Radiant or Randomly Generated Repeatable Missions

[GrimReaper801]

Alright thanks. So this suggestion is unlikely to find its way into the game then. Too bad.


There seems to be more people on the steam forums in favour of this.
Guys what about the street assassin mission? It could be somewhat easy to implement and add a lot of random variety.
You either go to a local fixer or call them by phone, then select the mission type you want to do, for example, street assassin.
Then the target(s) spawn somewhere in the fixer's district where pedestrians can spawn, and you have to go there to kill them. They walk in a group somewhat separated. Say, four guys around the main target and then another four guys spread out? You could climb a nearby building and take them out with a sniper for precision, or you could go in guns blazing and risk civilians. Or just mantis blade them.
What about that? Doesn't that sound like a fun activity?

I get the appeal of radiant quests. I'm not much of a fan myself but I get the appeal that one might have for a game they like to be "technically" never ending.

To me, your assassin type idea sounds like it would be fun 1-3 times. After that I'd get bored of it and never do it again.

Many have touched upon why radiant quests are of low quality and that much is true. There is one aspect I haven't seen anyone talk about though and it's, in my opinion, the only really worthy aspect of radiant quests. What the true goal behind radiant quests in a game like Skyrim is.

The true goal isn't to have you do X repetitive action. The quest themselves are crap and repetitive. The true goal is to get you out there exploring, seeing the world and that is something I can get behind. Be it a dungeon, a cave or some other kind of area. It's a semi-subtle way of pushing exploration on the players. Exploration with a goal instead of aimlessly wandering and maybe stumbling upon something.

A game like Skyrim lends itself well to this type of quests. A game like CP2077 does not. The design philosophy behind the two open worlds is completely different and I don't see any type of radiant quests ever staying fresh in a game like CP2077, they would clash horribly with the world's design philosophy.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Just a thought : Keep this kind of quests for the multiplayer (if there is one).
In my opinion, to have fun with your buddies, no "good story" is required, you simply need a building to assault and bunch of enemies to destroy

 

[Witzzard]

Well some stuff feels more fitting in a setting like Night City, than in Skyrim or Fallout 4.
Solely because Night City actually feels crowded and rotten to the bones. So while it feels quite wierd that every other day some specific caves, forts or settlements get repopulated by bandits/slavers, it doesn't nessecarily feel wierd or bad to me, if there are another 5 criminals trying to rob someone in night city.
The whole NCPD gigs have already somewhat of a radiant quest feeling to me in terms of them not all being deeply developed. So i'm not adverse towards them actually becoming somewhat radiant, by e.g. reappearing or having a constant shuffle of say 15 or so popping up each ingame day.

Besides that, as i think playing around and finding styles to fight, why not getting some endless dungeon (as in other CRPGS) style military simulation - somewhat similar in style to the Miltech training chip in the beginning?

 

[LuciusConfucius]

@Witzzard
Exactly, good point. I would be happy with the NCPD gigs being repeatable.

@GrimReaper801
Exploring is a good reason to have these random missions.

@northwold
About the game not establishing V as a hitman.
Well, we already have gun for hire gigs that are pretty much on the map screaming "assassination mission" already, so I don't think that kind of argument works very well. V can be an assassin, whether they like it or not, whether it was meant to or not. So not having these missions because of that excuse may not work.


Overall, I, and many like me, just want a reason to play the game longer and explore more of night city. Random street missions would be a way of enabling us to do that. With non-random content, there will always be a limit. With random content, there will be no end. Those who do not like random missions just don't need to play them. And if you are scared that the developers may spend more time on random content rather than fixed, I doubt it. The random missions would be a bonus, nothing else.

 

[SpookyFX]

Right, if you do not like it do not play it and just buy a new game or play the same game over and over again.
For me I do not like 90% of the games made. So when one is made I like I want to play it indefinitely until the next "good" game finally comes out.

Unfortunately like well done Halloween animatronic scare most designers do not know how to apply them in the right way, so "procedural" gets a bad rap by both the craftsman and the customers (the tool gets blamed).

Once we have actual AI all "open world" games will be "procedurally generated" anyway. "Games" will be the only software (for a while ) that the public will trust/allow such a thing.

 

[Wenceslaus]

Yes, gigs are alittle bit like radiant quest, that is what I meant by "bandit camps".
To me personally they are already a bit annoying and immersion breaking as they are static and wait for player.... "gamey" I guess.
They feel like an another settlement that needs help.

Having more of them on the map or anywhere unless I actively seek them would make the game worse for me and it would spoil exloring and the immersion.

If those would be more like random events, I could see the connection between the gameplay and crime in the Night City.
Although in RDR2, the escaped prisoner event also felt so very artifical after 2nd/3rd time....

