Purpose and interaction of/with objects and mechanics

[0248991]

Hey,
I have not seen a thread which discusses the purpose of objects interactivity in relation to game mechanics, so I created this one.

To start it, what is your opinion on some of these?

1. What should be the interactions and game mechanics related to the monorail train - so to call it - which could be seen both in the demo and trailer? Should there be some ticket selling mechanism, unpassable tourniquets, arrival/depart boards,...? How should the crowds/trains AI react to doors being blocked by something - I could imagine that if all the doors aren't closed the train will never leave the station...?
2. What should be the purpose and "lore" of acid rains? They were mentioned in some interview I believe. Wouldn't it be weird if they actually dealt damage? I mean... it's a nice sunny day, suddenly the sky turns green and everybody starts running for their lives...?
3. What about car navigation? How should the AI work? Should they just drive according to the law, respect all the rules...except where scripted? Take the scavenger chase from the demo as an example.

I believe there's plenty more, so feel free to add to the discussion

 

[Skirlasvoud]

1. Typically, a monorail would be a fast travel mechanism, so I expect it to work fast. No tourniquets, timetables or ticket booths. It needs to be streamlined. We get to the station, a train coincidentally/arrives, we step up to the door, our account gets credited automatically, and if we have the funds the doors stay open. We enter and the train wooshes off.
If they want to add immersion by adding other passengers trying to enter, I can imagine this being slightly harder to simulate. Maybe you buy your travel pass online (like we have in Europe), but that's linked to your bank account digitally and there would be turnstiles that charge you automatically or bar you if you have insufficient funds. No swiping a pass or anything. Shouldn't be harder than just jogging through this city. Then you get onto the platform and wrestle the other passengers for the opening like what happens in any crowded Western city. Still no timetables or ticket booths.

2. I'd be surprised if they add mechanical concequences to acid rain. If they do, it won't harm your health, but it could hamper your tech perhaps? Mass Effect 3 had acid rain hazards that would short out your shields.

3. There's already a big "how should driving work" thread in the forums, so we shouldn't be discussing that here.
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...he-driving-work.11005177/page-3#post-11550688

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I have not seen a thread which discusses the purpose of objects interactivity in relation to game mechanics

Oh boy... I’ve talked about this quite a lot and often in detail during the years.

I’d have (and have had) a ton to say, but there’s a limit to post length and I’m not exactly sure how ”worth it” it would be a this point anymore to start writing longwinded multipost essays about interactivity and game mechanics (people tend to pass those by).

Needless to say, though, I’d want interactivity and their related game mechanics to go through the roof. There’d be bound to be a lot of small things, that might seem insignificant at a glance, but not everything needs to turn the world upside down. However, the more there is stuff linked to mechanics and systems, the more worthwhile and interesting performing those actions will feel.

Something as simple as sitting down on a park bench or a bar stool, or inspectibg a graffiti or a poster on a wall feels much more significant and intriguing if there is a chance/promise of some form of systemic relevance (how ever small) to it.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

1. Typically, a monorail would be a fast travel mechanism, so I expect it to work fast. No tourniquets, timetables or ticket booths. It needs to be streamlined. We get to the station, a train coincidentally/arrives, we step up to the door, our account gets credited automatically, and if we have the funds the doors stay open. We enter and the train wooshes off.
If they want to add immersion by adding other passengers trying to enter, I can imagine this being slightly harder to simulate. Maybe you buy your travel pass online (like we have in Europe), but that's linked to your bank account digitally and there would be turnstiles that charge you automatically or bar you if you have insufficient funds. No swiping a pass or anything. Shouldn't be harder than just jogging through this city. Then you get onto the platform and wrestle the other passengers for the opening like what happens in any crowded Western city. Still no timetables or ticket booths.

I suggested pretty much the same here.

