Radovid the Caricature?

[Vystral]

TW3 really managed to screw up Radovid's character for good.

Clever politician we established in TW1 and TW2? Fuck it... let's ruin him so that all those who found TW2 politics too complex (talking about idiots) can finally understand the new simplistic game...
That guy was the hero of TW2 Act 3, thanks CDPR for screwing up!

 

[BladeRunnerBlues]

et's ruin him so that all those who found TW2 politics too complex

Yup, probably the weakest returning character of all. While there are bad moments for others side characters as well (Dijkstra, Roche, etc.), Madovid is just poorly written through and through. TW3 is really nothing compared to the second part in storytelling complexity; the game sacrificed much of that attention to detail and subtlety in order to fill up its open world with points of interest and neat little unrelated side quests that add little value to the game's story, however.

 

[roomsky]

Personally I thought he was unlikeable already come Witcher 2, which reached a peak when we got to watch him personally scoop out Phillipa's Eyeselharts. I agree he should have had his madness explained a little better, but I do see a progression of: Young Pragmatic Ruler -> Pragmatic Ruler with psychotic tendencies -> Mad king.

 

[BladeRunnerBlues]

I agree he should have had his madness explained a little better, but I do see a progression of: Young Pragmatic Ruler -> Pragmatic Ruler with psychotic tendencies -> Mad king.

That could have been totally legit. Especially since he staged a massacre on one path of TW2, but his progression is indeed presented very badly. It doesn't help that the game does not care to factor in that choosing to save Triss in TW2 should have had at least some ramifications in connection with the witch hunts. Radovid could have easily remained a complex character whilst turning into a villain, had the writers not been sloppy.

 

[sv3672]

Personally I thought he was unlikeable already come Witcher 2, which reached a peak when we got to watch him personally scoop out Phillipa's Eyeselharts. I agree he should have had his madness explained a little better, but I do see a progression of: Young Pragmatic Ruler -> Pragmatic Ruler with psychotic tendencies -> Mad king.

Radovid already shows some signs of those tendencies which later lead to the witch hunt in Witcher 1, like in this conversation:

Spoiler

 

[jj284b]

Radovid is descendant of Bloody Falka (so no surprise him getting mad, as all her descendants did)... he is the man from her prophecy, she made at the stake - destroyer of the worlds from her blood... so his "new" direction is exactly the direction he should have... its perfectly with the book lore - Phillipa killed him, saving all, becoming Phillipa the Saint... again something already mentioned by Sapkowski in the books.. he also mentioned 1272 as a year of the Witch Hunt btw...

Witcher Wiki:
Falka was the oldest daughter of Redania's King Vridank and his first wife. Three years after the wedding of king Goidemar of Temeria and Riannon, Falka became the leader of a rebellion that grew notorious. During the rebellion, Falka apparently killed her father, two brothers and Queen Cerro. She also imprisoned then-pregnant Riannon.

While in prison, Riannon gave birth to a set of twins and then went mad. Around the same time, Falka also gave birth; she left her newborn into the hands of the deranged prisoner. Not long after, the rebellion was quelled and Falka was tried and condemned to die by burning on a stake; henceforth, people of Temeria and Redania have thrown a figure representing Falka on the bonfires during the Saovine celebrations. According to the legend, Falka cursed all the people present, and promised that they and their progeny would suffer in the hands of a child bearing her blood.

and they handled him well. If you chose to save Triss, it only changes single thing - he let the conclave be, but controlled them, while he hunted down all sorceresses of the Lodge. Later he just supported Witch hunters (originally, Witch Hunters pretended to be independent, you can read about them in a book - Sword for Witches - only admitting background support from Radovid) in their mission to hunt down all mages, even those under conclave (once they served their purpose and helped to eliminate those dangerous sorceresses like Shille de Tancerville (if alive) or Margueritta)... His goal was always wiping out all sorceresses... because he hated Phillipa and what she represented..