A good procedurally generated content needs a lot of work from almost all departments and even them could be repetitive.
I still think that Cyberpunk could use their work elsewhere.

 

[SpookyFX]

A good procedurally generated content needs a lot of work from almost all departments and even them could be repetitive.
I still think that Cyberpunk could use their work elsewhere.

The one I made for Fallout 4 was a lot of work true, but I was only one person doing it.
As GrimReaper801 said the good ones get you out exploring the open world. I think GrimReaper801 may be right as that is how my Fallout mod worked. You are scavenging EVERYWHERE to find car parts to build a car. The way I made it theses items could be found (spawn) literally in any spot at any elevation on the map (from the top of a tower to the bottom of a ditch under a dead creature or still in broken down cars). So you eventually would poke your nose into every obscure, unfound, unobvious or hidden location in the game. And my system rewarded you often enough in your search for you to not get bored and not feel like it is a waste of time.

Looking for the Hidden Gems in NC I found all kinds of locations I did not realize were in the game! And this sometimes would then trigger a new side quest I did not realize I had not done yet. Remember the gems are actually dead bodies with a story. So you would be searching for the "person" and given clues that come from the friends and family as to where to look.

Realistically the DEV are never going to do this (procedural) as they already said they would not.

But I can almost guarantee someone will make a mod (maybe myself) to turn the hidden gems into a 40 plus hour quest.

The DEV could do this very easily with very little work and if you want to find them the hard way then just do not trigger the gems quest for Pete's Sake.

Edit: I would 100% agree that adding things in the city to do like making the pool tables work as a mini game would be a better use of the DEV time however.

 

[northwold]

So, different but in a similar vein, I would make fast travel very, very expensive so that people don't do it much (or require a ticket, or something) and then have randomly spawned gang events/ stories that are triggered in your vicinity or similar if you must have radiant quests. Something that feels more organic to the world of the city than "go to a menu and demand a job".

My suspicion is that the devs would have wanted the gangs, and your interaction with them, to play a more significant role in the game than it did.

A lot of the issues I have with this come down to how Cyberpunk's mission delivery was thought out. Just being bombarded with phone calls. And I'd say it was poorly thought out but I'm not sure that's actually fair: the game is based in a city so walking up to the nearest village to get missions is less workable / less easily navigated by the player. But as the game's mechanics currently work, getting to pick up randomly generated jobs would feel even less organic than something that is already bordering on quite silly.

The obvious venue to facilitate endgame mission pick-up (if that's what you want) would be Afterlife. You would walk into Afterlife and it would function as a sort of trading house of random merc jobs. But that is not, as things stand, in the game.

On hidden gems, i do think they work better as nice things to find rather than "you must go find this". They add to the world rather than feeling like rewards for doing pointless missions that have been dumped in random places on the map. The story quests themselves already lead the player around most of the map. The trouble is that with fast travel people do not then explore.

I don't know, I like stories to be picked up organically and feel like they're not just being delivered by the game (I really hated the noticeboards in Witcher 3 they felt artificial to me and gamey). And the more things depart from that, the less it appeals and feels like a real world. It starts becoming the MMO thing of "go to the person with the yellow arrow above their head for your daily big monster quest and the guy with the blue one for the daily dungeon quest" etc. It makes the gameworld feel increasingly superficial and unreal.

And I really dislike the assassinations idea. It's made very clear that V is a licensed merc, not a criminal. It's not an "excuse". That is the game's setup. And while the line is, indeed, blurred, "here go do a random hit, here's another" crosses the line entirely and gets into Bethesda nonsense territory of be the world's most horrific serial killer assassin and then go stroke puppies and no one will care. There need to be reputational consequences and I can't see a system that sophisticated being added to the game at this point.

 

[LuciusConfucius]

@northwold
Saying V isn't an assassin is like burying your head in the sand and saying "no I did not kill hundreds of people throughout the story, I did not!"
We will simply be have to agree to disagree.

But let's say the street assassin mission was changed to a NCPD criminal subdue mission? Would it be less of a crossing your line then?
Mission would change from assassinating the gang member to "Subdue gang member, use of defensive lethal force authorized." It would pretty much be the same thing, with different wording and bonus points if everyone is left unconcious.

Edit: Either way, getting caught up on one of the repeatable missions is missing the point. We just want more to do. There could be plenty of missions that align with your own personal views. Taxi missions maybe? Protection missions? Check the steam thread for a variety of suggestions.

I also welcome more suggestions for random repeatable missions in this thread, let's give the devs some ideas!

 

[northwold]

@northwold
Saying V isn't an assassin is like burying your head in the sand and saying "no I did not kill hundreds of people throughout the story, I did not!"
We will simply be have to agree to disagree.

