Radovid in Loc Muinne

[KnightofPhoenix]

Radovid in Loc Muinne

I love the game's story and political intrigue a lot and think it's very well done and most of the points are linked together. But there are some events / acts that seem at first glance to be a bit problematic.

For instance. Radovid knew that Philippa was behind the assassinations before the conference and Geralt tells him about Sile's involvement if on Roche's path, after which he promises that he will punish her severely.

Yet why does he only react fully against the Lodge / Sile and the Council until during the conference? He potentially already knew that Sile was behind it, as were Philippa's associates. I can perhaps understand him not doing anything against the Council, because he had no proof that mages were involved as a whole. But Sile was right there and he must have known that all this was part of Philippa's plan.

It could be that the writers sort of didn't think about it. But I prefer to speculate otherwise.

- Radovid seemingly likes the appearance of being lawful. We see this when he says that the mages will be trialed and a court of law will decide who is traitorous (which apparently didn't happen. I think Radovid lost control of the situation and did not order a pogrom). And his ambition to annex Temeria is through lawful means. So it is possible that he did not want to act with an iron fist until Sile and / or the mages were publicly exposed.

- And / or, his dealing with Shilard go further than one would think. It is very possible that Radovid knew that Shilard was going to bring Letho to the conference and then when he exposes the mages, Radovid would act. Radovid does say that Nilfgaard owes him a favor. I speculated that he helped them deal with their mage problem, but this could be it as well. Radovid always wanted to deal with mages, this much is clear from TW1 and from his absorption of the Order of the Flaming Rose (created by Redanian intelligence to combat mages in the first place). Perhaps he saw the opportunity and planned with Shilard to eliminate them.
But if Shilard doesn't show up and only Triss does, he can deal with Sile but not with the Council as a whole as they were absolved of the crime. Radovid would look bad if he was overzealous.

What do you guys think?

Maybe the new added content / cutscenes can shed more light into this. The Loc Muinne conference is fascinating for all the politicking, backroom dealings, mysteries and backstabbing that occur.

EDIT: This could also bring a new meaning to Shilard's line in the Witcher's World about Radovid: "We can only hope that his errors do not prove to be grave ones."

 

[Kinley]

I think the devs just made Radovid wait until the conference so the scene can be more grandiose. I.E. The Order lining up on the stairs, everyone being present, and a different scene wouldn't be needed altogether.

From a lore point of view. Hmmm... It could be like this so Radovid can show off his power? Or he just likes to put on a show.

 

[Blothulfur]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, I think that's Shilard and Radovids relationship, they are working together to rid themselves of a common foe. It wouldn't surprise me if the ambassador believes that he is merely using the young and untried king, but has underestimated Radovids spy network and allies.

In one stroke at the council of kings Radovid has nullified the power of his greatest rival and broken the Lodge, lawfully making outlaws of some of the most powerful eminences in the north. He has no need to indulge in cloak and dagger when he has legal precedence and a confession sworn before all the rulers of the north. I also think he's quite enjoying the thought of pulling the rug from under the mages feet, and hopes that Sile will resist.

His Nilfgaardian favour may be owed by Leuvaarden from the first game, the merchants secret organisation is never specified and may have included the Redanians.

 

[GuyNwah]

I also think he wanted a show. Capturing Sile and killing her in prison, prudent as it may be, wouldn't make a statement. Exposing, humiliating, and condemning her or the entire Lodge before the assembly would send a message to anyone who would have sympathized with them or sought to challenge him.

 

[saesenthesis]

A very good point.Each time I replay the game and think about it,I renew my hopes that CDPR won't leave such a cliffhanger and that they'll start to work on a new game in the series.

!!!SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

More to the point,I think that he didn't act before the conference because 'a king can hardly be acused of breaking the peace treaties during a confrence' as Siegfried says on Roche's path,when he comes to escort you and Roche after slaying Dethmold.This makes sense,as mages are a party in the confrence just as much as Keadwen,Temeria,Redania and others are parties as kingdoms.
It's a matter of law as old as the world,mages were acting as host-like figures to the conference ( you see mage trainees in the vicinity of Loc Muine,meaning it's probably where they get educated ergo,it's their territory)
So Radovid couldn't attack another party before lawfully bringing his arguments and accusations before the esteemed council.
Furthermore,it's a good story element,as it helps build up tension within you,which is released at the council.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Great point guys! Agreed with all that is said.

