It is a very tough ordeal and one which I find myself in a stalemate with.
Philippa supports an egalitarian solution to the nonhuman problem in the North, which she wants to unite under Saskia's banner. However, that is simply on the surface of it and the affirmation of power to Saskia is merely a symbolic gesture. The head of state would be secretly controlled by her (and partially by the Lodge), in which she would have great influence over Northern state actors in favor of an international elite group that would secretly rule through transnational law.
Radovid in turn--through the alliances of states and incorporation of the Cult of Eternal Fire as a possible professional standing army--is creating the foundation of a modern centralized state, with him believing a sole person is needed to monopolize power to achieve true order in the North. While Radovid can be viewed as the neo-realist, believing that centralized states are the primary actors in the international scene, and often appearing acting within the confines of the law, he is much the very picture of an absolutist ruler.
So I can't really say for sure for now, so I will wait for how events unfold in TW3. And if anyone wants to read and haven't already, I'd recommend KnighofPhoenix's very thorough blog which really captures the political events and ideals between Philippa and Radovid.
Philippa supports an egalitarian solution to the nonhuman problem in the North, which she wants to unite under Saskia's banner. However, that is simply on the surface of it and the affirmation of power to Saskia is merely a symbolic gesture. The head of state would be secretly controlled by her (and partially by the Lodge), in which she would have great influence over Northern state actors in favor of an international elite group that would secretly rule through transnational law.
Radovid in turn--through the alliances of states and incorporation of the Cult of Eternal Fire as a possible professional standing army--is creating the foundation of a modern centralized state, with him believing a sole person is needed to monopolize power to achieve true order in the North. While Radovid can be viewed as the neo-realist, believing that centralized states are the primary actors in the international scene, and often appearing acting within the confines of the law, he is much the very picture of an absolutist ruler.
So I can't really say for sure for now, so I will wait for how events unfold in TW3. And if anyone wants to read and haven't already, I'd recommend KnighofPhoenix's very thorough blog which really captures the political events and ideals between Philippa and Radovid.
To be honest I don't see Philippa or the Lodge as being that important now, no other mages would follow her as they wouldn't before, which is one reason why she founded the Lodge I believe. She's not a leader and never has been, she knows this, and there's just not that many of the ladies left.
The other mages will still remain a power and an asset, and worth recruiting for their power and numbers, and I wouldn't be surprised if Carduin emerges as a leader in that situation.
Then again i'd never discount Philippa, that would be bloody foolish.
The other mages will still remain a power and an asset, and worth recruiting for their power and numbers, and I wouldn't be surprised if Carduin emerges as a leader in that situation.
Then again i'd never discount Philippa, that would be bloody foolish.
Right now it is all just a possibility. They both have certain visions for the North's future, but I find it hard to bet on any of them. Radovid's approach to stability being a complete elimination of one variable (the mages) and thus reducing a number of potential problems makes sense, but only if the North can survive the next invasion. Carduin was ready to play ball, so there was no need to start the massacres.The Knights turned onto Foltest, and were exiled from Temeria. Right now they obey Radovid, but could he really control them? Roche agrees to free Anais, but there is no real incentive to give her to Temeria. I hate to sound like Saren on the Council 
, but I am not impressed with Radovid. We'll see how the events will develop in TW3.
, but I am not impressed with Radovid. We'll see how the events will develop in TW3.Anything is possible, but I wouldn't count either Philippa or the Lodge out of the game yet. While true that they suffered a critical blow in Loc Muinne, many of the Lodge members are still alive and Philippa is nothing but persistent and can still have Saskia in possession.
The problem with Philippa is that she is too arrogant and her hunger for power can cloud her judgement at times considering she is too proud and ambitious to share. She is a powerful political player and a capable ruler, but she knows that a rule under her name would never work, hence why she has / wants Saskia as more of the figurehead.
The problem with Philippa is that she is too arrogant and her hunger for power can cloud her judgement at times considering she is too proud and ambitious to share. She is a powerful political player and a capable ruler, but she knows that a rule under her name would never work, hence why she has / wants Saskia as more of the figurehead.
