Questing in TW3

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Questing in TW3

I realize that TW3 is aiming to set a standard for the next generation of RPGs, and that's why I really feel the need to ask this- can we get back unguided questing from older cRPGs?

There's just a great feeling in being abandoned in the game world without quest directives, without quest markers, without diegetic verbal cues or signposting, and without any help in interpretation of the game world.

I feel that TW3 is halfway to having immersive role-playing because the game will not make a conscious effort to direct players to any quests, but what I feel hampers this immersion is the idea that there will be verbal prompting by Geralt to focus the player's attention, or that there might be some on-screen prompts on what to do.

The quote below is where I got these ideas.

"I hoped the player would now be trusted to figure out the monster’s weaknesses using Geralt’s encyclopedia, but everything except the actual fight is directed by on-screen prompts. We know from reading about Leshens, for example, that they create totems which must be destroyed to reduce their power, and we’re instructed do this as soon as we enter the forest, following a murder of crows to each of the monsters’ trophies and burning them—it’s possible this is just the player’s first introduction to the beast, though." source

Geralt is a master monster slayer, so it wouldn't make sense for him to get stuck with something oh-so-obvious because of bad role-playing by the player, but all in all, players want to be the ones to play the game- that means being allowed to use the game world, and the details provided therein, to play as investigators themselves.

I feel that if we just get to watch or listen to Geralt being a witcher, and play no active part in doing any interpretation of the environment and clues ourselves, then we're not really playing a game.

Basically, the players should be allowed to interpret the clues on their own. For example, if the player has learned that a monster's totems provide it with power, then let the player proceed to destroy them without on-screen prompting or verbal cues by Geralt himself.

It has been mentioned that playing a game includes the possibility of failure, and it wouldn't be interesting if the failure only comes from dying in combat.

At the very least, it would be nice to include an option for unguided questing for players who would like it.
 
I concur. Do away with tooltips, on-screen instructions, quest markers and all that other crap. However, verbal cues have their place although, yes, they shouldn’t be overused and replace the aforementioned things.
 
Well I do agree with OP,
Guided quests make me think I'm playing linear game, even if I was told that I can chose between two variants.
I think if player wants to immerse into game he will dedicate some time to it, and will study what he needs to do(and in case he stuck will search in google).
I'd say that you won't be able to immerse player just in few seconds after he loads the game, even if he told what to do. Plus such game as Witcher shouldn't be dummly walkthroughed, just to finish it. That reminds me of Deus ex where you can write your own notes, search for key codes, what made the game more than just a corridor shooter.
 
No markers please. Markers ruin games for me.

I don't want a big arrow to pop up on my map when someone asks me to look for a clue,
that takes the fun out of it.

It'd be great if we had to read books in the game to figure out where certain monsters
build their nests or have their lairs in order to hunt them down.
 
Gothic 1-3 questing was great
No hand holding,markers and such things and many times you needed to figure things out by yourself
 
if then limit it to the map (which I can choose not to use) and give enough clues in the environment or through dialogues to figure it out on your own. Quest should be designed around this and the area, not around (shudder) the fast-travel option like so many other lazy games do. the little pointer on the minimap was Ok most of the time since I usually either neglected to look at it or it was appropriate for the quest.
e.g. triss meeting us at the kayrans layer is something I would look up since it would be stupid to have Geralt combing thru the woods for hours while Triss is waiting there. I usually play TW2's quest in a logical manner first and then on other playthroughs I ignore them to fool around
1) "logical": e.g. flotsam: iorveth introduction - execution - tavern discussion - sile/kayran introduction - cedric introduction - kayran layer/muccus investigation - loredo meeting in evening

2) fool around: e.g. flotsam: iorveth introduction - ignore execution and go out exploring (nekker cave !!!!)
 
I've heard from sources that CDPR are talking about verbal cues a la TV shows "Previous on the witcher 3, geralt straps himself to 4 whores...."

and I thought that's a pretty cool idea to implement,

I opt for a few visual cues ONLY in the beggining for handholding

But when you're doing harder quests, there shouldn't be arrows pointing you to the "1000-year-old-never-found-before cave until now..."

So yes, minimal visual cues, lots of mystery solving and meddling kids :)
 
I wouldn´t count that murder of crows thing as an artificial visual cue. In fact, I think it´s a cool way to direct you to the totems this particular monster uses to power himself up. This is how I see it: you find the clues, deduce the monster is a Leshen, check the bestiary and read:
"The Leshen constructs totems that give it more power, so it is advisable to burn these totems before facing the beast. The presence of the monster´s victims´ corpses near the totems often attracts birds such as crows to them, so always look for murder of crows in the area where a Leshen operates to find the totems"
That way you know what to look for. Of course, you shouldn´t need an arrow pointing at the crows. Maybe, activating Witcher Sense could allow you to see the crows better at a distance, but that´s it.