Him saying "This will be no second Thanedd. Soon, everyone will learn what the Redanian king is capable of.", can refer to two things.

It not being like Thanned means it won't be an unlawful Coup d'Etat. And the second part implies that Radovid does want to put up a show to demonstrate his power.

And I agree with Bloth in that he might take pleasure in sweeping the rug from under their feet. He does the same thing with Henselt if Anais is secured. It was prudent, but I can see him enjoying their reaction when they realize all too late what happened.

His Nilfgaardian favour may be owed by Leuvaarden from the first game, the merchants secret organisation is never specified and may have included the Redanians.

Interesting, never thought about that.

 

[Blothulfur]

Good people of Redania, these foul temptresses have sought to slay your god given kings, to foist their evil tyrannous yoke upon your shoulders and make themselves the rulers of this world. They have consorted with terrorist non humans, traitors, mutated killers and who knows what others demonic powers spawned of the pit.

Let us never forget that good king Foltest, the hero of Brenna and poor king Demavend who fought so valiantly against the scoiatael were slain upon their order. Who would fall next were it not for our noble liege lord, Radovid Witchbane, who god be praised saw through their perfidy and exposed their ill doing for all to see at Loc Muinne.

And now we hear that foul black Nilfgaard marches to war against us once more, with the northern kingdoms weakened by these murderous whores. This is no coincidence, they are agents of the white flame dancing upon the grave of his foes, the emperor of Nilfgaard. They sought to take your lands from you and give it into elven hands as was done at Dol Blathanna by one of their perfidious number.

Rise up stout sons of Redania, drive out the non human and the witch, join the order of the flaming rose and light these dark times with the burning pyres of the wicked. For God, King Radovid and Grandmaster Siegfried, onward to victory.


That's how I see Radovid spinning his deeds to the common man, nothing like righteous zealotry to secure his powerbase.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

I can totally see that. Well done as usual Bloth!

I will be interested in seeing how Radovid reacts to the Nilfgaardian invasion. He probably didn't see it coming, at least so soon.

But I do believe that Radovid and Redania is the North's best hope.

 

[username_3519565]

I can totally see that. Well done as usual Bloth!

I will be interested in seeing how Radovid reacts to the Nilfgaardian invasion. He probably didn't see it coming, at least so soon.

But I do believe that Radovid and Redania is the North's best hope.

He certainly is in my canon playthrough after I made him the dominant power in the north.

 

[CostinRaz]

While I do agree with all that has been said in this thread so far there is something that seems to be ignored: That Sile was the mage adviser to the rulers of Kovir.

By putting on a grand show in front of those assembled, he not only destroys whatever credibility Sile has, he not only cements his reputation as a strong but just ruler in the eyes of the people, but he also make the royal of Kovir seem like imbeciles while he has dealt with Phillipa on his own.

Hell, Sile would be a great pretext for Redania to wage war on Kovir. If Radovid so desired, either way it's in his favor.

 

[saesenthesis]

Excellent argument Costin.
Only thing I disagree about is the war Redania would wage against Kovir,because I think a single sorceress isn't reason enough for something as drastic,especially while Nilfgaard is crossing the Yaruga.

 

[CostinRaz]

My point was to what Radovid might have thought of doing using the information he had on Sile, not on what he would do now that the war has begun.

Radovid doesn't need a strong reason, he just needs a pretext to justify his war from a lawful PoV.

 

[Aver]

My point was to what Radovid might have thought of doing using the information he had on Sile, not on what he would do now that the war has begun.

Radovid doesn't need a strong reason, he just needs a pretext to justify his war from a lawful PoV.

Kovir already crushed Redania once. They can do this again. And don't forget who sponsored last war against Nilfgaard - yeah Kovir. Army of Northern Kingdoms was paid from Kovir treasury.

 

[Oloroar]

My point was to what Radovid might have thought of doing using the information he had on Sile, not on what he would do now that the war has begun.

Radovid doesn't need a strong reason, he just needs a pretext to justify his war from a lawful PoV.

Do you think he will actually use the events at Loc Muinne, combined with the invasion by Nilfgaard, to advance his territory?

We know this has happened in the past where Kaedwen used the war with Nilfgaard to their advantage when they invaded upper Aedirn. By the looks of things, it seems that Nilfgaard and Radovid have some sort of relationship. Perhaps they arranged some sort of agreement? Maybe he does not fear Nilfgaard at all? If not, it would be the perfect opportunity to strike - Combining the "lawful" motives obtained from Loc Muinne with the chaos generated by the war.