I think people idealized him because of W2, where he was presented as a leader with reason, completely forgetting he was behind whole Salamandra (giving them up only when Aldersberg started not listening his orders and following own agenda) and Civil war in Vizima initiated by Order of the Flaming Rose... he wanted to get rid of Foltest in W1 (and taking Temeria via Adda (if alive), so Letho and Lodge just practically made him a favor in W2 when they killed him off...

so, yeah, lore vise, standoff between him and Phillipa was supposed to happen, as it is mentioned in Sapkowski books. So whenever you participated on his murder, or not, he ends up being dead.. only difference is how much more suffering on other people he is capable inflicting - with winning the war against Nilfgaard, he would cause a lot more damage, yet still being killed by Phillipa in the end... hmm, now that im thinking about it, maybe that is actually the cannon ending.. otherwise, Phillipa would not be called the Saint, if she killed him before he started to wiping out others... ordinary folks would not realize how big favor Phillipa did for them by killing him.... (seems like he will live in my next play-through just for a heck of it - Emreis is supposed to be replaced by Voorhis anyway)

(sorry for all those edits.. it took time to sum up all i had in my mind )

 

[Zyvik]

Radovid is descendant of Bloody Falka (so no surprise him getting mad, as all her descendants did)... he is the man from her prophecy, she made at the stake - destroyer of the worlds from her blood... so his "new" direction is exactly the direction he should have... its perfectly with the book lore - Phillipa killed him, saving all, becoming Phillipa the Saint... again something already mentioned by Sapkowski in the books.. he also mentioned 1272 as a year of the Witch Hunt btw...



and they handled him well. If you chose to save Triss, it only changes single thing - he let the conclave be, but controlled them, while he hunted down all sorceresses of the Lodge. Later he just supported Witch hunters (originally, Witch Hunters pretended to be independent, you can read about them in a book - Sword for Witches - only admitting background support from Radovid) in their mission to hunt down all mages, even those under conclave (once they served their purpose and helped to eliminate those dangerous sorceresses like Shille de Tancerville (if alive) or Margueritta)... His goal was always wiping out all sorceresses... because he hated Phillipa and what she represented..

I think people idealized him because of W2, where he was presented as a leader with reason, completely forgetting he was behind whole Salamandra (giving them up only when Aldersberg started not listening his orders and following own agenda) and Civil war in Vizima initiated by Order of the Flaming Rose... he wanted to get rid of Foltest in W1 (and taking Temeria via Adda (if alive), so Letho and Lodge just practically made him a favor in W2 when they killed him off...

so, yeah, lore vise, standoff between him and Phillipa was supposed to happen, as it is mentioned in Sapkowski books. So whenever you participated on his murder, or not, he ends up being dead.. only difference is how much more suffering on other people he is capable inflicting - with winning the war against Nilfgaard, he would cause a lot more damage, yet still being killed by Phillipa in the end... hmm, now that im thinking about it, maybe that is actually the cannon ending.. otherwise, Phillipa would not be called the Saint, if she killed him before he started to wiping out others... ordinary folks would not realize how big favor Phillipa did for them by killing him.... (seems like he will live in my next play-through just for a heck of it - Emreis is supposed to be replaced by Voorhis anyway)

(sorry for all those edits.. it took time to sum up all i had in my mind )

It's a great theory, of course, but it definitely wasn't the intent of the developers. Otherwise, the game would've either hinted at or outright told us that Radovid was cursed. So yeah, it's a great headcanon, but not the game canon unfortunately.

 

[jj284b]

It's a great theory, of course, but it definitely wasn't the intent of the developers. Otherwise, the game would've either hinted at or outright told us that Radovid was cursed. So yeah, it's a great headcanon, but not the game canon unfortunately.