How difficult would it be? 2007, PS3:

Acid rains: very cool, at the same time it'd destroy pacing if they deal DMG. So I'd prefer not to have them in this way. When it rains NPCs use umbrellas like in GTA vice city (2002, PS2). They can't be to dangerous anyway, it wouldn't make sense to be that acidic, life wouldn't be possible.

 

[tre288]

I'd like if a monorail system worked in real time and wasnt just "fade to black. You're there"

I'd like to be able to walk around on the monorail as it travels to whatever stop I'll be getting off at, and not glued down to a seat with a cinematic cam as it travels either.

Think taking cabs when GTA IV came out, only.. less like that because in a cab you can only be seated and cant walk around lol.

Also, I don't think acid raid comes from green clouds haha

 

[Rawls]

What should be the interactions and game mechanics related to the monorail train - so to call it - which could be seen both in the demo and trailer?

According to the demo the monorail is going to be called NCART - “Night City Area Rapid Transit.”

Should there be some ticket selling mechanism, unpassable tourniquets, arrival/depart boards,...?

I certainly hope there is. The feeling of oppressive unfairness and economic struggle is a central theme in the cyberpunk genre. Make it so we have to pay to get across town would definitely help with that feeling. Don't like it cause it's a hassle? Do a couple jobs and then V can afford it. Easy peasy ... so long as you don't get killed.

How should the crowds/trains AI react to doors being blocked by something - I could imagine that if all the doors aren't closed the train will never leave the station...?

I don't think this is a big deal one way or the other. Whatever is most efficient for the game system.

What should be the purpose and "lore" of acid rains? They were mentioned in some interview I believe. Wouldn't it be weird if they actually dealt damage? I mean... it's a nice sunny day, suddenly the sky turns green and everybody starts running for their lives...?

I think the simplest way to do it is you take some mild damage if your out in acid rain without protection. Nothing crazy, just something to simulate the fact that it's stinging your skin. Maybe also corrode any external cyberware.

What about car navigation? How should the AI work? Should they just drive according to the law, respect all the rules...except where scripted? Take the scavenger chase from the demo as an example.

This is a much more complicated question and system. I don't think it has to be top notch, just good enough that it doesn't detract from the experience overall nor too complicated that it eats all the games CPU power.

 

[Cybunknymph]

I really want to see a very important train system that is ALWAYS on time. By 2077 it would have to be set up on an AI type of system structure in terms of scheduling. It should perhaps be set up like a day/night cycle when needed.

So that, if needed, running to your train can be beneficial, like if you need to run from someone and you just barely make it on the train...they don't. It's the type of thing you see in movies, but could work with such preciseish timing. Maybe on the rides it would be like another atmosphere as well. Complete with actually riding the train, time passing by. People are always looking for marks and it can be somewhat dangerous if you look like a easy target. Tickets should be thing and paying eddies for them should be a thing for sure.

Acid rain should be corrosive to your tech especially, but meat just feels like burning with minimal damage. I could see the acid rain thing as a mechanic to push people inside places and force randomized interactions if you were to go into those places as well.

Acid rain falls: "Oh damn, closest place is that bar. Can't mess up new tech."
Runs to bar. Few drinks. Few fights. New frens.

Or you could just run through it, tastes like...burning.

 

[Rawls]

it, tastes like...burning.

I loled.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Guys, acids are way more dangerous for skin than circuits and metal. You need a ridiculously strong and concentrated acid (and an oxydizing one, not any acid) to dissolve the most common metals. Even plastic is more resistent than skin. Skin, on the other hand, can be damaged quite easily even with stuff you buy in supermarkets (I.E. hydrochloric acid).
Source: I'm a chemist and you're welcome to try to pour hydrochloric acid on your skin and on a fork. See what happens. (Don't do it. Just don't)

 

[Rawls]

I'm a chemist and you're welcome to try to pour hydrochloric acid on your skin and on a fork.