I hate Phillipa
Have you read the books? She is an insensitive bitch. Like if I had the option of killing her in the Wicher 3 I would take it in a heart beat.
Have you read the books? She is an insensitive bitch. Like if I had the option of killing her in the Wicher 3 I would take it in a heart beat.
In my version for what i think Philippa have 3 way in TW3 .
1 is remain in vergen as a royal advisor with saskia ( as her puppet ) .
2 she may fleeing to dol blathanna ,to find francesca and asking her for help ,or maybe sile can help her ( if WE let her survive.) .
( the first 2 one is depend our save game , i guess )
3 Well,,,, i was thinking . maybe philippa has already in the arm of her former lover by now , huh... it well be fun if Djikstra returns is well be interesting ... . and who know he may even sleep with her again to maintain the situation ,
( well to be honest . that is what i wanting to see in TW3 lol )
1 is remain in vergen as a royal advisor with saskia ( as her puppet ) .
2 she may fleeing to dol blathanna ,to find francesca and asking her for help ,or maybe sile can help her ( if WE let her survive.) .
( the first 2 one is depend our save game , i guess )
3 Well,,,, i was thinking . maybe philippa has already in the arm of her former lover by now , huh... it well be fun if Djikstra returns is well be interesting ... . and who know he may even sleep with her again to maintain the situation ,
( well to be honest . that is what i wanting to see in TW3 lol )
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:comeatmebro:
Yes, also my Geralt will risk her life for her. If I would not know how W2 ends, I would be very confused and decission Triss/Philippa would gave me a solid headache - the most racional choice for me would be to release her (or help her somehow - I got sword and valuable hostage, so there would be chance to free her quickly, she also has dragon) and imediatelly run to save Triss (there is no way for me to risk also her life).
In W3, if I will have opportunity (I really hope I will .. W2 disappointed me a little at this point), she will be one of my best allies. Maybe she wants power, but what: Who doesn't? And there is no chance I would give (help to gain) power to someone else but sorceress. Some racist fanatic orders and kings full of complexes included
I think "Give a half of REDpoint" would be useful on this board
.. I partly agree.Yes, I have - to be specific more than five times
She is one of few persons who showed some honour - especially if you take it from Geralt's point of view.
If I take whole story - many kings wanted him to die, even if he saved their life (Mewe, Emhyr, Henselt), not so many people cared what will happen with him. But Philippa - when she stopped him, because she had important plans, which he wanted to ruin by his acts, she didn't kill him - she cared about him and about his wound and when he shouted at her and stand against her, she took care about his wounds after that. She also gave him promise (which she holded - at least she tried to do that and when she couldn't she compensated that by another way. Also when he was in Touissant, she (probably plan of Lodge) behaved very gently to him again. So this behaviour can't be called as bad, she had her important plans, which maybe some readers could not understand, but future of whole world is objectively more important than goals of Geralt.
Reader reads mainly about Geralt/Yennefer/Ciri story and he logicly side with them. But she behaved very rationally, but also gently.
Reader reads mainly about Geralt/Yennefer/Ciri story and he logicly side with them. But she behaved very rationally, but also gently.
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Radovid isn't trying to eliminate the Mages, he destroys the Lodge and ends any chance of them being a political power in the north, the Nilfgaardian inspired massacre is just a side effect and one that all the powerful Mages avoid as Roche or Iorveth tell you when returning to Loc Muinne. The fact that Radovid was conspiring with Carduin points to the fact that they were both content with what would happen at Loc Muinne, the Mage and his faction gain power, the Lodge is destroyed and the hopes of a Conclave are dashed. Radovid simply took control of a faction of the Mages, as control is needed, the Lodge's silly destruction of Aedirn's military potential while Nilfgaard is waiting in the south is a clear indication of this. They handed the country over to the Black One's just as much as Letho did.Right now it is all just a possibility. They both have certain visions for the North's future, but I find it hard to bet on any of them. Radovid's approach to stability being a complete elimination of one variable (the mages) and thus reducing a number of potential problems makes sense, but only if the North can survive the next invasion. Carduin was ready to play ball, so there was no need to start the massacres.The Knights turned onto Foltest, and were exiled from Temeria. Right now they obey Radovid, but could he really control them? Roche agrees to free Anais, but there is no real incentive to give her to Temeria. I hate to sound like Saren on the Council
To control the Order I believe require a more indepth explanation which i'll split into points below.