I just linked things from books (i read recently so still fresh) with things from all games i remembered. Anyway i don't think he was cursed - he was merely a man from Falka's bloodline she just predicted as somebody who will punish those Temerians and Redanians for her death (and for celebrating it). Sapkowski specifically mention that Falka's child was thought to be dead, but nobody could confirm which of those three kids (two were Riannon's) was Falka's child.. oh, and btw, Falka hated Mages as well..

 

[Zyvik]

I just linked things from books (i read recently so still fresh) with things from all games i remembered. Anyway i don't think he was cursed - he was merely a man from Falka's bloodline she just predicted as somebody who will punish those Temerians and Redanians for her death (and for celebrating it). Sapkowski specifically mention that Falka's child was thought to be dead, but nobody could confirm which of those three kids (two were Riannon's) was Falka's child..

By "cursed", I meant cursed by being borned of Falka's blood.

 

[jj284b]

seems im not the only one with this theory:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/archive/index.php/t-55054.html

When the fire was lit at the foot of the criminal's pyre and the flames began to engulf her, she began to hurl abuse at the knights, barons, sorcerers and lord councillors gathered in the square; using such words that terror seized them all. Although at first only damp logs were placed on the pyre, in order that the she-devil would not perish quickly and would know the full agony of fire, now came the order to throw on more dry sticks and put an end to the torture as quickly as possible. However, a veritable demon had entered the accursed one; for although she was already sizzling well, she uttered no cries of anguish, but instead began to hurl even more awful abuse. 'An avenger will be born of my blood,' she cried. 'From my tainted Elder Blood will be born the avenger of the nations and of the world! He will avenge my torment! Death, death and vengeance to all of you and your kin!' Only this much was she able to cry out before the flame consumed her. Thus perished Falka; such was her punishment for spilling innocent blood.
Roderick de Novembre, The History of the World, Volume II

and

The point is - in the veins of Ciri and their ancestors does not flow a single one drop of Falka's blood. But if, who will be this "Avenger" from her curse?

The answer is simple. Falka's blood is the blood of Redanian dynasty. The blood of Sambuk, Dambor the Black and Vestibor the Proud. The blood of Radovids and Vizimirs.
The blood of Radovid the Stern. The blood of the man who is actually an ultimate Avenger from her curse. The man who brought death and vengeance to offspring of Falka's persecutors - mages and Redanian aristocracy. The man who spreaded fire and blood in Northern Kingdoms as Falka did hundred years ago.

the whole confusion about Elder blood is quite simple - Falka mentioned it, (maybe just to mock the whole existence of Lara Doreen futher), while Illithine prophecy also was talking about Elder Blood... so ordinary people put those things together and expected it to be a single person...

Plus the whole point of Redanian Royal Blood being Falka's blood is quite valid point.. curse was not necessarily about her direct descendant.. just somebody from her bloodline, and Radovid is exactly such a person.

 

[BladeRunnerBlues]

I just linked things from books (i read recently so still fresh) with things from all games i remembered. Anyway i don't think he was cursed - he was merely a man from Falka's bloodline she just predicted as somebody who will punish those Temerians and Redanians for her death (and for celebrating it). Sapkowski specifically mention that Falka's child was thought to be dead, but nobody could confirm which of those three kids (two were Riannon's) was Falka's child.. oh, and btw, Falka hated Mages as well..

I think you're giving the writers too much credit. Cursed bloodlines or not, the dialogue involving Radovid is just incredibly lazy and cliched, about as bad as Eredin, with more lines. At least that was my major beef with his portrayal in The Witcher 3. In the second game he was presented as a multi-layered ambitious bastard and good manipulator, in the third one as a raving idiot.
If the bloodline theory is true, it could have been a half-decent way of explaining this shift, but they didn't really do anything sensible with Rad the Mad's character in the entire game.

 

[jj284b]

Eredin being prick is also established by the Sapkowski books.. he was never a "thinker" actually.. originally just a military commander of elite cavalry force of Aen Elle, he managed to kill his own king just to usurp the throne.. yet he got outwitted and defeated in duel by 16years old Ciri... so eventually, why would Geralt struggle with him so much?

