second round but this is clearly not the case. Please enlighten me

 

[NlelithZ44]

milosh69 Initial flip is random. Player who won the round starts the next one (unless ST use their ability).

 

[pl91]

a possible solution(though highly complicated to implement) would be."first round only,at the end of the round,if the player that started first is behind in score,and has 0 cards in hand,he/she draws a card and can play it".

if the player that played first is behind in score and has 0 cards in hand,it is highly likely that playing first in the round played a pretty big role.so he gets an advantage and is able to turn things around.if he does,then in the second round he plays first again and is at a disadvantage(you know,kind of).if the player decides to keep the card and lose the round then he has to win 2 rounds with a slight card advantage.

thoughts?it may be kinda op or even abusable,but i think that any kind of solution has to be applied at the end of the round.

 

[Struyk]

a possible solution(though highly complicated to implement) would be."first round only,at the end of the round,if the player that started first is behind in score,and has 0 cards in hand,he/she draws a card and can play it".

if the player that played first is behind in score and has 0 cards in hand,it is highly likely that playing first in the round played a pretty big role.so he gets an advantage and is able to turn things around.if he does,then in the second round he plays first again and is at a disadvantage(you know,kind of).if the player decides to keep the card and lose the round then he has to win 2 rounds with a slight card advantage.

thoughts?it may be kinda op or even abusable,but i think that any kind of solution has to be applied at the end of the round.

You don't want to draw an extra card as starting player, this is a huge disadvantage to the player going second.
You need turn advantage so the starting player doesn't end with a loss after passing the last round with no cards and enemy still has a card left to win with ( Weather, D.Bomb or other game changers ).
I think my solution fixes this, and I can't think of any situation where it could be abused. LMK if I'm wrong here

Any Dev with statistics / their opinion? Would suck if we were discussing this for no reason if you guys decide that it will never get changed in the first place...

 

[pl91]

You don't want to draw an extra card as starting player, this is a huge disadvantage to the player going second.
You need turn advantage so the starting player doesn't end with a loss after passing the last round with no cards and enemy still has a card left to win with ( Weather, D.Bomb or other game changers ).
I think my solution fixes this, and I can't think of any situation where it could be abused. LMK if I'm wrong here

Any Dev with statistics / their opinion? Would suck if we were discussing this for no reason if you guys decide that it will never get changed in the first place...

ok,then if the player doesnt use the extra card,then the card goes back in the deck,and the players still have equal cards in second round.this way its not abuseable.

 

[milosh69]

milosh69 Initial flip is random. Player who won the round starts the next one (unless ST use their ability).

Ah thank you very much for clarifying this. Hmm with this knowledge I can adjust my playstyle now to get better CA