But let's say the street assassin mission was changed to a NCPD criminal subdue mission? Would it be less of a crossing your line then?
Mission would change from assassinating the gang member to "Subdue gang member, use of defensive lethal force authorized." It would pretty much be the same thing, with different wording and bonus points if everyone is left unconcious.

Edit: Either way, getting caught up on one of the repeatable missions is missing the point. We just want more to do. There could be plenty of missions that align with your own personal views. Taxi missions maybe? Protection missions? Check the steam thread for a variety of suggestions.

I also welcome more suggestions for random repeatable missions in this thread, let's give the devs some ideas!

Yes of course they're almost the same thing but that would be more story consistent and so work better. It's about using mechanics that embed random quests into the world in a story appropriate way.

If there's a way of doing that with radiant quests I'm all for it but, quest delivery aside, CDPR actually did a really good job of making the world feel organic. It has a consistent atmosphere and tells its own stories.

Which is why, to me, if you add random gang stuff it can actually build on what is already there in a coherent and story appropriate way. What I don't like about most games' radiant quests is how incredibly tacked on they feel, and the better the world design the more I think that harms the experience. A bit like Blood and Wine's statue quests (granted not radiant / randomised). What was even the point of those things except to add filler content.

I think on a more general note for more content it's worth bearing in mind that we are still pre-expansion here.

 

[medion_no]

Like Adam Jensen pacifist run who went without killing and then they were all in a coma or in the hospital .

 

[tavellone]

'radiant' quests are lazy and shitty, please if anyone from CDPR reads this I bet you never to implement this into your games.

 

[medion_no]

'radiant' quests are lazy and shitty, please if anyone from CDPR reads this I bet you never to implement this into your games.

Open world games really need anything to do after endgame apart to buy part 2, that is a given...

 

[tavellone]

Open world games really need anything to do after endgame apart to buy part 2, that is a given...

Personally I believe the replayability of a game should be borne out of the quality of the game itself, rather than being trapped in some endless cycle of a content machine that Skyrim is. I've played games like The Witcher 2 and 3, Planescape Torment, Disco Elysium, Metal Gear Solid etc multiple times because of the quality of the art, the same way I can listen to a fantastic album or read a great book more than once. The Godfather II wouldn't be a better film if you could watch generic scenes of Vito Corleone shooting random nameless side characters infinitely.

I really don't see the appeal of repeating the same task again and again with no end or real outcome unless I'm getting paid £10 an hour.

 

[medion_no]

Personally I believe the replayability of a game should be borne out of the quality of the game itself, rather than being trapped in some endless cycle of a content machine that Skyrim is. I've played games like The Witcher 2 and 3, Planescape Torment, Disco Elysium, Metal Gear Solid etc multiple times because of the quality of the art, the same way I can listen to a fantastic album or read a great book more than once. The Godfather II wouldn't be a better film if you could watch generic scenes of Vito Corleone shooting random nameless side characters infinitely.

I really don't see the appeal of repeating the same task again and again with no end or real outcome unless I'm getting paid £10 an hour.

Sorry but for me more its always more XD (as long its completely optional). And now that you bring Vito killing more random nameless that just what happens there which is funny...

 

[Wenceslaus]

...

But a mission to get all parts to build a car is a small quest that has its end (functional car). Or am I wrong?
It doesn't sound me like something you do over and over again and if you would... I would probably gave up on car.
I would also like the parts being placed with care and some narrative, not finding carburator in a fridge at 10th floor of a hospital.

We clearly look at things with different view what fun, that is all.
I think that open world could have their end and that is right. I do not need or want another 40 hours just for sake of it.
I actually belong to the sort who think that Witcher 3 was too long, too spread—like Bilbo after wearing the ring.

IMHO, the Cyberpunk is not exactly clear what its style is. It has MMO style RPG mechanic and itemization, that is really gamey, but at the same time it prefer story over freedom of sandbox.

P.S.: Pool minigame doesn't sounds me any better. Unless there is a casino with a storyline in which you may play it.

 

[SpookyFX]

But a mission to get all parts to build a car is a small quest that has its end (functional car). Or am I wrong?
It doesn't sound me like something you do over and over again and if you would... I would probably gave up on car.

Well it will take a long time to get all the parts. Many parts have to be crafted from other parts building a system from subsystems. Like building the drive system from an engine and transmission that you had to first build from pistons and gears and so on. And the crafting for this was a mini game as well (too much to explain here but I will if you want me to),

You can build 7 different cars so this will take a LONG time, however you can also sell the car and use the profit to start again if you still have not had your fill of the great world and its IP.