Edit: The invasion does not have to be against Kovir. I would think his eyes would be set on the newly established Pontar State. They are still recovering from a war with Kaedwen, after all. It is also a region of great strategic importance.

 

[CostinRaz]

Kovir already crushed Redania once. They can do this again. And don't forget who sponsored last war against Nilfgaard - yeah Kovir. Army of Northern Kingdoms was paid from Kovir treasury.

Again I repeat myself. I am stating what Radovid calculations could have been before the war started, not what they are once the war has started.

Do you think he will actually use the events at Loc Muinne, combined with the invasion by Nilfgaard, to advance his territory?

We know this has happened in the past where Kaedwen used the war with Nilfgaard to their advantage when they invaded upper Aedirn. By the looks of things, it seems that Nilfgaard and Radovid have some sort of relationship. Perhaps they arranged some sort of agreement? Maybe he does not fear Nilfgaard at all? If not, it would be the perfect opportunity to strike - Combining the "lawful" motives obtained from Loc Muinne with the chaos generated by the war.

He'd be stupid to not expand his territory. With a perfect ending for Radovid ( Anais given to him as well as Henselt alive ) he and Kaedwen can divide the entire north between them. Radovid would be however very stupid to make a deal like that with Nilfgaard, cause if Nilfgaard takes Aedirn for instance Redania will be the loser in the long run.

As for what he would do if you sided with Iorveth...well he and Henselt will very likely not help Rivia, Aedirn and the Pontar. Saskia is VERY dangerous in what she represents, a hell lot more then Nilfgaard. Henselt and Radovid will probably focus on the Temerian front and then take over the Pontar once the war is won. If it won at all.

 

[dmcaldw]

I do think Radovid was similar to Letho ,there comes a time when cards are laid on the table scenario . He had the upper hand in this one . I do have to think you have to go back to the first game with him trying to strengthen relations with Temeria ,Adda lives he marries her . With both these kingdoms being in an uneasy alliance they were the strongest powers combined in the north .
I think though with armies crossing the Yaruga Radovid has to rethink his strategies . Call upon Natalis maybe .

 

[eglard]

For some reason I have the idea that magic doesn't work inside Loc Muine, or the place where the summit is held. I think that might be a reason to attack the lodge there. A few mages could ruin any plans and have a huge diplomatic leverage if they can turn you into cinders. But if the mages are in an are where spells do not work you can easily win diplomatics by swords.Radovid did have the law on his side, but I do not think it would matter if Shile could teleport to Kovir (or wherever she is from).

I think that Radovid would be lawful as long as it suits him. Depending what you do to Henselt he is the most powerful man in the north. He'll piss on law if it means it will quell the fire in a brothel

 

[saesenthesis]

Oh spells work,Sile summoned the dragon (Saskia) without much problems with spellcasting

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

I agree with Costin that making Kovir look foolish may have been part of his calculations. But I strongly doubt he was planning to conquer Kovir, even when he didn't know about the Nilfgaardian invasion. Radovid seems entirely focused on taking Temeria. It would be imprudent to try to take both Temeria and Kovir at the same time.

As for Radovid and Nilfgaard. It is still unclear what kind of relationship they have and why the empire owes the young king a "favor." Yes the precedent of allying with Nilfgaard to annex terrirtory is present in KAedwen. But let's not forget that Kaedwen aborted its invasion and turned on Nilfgaard, and was essential in the North's victory. I don't think Radovid or Henselt would be stupid enough to allow Nilfgaard to take out one of them while they defect. As Costin said, it's far more likely that Radovid and Henselt would divide up the North between them and collaborate in taking down Nilfgaard.

Not sure I agree that Radovid wouldn't help Saskia. Henselt certainly won't, but Radovid souns like the kind of guy who would reform the system. He expresses admiration to Saskia's conscripted militia and says that the knighthood risks annihilation. I don't think he would cling to knights and tradition for the sake of it, he seems too pragmatic for that. If anything, I think Radovid is going to learn from Saskia a bit, and be more inclusive to peasants and nonhumans (hopefully at least).

 

[Blothulfur]

Yes I think Radovid would absolutely love the idea of a professional army sworn to crown and country rather than fickle noblemen, who have one eye on his throne and one foot in the enemy camp all the while. I do believe that might be what he is trying to achieve with the flaming rose, a professional fighting force not beholden to any of his rivals, sheltering them after Alvin's uprising would be the first step on nationalising their order.