1. Have a hand in creating them: Redanian intelligence created and supposedly sponsored the Order for a very specific purpose, as a counter weight to the Mages, and presumably there are still agents within the Order that report directly to the Redanians. Thus we have an "in" with them.
2. Destroy their leadership: This is simple, Jacques must be slain and with a few words in Foltest's ear in Vizima and the help of a well payed Witcher, Radovid accomplishes this. This was obviously one of the reasons why he was in Temeria in the first game, uniting the two countries is a long term goal, securing his own throne is an immediate one, and a well trained army of Zealots helps immensely.
3. Save them: Jacque DeAldersburg attempted a coup, and his men are as guilty as him, they have sinned against a divinely appointed monarch and commited blackest treason. With their messianic leader slain and cold reality setting in they are looking at an evetual dissolution of their Order and to dancing the gallows jig. In steps Radovid to take them off Foltest's hand, give them a chance at redemption, stop any further bloodshed and save the day. Very bloody smart.
4. Replace the Brass: Radovid places his own men in charge, promotes those who are allready in service to the Redanian intelligence service and basically makes it his own organisation. If Siegfried is in charge this will still happen but Radovid will trust the Knight, who wouldn't? Siegfried for all of his valiance and honour is a straight forward man, and we know that Radovid also plays square with his allies, he talks straight as he does with the Witcher and Roche, and keeps his word. I get the feeling Siegfried will thrive under such a man.
5. Maintain the image: Radovid will have to act as the straight forward, plain speaking, open and honest man he's acted as in both games, and pursue the righteous causes that the Order espouses. The elimination of the Lodge is just such a righteous action, these are mass murderers and king slayers, they typify all that the peasantry and the nobility fear that Mages may become and rooting them out and punishing them is a holy duty. Thus through his actions Radovid confirms himself as a rightful ruler and a truly divinely appointed monarch when he brings the Order to Loc Muinne.
6. Support their religion: This we have yet to see, whether the Eternal Flame has flourished in Redania, we'll probably see when in Novigrad one way or the other.
Personally i'm impressed both with Radovid's actions towards Geralt, his plans, his mastery of the game and his daring. The last more than anything, a good king must seize the day and roll the dice, take the chances and trust to his actions rather than sit and do nothing when action is called for, because such an idler will be soon overtaken by events and deposed. From his introduction in Vizima to the denouement of Assassins of Kings Radovid has shown a clear and detrmined pursuit of his goals, and been incredibly pro-active in securing them. He had to destroy the Lodge, Philippa and her ladies proved that when they slew his father, and cemented it with their largely successful coup in Aedirn. His only blind spot may be in working with Nilfgaard, but so far that has not turned against him, only aided his cause.
I'm extremely interested in what happens come the third game, and what role Radovid plays in it. I can't seem to remember who Saren is, what council did he serve on in Redania, was he part of Philippa and Djikstra's?
About the Order - we'll see. About the mages:
Carduin was pushing for the Council, and, as I understand, he would become a head of it. In case Letho testifies, Radovid has him arrested, and Carduin wisely complies. I don't think Carduin dropping on his knees, while the knights were ready to shoot him, was agreed upon. Obviously, the knights could have stopped the massacre, but, instead they actively participated in it. So either they disobeyed Radovid, or (much more probable) he allowed/ordered them to do it. It is rather obvious that the massacre was Radovid' doing , "his handiwork". For me it looks like Radovid simply used Letho's testimony as an excuse to start North-wide mage-hunts, but still appear law-abiding. Most of the powerful and famous mages managed to flee, the rest was massacred. None of it sounds like any agreement with Carduin. They got a second Thanedd, in exact way. So it was not a "control" ending, it was "destruction".
If Triss testifies, even though she accuses only Sile, Radovid and the knights order to hunt the entire Lodge. I wouldn't say it is according to the law. Sure, Shilard gave him the list, and, you know, Shilard is such an open and sincere guy who has the North's best interests at heart, that Radovid couldn't help but believed him, right? He did not get a good excuse to start the massacre, and that's why mages were spared. Council and Conclave are established, but, as they show in the epilogue, already at odds with Radovid.