I don't think the acid rain will be anything that strong. Also, as long as the PH is around 4 hydrocloric acid can be used as wound treatment IIRC. EDIT: Granted I think your only suppose to leave it on the wounds for 10-15 seconds.

 

[Cybunknymph]

I'm just taking dilution into account, the sky is vast and clouds could be sparse or ominous. Checking a Stanley Media may give you something to go on for the day/night.

Skin should feel like burning, but melting is another monster altogether. Eww. Do not want.

But what about the people that will stand in it. There will be those. Maybe skin melting to a degree that your character is just a little disfigured could work. Like you go back to your customization screen and your character's skin is pink and your face is looking old or droopy. It would be an incentive for players to avoid the acid rain, but then again there will probably be those out there that want to play as the Toxic Avenger.

 

[Draconifors]

I'm a chemist and you're welcome to try to pour hydrochloric acid on your skin and on a fork.

I'm a chemist too and I cringed at the thought of HCl on bare skin.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

I don't think the acid rain will be anything that strong. Also, as long as the PH is around 4 hydrocloric acid can be used as wound treatment IIRC. EDIT: Granted I think your only suppose to leave it on the wounds for 10-15 seconds.

that's the point, acid rains can't be that strong or life would be impossible.

Never heard about pouring HCl on your wounds and don't really see why it should help unless as disinfectant (but you can use disinfectants which are not harmful, so...), but it must be painful as fuck. I mean, I poured it on my skin millions of times (shit happens) and it has never been pleasant, even when diluted.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2019

I'm a chemist too and I cringed at the thought of HCl on bare skin.

thanks, fellow chemist.

 

[Rawls]

Never heard about pouring HCl on your wounds and don't really see why it should help unless as disinfectant (but you can use disinfectants which are not harmful, so...), but it must be painful as fuck.

I'm pretty sure it's the stuff we use on really deep cuts at my house. You pour it on, let it sit for 10 seconds, and rinse it off.

Nevermind it's "Hypochlorous Acid" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853324/

 

[Cybunknymph]

Chemistry is fing scary.

I love it.

Danger is funny.

Teehee.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

I'm pretty sure it's the stuff we use on really deep cuts at my house. You pour it on, let it sit for 10 seconds, and rinse it off.

Nevermind it's "Hypochlorous Acid" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853324/

yeah, now it makes sense.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

It might be fun if it rained LSD on occasion. Acid is acid.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

It might be fun if it rained LSD on occasion. Acid is acid.

I know it's a joke, but you guys brought out the chemist in me, too much lack of accuracy, so...

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm kidding, I'm not explaining this

Sorry mods, we're going back IT.

 

[Cybunknymph]

It might be fun if it rained LSD on occasion. Acid is acid.

Uhh...

"I can withstand this acid rain to accomplish my mission"

Trips balls.

Mission accomplished. I saw GOD annnnd got a new gun. Neat.


Anyway, I like heights as long as it's in games. I'm hoping the verticality comes into play a good bit. As in, you can fall (be careful), but you can also use it as a weapon against others (insert Judge Dredd scene where everyone "trips and falls").
If one were so inclined, could rappelling be a thing??
Just watched the "Death Stranding" trailer again and that rappelling scene is pretty sexy.
You know, with all that slippery moss and heavy luggage. Hoping 2077 can do it better?

 

[Skirlasvoud]

thanks, fellow chemist.

Toxicologist here, which is at least a branch of bio-chemistry.

The moment we’re talking about actual acids strong enough to irritate the skin, you already have bigger worries then the acid itself.
Frankly, I’m kinda surprised the people of CP77 aren’t all just cancerous, sterile blobs by this point. The residual chlorine after a reactive HCl shower would make damn near everything poisonous, much less any other compound capable of forming acid rain that doesn’t have water added (cause it’s a weak base.)

Also #notallmetals since there’s a few ion variants who are quite eager to bond with hydrogen into salts, compared to inert metals. Etc.