That said, yeah, some quest markers shouldn´t be there. I liked the way you have to search for the Nekker tunnels and the Endrega cocoons in Flotsam, for example. However, some quest markers can be useful, particularly in an open world game (for example, when you want to turn in a completed quest and you don´t remember where to find the quest giver).

Edit:
About verbal cues, if they are nicely implemented it could be good.
As some people mentioned in other threads, Geralt saying things such as "Mmm, smells like troll´s fart" or when inspecting a corpse something like "Look at those bites... wonder if a rotfiend did this" can give clues as to what kind of monster you´re going to face without being handholding.
Also, when tracking a monster, Geralt could say something to indicate you´re in the right path. "These tracks are fresh", "The smell is stronger, must be getting close", things like that.
 
Yea, it would be difficult to get olfactory information about the environment without Geralt's help, and honestly I don't care if he verbalizes what he observes here or there, but figuring what to do should be left to the player. I hope the Devs are reading.

 
alextyc1 said:
Gothic 1-3 questing was great
No hand holding,markers and such things and many times you needed to figure things out by yourself

Yes. No automatic markers. Talk to people, get (may be vague) directions, may be in some cases get a crude hand-drawn map, and figure out the rest. We will have this witcher sense after all, so it should not be a big problem to use it in order to find traces, like foot- paw-prints and such.

In general, I want more dialogues in games, where directions are given through conversations, not stupid automatic markers.
 
I wouldn't mind having some unguided quests just to add variety, but given the fact that i like to do every little side quest in the game i would not like this feature to be "abused" it would just be too difficult to find/complete everything that way.
 
I fucking hate huds and markers, pointers, button prompts and even crosshairs for single player FPS games.

I want to be free to roam in the fantasy of this virtual world, and if i get lost or i dont know where to go in a quest or sommething, let me ask the people from the town or village, like Geralt would if he forgets someting, just let me find my own way.

Hear me out CDPRED !!!! make options to disable all the modern dumbing down handholding crap
 
Personally, I disliked Skyrim for its none user UI friendly and many similar things.
The result ?
It was the fans, FANS! Who made a mod to fill up this flaw : Sky UI.
So its kind thanks to the Modders/fans that Skyrim is so loved in my opinion.

I don't want to see this for Witcher 3 : that fans may do the job of a dev so yes an option is good so everyone could be happy.


Quests with no markers or talk to people randomly by default ?
I just so don't wanna do your quests because I don't want to spend hours searching because I prefer to advance in the game. One of another few reasons why I dropped Skyrim.

Is it really that fun to search ? Then ask yourself why then a mod has been created (and so it's popular) to auto detect which book has been already read or not and if the book will unlock a quest in Skyrim ?

Why a popular mod was created to have markers on the world map ? Etc...
That's probably mean that it's not that fun to waste hours to search where to go or do in a game or people don't want to miss anything. This is just a guess.


Well it's CD project choice to do what they want in the end but we really need also to think how to make a game user friendly so new players can come and enjoy their game. User friendly doesn't mean to make an easy game. User friendly mean to make a game with system easy to use and understand so the player can no life them (crafting or leveling up) without feeling bored too quickly and instead want to use the systems more and more and wish that new additions will be made for X systems or things in the game.
 
Quests with no markers or talk to people randomly by default ?
I just so don't wanna do your quests because I don't want to spend hours searching because I prefer to advance in the game. One of another few reasons why I dropped Skyrim.

Hm just to clarify, what I meant by "no verbal cues" was that we shouldn't be told by Geralt on what to do- it would be nice if he remarks on the environment or the situation whatever, but please don't have him tell us explicitly what needs to be done to proceed. I dislike that idea because then Geralt is practically playing the game for us, and we're just going through the motion of clicking buttons.
 
cmdrsilverbolt said:
Hm just to clarify, what I meant by "no verbal cues" was that we shouldn't be told by Geralt on what to do- it would be nice if he remarks on the environment or the situation whatever, but please don't have him tell us explicitly what needs to be done to proceed. I dislike that idea because then Geralt is practically playing the game for us, and we're just going through the motion of clicking buttons.

Exactly. The way it was done with Cedric was fine. Geralt can mutter stuff to himself but the writers have to be extremely careful about not giving anything away.
 
Geralt should not tell what is to be done, if the game has proper research about a quest, there is no need for that.
Also :'My medallion vibrates," was driving me insane.
 
slimgrin said:
Exactly. The way it was done with Cedric was fine. Geralt can mutter stuff to himself but the writers have to be extremely careful about not giving anything away.
Not giving anything away? Don’t you mean “too much”?
 
Demut said:
Not giving anything away? Don’t you mean “too much”?

Yes, that's what I mean. Anyone who plays the Arkham games for example, knows how this should not be done.
 
All right, as long as TW3 is designed with unguided questing in mind, with all the clues and dialogue options present in game, and for whose who want to play it in Gothic 2 fashion, I do not object to having an option markers be shown on a map. But I do not want TW3 designed with markers in mind, and skipping on in-game clues.
 
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