If there is a massacre, I doubt any of the fleeing mages will agree to cooperate with Radovid, and see a massacre as a political maneuver. Radovid turned them against him, plain and simple. He got a new group of enemies, who before the massacre were ready to cooperate. His best bet is to find and kill them all before some guy throws a freezing bomb at him, and there will be no mage to shield him.
If the Council is created, epilogue shows that Radovid's management style is not very popular. He is not a guy who compromises and negotiates, and no ruler can keep peace and order only by barking orders and hitting people over their heads. He sure is Radovid the Stern, but not Radovid the Wise.
I wonder about TW3 in this regard, and what path (Council or no council) CDPR will pick as a default option.
OT: ME Trilogy is so goofy that it should become an example of how the devs should not do settings and choices/consequences part of a story. After ME2-3 I really started to miss Saren.
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Got to disagree i'm afraid, the fact that Carduin was allready conspiring with Radovid before the talks and knew that he was going to move against the Lodge and any who supported them clearly points to the fact that he was in on it. The fact that Carduin was leading the talks along with Sile points to his seniority and importance among his brethren, thus Radovid always ready with a plan most likely has a substantial segment of the Mage community in his pocket. A segment who are elated at the lack of competition and royal sponsorship, they damn their brethren to secure their own positions and not be tarred with the same brush as the kingslayers, which is all too Witcher-ish.
The Nilfgaardian provoked massacre, yes Radovid let his hounds off the leash, he had to as i've outlined above they need such displays to assure their loyalty and to remind the rest of the Mages that they may be the great Grey Eminences of the setting but they are not untouchable. An army is made to be used. Radovid successfully cows those against him, destroys the weak and the Lodge, and makes the faction that serve him all the more valuable and contained. He's not so stupid as go without Mage protection, that would be the sign of underestimating his opponents, and that was the Lodge weakness not his. Carduin I fully expect to make an appearance in the Wild Hunt, and be holding the reins of great power in Redania.
Edit: Sorry Chewin, never thought that much of that bloke. Furthermore i've got to agree, I can't wait for the resolution of this and so many more issues in the third game, if they are revealed, or merely hinted at. Until then speculation and arguments ahoy!
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Carduin was against the Lodge, sure. But witch-hunts throughout the North? Do you really believe that any mage in a sane mind would even consider to work and support Radovid, while his less-powerful brethren is burned at the stake all throughout the North? They managed to flee, and I hope they flee far enough. The law was broken in the most sadistic way, and the people got burned just because they belonged to a certain group, not because of any personal guilt. Sure he reminded them that he can kill them all without any legal grounds, but he does not have a hope in hell to control them anymore.
Another point - to kill off all low-level mages is akin to killing off all mine workers, and leaving only the best blackmiths artisans. What would they do without a bunch of people mining stuff, and providing materials for them? The same will be with the mages. Magic created a kind of economy, and even the most powerful relied on the materials and ingredients only obtained on the market. North-wide massacres destroyed the basis of magic economy. Sure, those who survived can sling fireballs, but they often rely on the devices, amulets, and such. All of it is gone. Even most powerful suffer the destruction of a system, and without a system they are pretty much useless.
Another point - to kill off all low-level mages is akin to killing off all mine workers, and leaving only the best blackmiths artisans. What would they do without a bunch of people mining stuff, and providing materials for them? The same will be with the mages. Magic created a kind of economy, and even the most powerful relied on the materials and ingredients only obtained on the market. North-wide massacres destroyed the basis of magic economy. Sure, those who survived can sling fireballs, but they often rely on the devices, amulets, and such. All of it is gone. Even most powerful suffer the destruction of a system, and without a system they are pretty much useless.
The law is what Radovid and his peers say it is, his cause is just in the eyes of the people who hate Mages anyway and certainly just to the ones in power who might have suffered at the Lodge's hands and who the Sorceresses tried to slay with their Dragon. Yes the Mages who have always been jealous of their art and power will seek to enrich and protect themselves at the cost of their brethren, happens in the real world just as much as in the Witcher's one. There are always more who can be trained.