Which after over a decade I still love to visit the Fallout universe so this gives me something to do while I am in there. Procedural generation is just the plot for the prono movie, but we all know we are NOT watching it for the plot.

I would also like the parts being placed with care and some narrative, not finding carburator in a fridge at 10th floor of a hospital.

Thinking about it this I realize my mod really works for the world it was designed for, where there has been hundreds of people and creatures moving junk around the world and storing or hiding or droping stuff everywhere. But that is true for any procedural system, you have to craft it to fit the game. However my mod used algorithm where you would have a better chance of finding certain parts in certain locations. So if you are searching for a hubcap you had the best chance in car wrecking yards or searching for paint in the hardware stores, but you could find the parts anywhere.

edit: wow I forgot how much effort I put into that mod, it was the last mod I made for a Bethesda game (this was a few years after Skyrim release). I did it because I thought Bethesda would buy it back when they were buying mods. But as we found out they really only wanted new models and textures (art work) that they could sell in their store. They purchased relatively no game mechanics mods at all, basically just wearables and new guns. I guess they were happy to just "borrow" game mechanics from modders instead.

We clearly look at things with different view what fun, that is all.
I think that open world could have their end and that is right. I do not need or want another 40 hours just for sake of it.

Not for the sake of it, for the LOVE of it...

I actually belong to the sort who think that Witcher 3 was too long, too spread—like Bilbo after wearing the ring.

IMHO, the Cyberpunk is not exactly clear what its style is. It has MMO style RPG mechanic and itemization, that is really gamey, but at the same time it prefer story over freedom of sandbox.

If a game world is not exhilarating enough for you to want to spend as much time as possible in then I am not surprised that is how you feel. I myself do not like most games made these days. I use to purchase around 10 games a year, now I am only buying maybe two or three a year.

P.S.: Pool minigame doesn't sounds me any better. Unless there is a casino with a storyline in which you may play it.

I did a poll on this and I was shocked how many players do want the mini game pool table. My point however was to just give me more inter-activity in Night City to give me a "plot" for the "movie".
.
I would take more interactive Night City over the DEV using time to make a procedural quest system if I had to choose.

 

[Wenceslaus]

Well it will take a long time to get all the parts. Many parts have to be crafted from other parts building a system from subsystems. Like building the drive system from an engine and transmission that you had to first build from pistons and gears and so on. And the crafting for this was a mini game as well (too much to explain here but I will if you want me to),

You can build 7 different cars so this will take a LONG time, however you can also sell the car and use the profit to start again if you still have not had your fill of the great world and its IP.

Which after over a decade I still love to visit the Fallout universe so this gives me something to do while I am in there. Procedural generation is just the plot for the prono movie, but we all know we are NOT watching it for the plot.


Thinking about it this I realize my mod really works for the world it was designed for, where there has been hundreds of people and creatures moving junk around the world and storing or hiding or droping stuff everywhere. But that is true for any procedural system, you have to craft it to fit the game. However my mod used algorithm where you would have a better chance of finding certain parts in certain locations. So if you are searching for a hubcap you had the best chance in car wrecking yards or searching for paint in the hardware stores, but you could find the parts anywhere.

edit: wow I forgot how much effort I put into that mod, it was the last mod I made for a Bethesda game (this was a few years after Skyrim release). I did it because I thought Bethesda would buy it back when they were buying mods. But as we found out they really only wanted new models and textures (art work) that they could sell in their store. They purchased relatively no game mechanics mods at all, basically just wearables and new guns. I guess they were happy to just "borrow" game mechanics from modders instead.

Wow... that does sound as really lot of work!
And you are right, it fits Fallout universe not only because you are repairing a car but also that you could actually find items on place where they make little sence... though if done by Behtesda I would prefere most were placed with care and enviro in mind.
Anyway, if it's long process and 7 cars I would end up feeling that I'm grinding probably.

Not for the sake of it, for the LOVE of it...

That is why I wrote we have different view. I get it. Just not see it that way

If a game world is not exhilarating enough for you to want to spend as much time as possible in then I am not surprised that is how you feel. I myself do not like most games made these days. I use to purchase around 10 games a year, now I am only buying maybe two or three a year.

I would not put it that way. My first playtrough for both Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk was about 130 hours. That is above average Iwould say. I do like immersion of the worlds the CDPR is creating. I often just stop and watch trees in Velen bending in upcomming storm or walking trough the NC pointlessly, try to explore seemingly ordinary places. So it is not that I "do not like" them.
But it is despite the generic filling, not because of it. Gamey things are not supporting the experience for me, but spoiling it (even though adding hours in process). Without it I would probably finish the game sooner but also replay it much often

 

[Rotal32]

The game does get a bit boring after finishing it.

 

[IskrasFemme]

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