I think writers made all those background relations to the books for those who read them, and can find them.

 

[BladeRunnerBlues]

I think writers made all those background relations to the books for those who read them, and can find them.

Pricks can be very well-written as well and The Wild Hunt does not really accomplish that. CDPR itself said that they did not handle Eredin's character well in the main game. Plus pointing to the books does not really alleviate any of the game's shortcomings, nor does explaining half the main story (background of the White Frost and Wild Hunt) through character journals. I think they simply dropped the ball with both Radovid and the main antagonist. If you look at the stunt that Dijkstra pulls at the end of the horrible "Reason of State" quest, it is not hard to imagine that the game's writers made severe missteps in devising the plot.

 

[SMiki55]

Who has control over the Witch Hunters?
Radovid? The eternal fire? Hemmelfart?

It is not such an organised group like the Order from previous games. It have not one leader, king or master - its members just travel around the North and "clean" it from mages, pagans, heretics etc.

@jj284b Totally wrong theory about Philippa. She was Martyr Saint. You do not become Martyr Saint via killing someone; you become Martyr Saint via permitting someone to kill you. Phil's tortures and death were described in the "Lady of the Lake" novel.

 

[jj284b]

It is not such an organised group like the Order from previous games. It have not one leader, king or master - its members just travel around the North and "clean" it from mages, pagans, heretics etc.

@jj284b Totally wrong theory about Philippa. She was Martyr Saint. You do not become Martyr Saint via killing someone; you become Martyr Saint via permitting someone to kill you. Phil's tortures and death were described in the "Lady of the Lake" novel.

really? strange i dont remember reading about her torture, just the title the Saint.. ill re-read that part again

 

[Zyvik]

really? strange i dont remember reading about her torture, just the title the Saint.. ill re-read that part again

Here it is:
"...As well as many of the other faithful, St. Philippa was also besmirched with betraying the Kingdom, inducing riots and plotting a coup. Willemer, a heretic and sectarian, unlawfully appointed himself the title of archpriest, and ordered St. Philippa to be thrown into a dark dungeon, and to plague her with cold and hunger, until she confessed to her sins of which she was accused and repented. Also various instruments of torture were used to try and break her spirit. But St. Philippa with distain, spit in his face and accused him of sodomy. The heretic had her disrobed and whipped her with barbed wire and placed sharp splinters under her nails. While unceasingly preaching about his faith and denouncing the Goddess. But St. Philippa laughed at him and recommended to him to heal his sick mind. Willemer then gave the order to have her taken to the rack and stretched, while tearing her body with sharp hooks and burning her with candles. Although thus tormented, St. Philippa showed no weakness in body and indeed her resistance and endurance seemed almost superhuman. The executioner’s arms went limp and with fear they retreated from her. Then the filthy heretic, Willemer, began to threaten them and told them to continue the torment. They burned St. Philippa with red hot irons, pulled her limbs out of their joints and pulled at her breasts with blacksmith tongs. And although she passed away from this torment, she confessed nothing.
The shameless heretic Willemer, we read in the books of our holy fathers, later suffered for this punishment and it was that lice and worms began to eat him alive, his entrails rotted away and he died miserably. His carcass carried with it a foul stench and nobody wanted to bury him, and so he was dropped in a swamp.For the suffering and death of St. Philippa the eternal memory of a martyr’s crown rightfully belongs. Let us give the Great Mother Goddess praise for her lessons and teachings. Amen.
The life of St. Philippa, martyr of Mons Calvus,
From the Book of Martyrs compiled in the Breviary of Tretogor,
For the contemplation of the holy fathers and mothers."

 

[jj284b]

hmm, interesting.. really don't remember reading that part before so, lore wise, Radovid's death plays no role then, she could kill him as in game and still getting captured and tortured to death later..