Whereas before they were making kings and princes dance on their strings, Radovid has turned the tables and is now manipulating them, it's all cyclic. Some will stand against him, others will side with teh victor as they always do. My Geralt will avoid both if possible, and side with Radovid if forced because the king didn't try to kill him like the Lodge did.
Edit: Anyway off out for a pint.
Whereas before they were making kings and princes dance on their strings, Radovid has turned the tables and is now manipulating them, it's all cyclic. Some will stand against him, others will side with teh victor as they always do. My Geralt will avoid both if possible, and side with Radovid if forced because the king didn't try to kill him like the Lodge did.
Edit: Anyway off out for a pint.
I meant her lack of sympathy to Yenefer and her plans to use Ciri, for example, if she had it her way, Ciri would have never seen Geralt again. You are right about her having a soft spot for Geralt though.:comeatmebro:
Yes, I have - to be specific more than five times
She is one of few persons who showed some honour - especially if you take it from Geralt's point of view.If you want to kill her, I suppose you will want to kill all the people who behaved to Geralt same way or worse. Good luck with that - you will have really long list. But I still cannot find the any reason for that since she (as far as I know) never wanted to kill Geralt.If I take whole story - many kings wanted him to die, even if he saved their life (Mewe, Emhyr, Henselt), not so many people cared what will happen with him. But Philippa - when she stopped him, because she had important plans, which he wanted to ruin by his acts, she didn't kill him - she cared about him and about his wound and when he shouted at her and stand against her, she took care about his wounds after that. She also gave him promise (which she holded - at least she tried to do that and when she couldn't she compensated that by another way. Also when he was in Touissant, she (probably plan of Lodge) behaved very gently to him again. So this behaviour can't be called as bad, she had her important plans, which maybe some readers could not understand, but future of whole world is objectively more important than goals of Geralt.
Reader reads mainly about Geralt/Yennefer/Ciri story and he logicly side with them. But she behaved very rationally, but also gently.
Well .. I understand she doesn't have to be pleasant for someone and I don't want to impose my opinion on you.
"Lack of sympathy" - you are right about that, but on the highest places is not much space for some "symphaties". You read the book and you played games, so you probably know how other important persons pay attention for some emotions etc. But even there she was quite kind in the end (fight with Geralt, her vote,..)
Just like about Ciri ..
If we look on other sides - you would probably kill also Emhyr and other kings - Philippa had her plans, that is true, Sheala was very strict, that is also true, but Yennefer herself chose for her Arethusa school, where this would be just everyday occurrence (even when she knew how difficult and cruel life could there be). I know they also wanted to use her and I also don't like that, but they can't just let her (as one of the most powerful sorceress and possibly very important person for whole world) go.
And one more (and probably the most important) point about it - even Ciri considered if she joins Lodge, she wasn't so angry (maybe just about that prince), she said she will explain Geralt, where is difference between those plans and plans of others (Vilgefortz) and when she was leaving with Yennefer and Geralt (in the end), she sent apologies to Lodge by Triss (nothing like f**k off - I am leaving, you won't get me, but she cared if they will understand her reasons and she apologized for that).
About her separation from Geralt - it just had to be like that - as I said, Yennefer wanted to send her to school of mages, so she would be separated the same way. After school she would probably have chance to see him again. Nobody would order her where to go if she would be member of the Lodge.
PS: Philippa gave her her vote
And one more (and probably the most important) point about it - even Ciri considered if she joins Lodge, she wasn't so angry (maybe just about that prince), she said she will explain Geralt, where is difference between those plans and plans of others (Vilgefortz) and when she was leaving with Yennefer and Geralt (in the end), she sent apologies to Lodge by Triss (nothing like f**k off - I am leaving, you won't get me, but she cared if they will understand her reasons and she apologized for that).
About her separation from Geralt - it just had to be like that - as I said, Yennefer wanted to send her to school of mages, so she would be separated the same way. After school she would probably have chance to see him again. Nobody would order her where to go if she would be member of the Lodge.
PS: Philippa gave her her vote
..
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