Raining Cats and Dogs

[GuyNwah]

Raining Cats and Dogs

It's "raining cats and dogs" in California today, and Corylea rightly asked for debates on cats vs. dogs to be moved out of Kindo's and Delightful McCoy's thread, so here is a thread for your love and understanding of cats and dogs.

My parents have always been "cat people" and just don't relate well to dogs. They aren't sure what to make of dogs' demands for attention. We had a tough old Havana Brown Siamese who lived in the back yard and ate lizards and mice. Came in when he felt like it, which wasn't too often, though he was a sweetie when he did.

Of course, their children all grew up and married "dog people". Our dog is a sweet old pit bull who must be part cat, because she's going on "nine lives". She was taken from an abusive owner, with cigarette burns on her. Bit out her stitches after being spayed. Jumped off a second story landing, hit a bookcase on the way down, and demolished it. Survived cancer, being hit by a car, and the worst case of bladder stones our vet ever saw. She's scared of the dark, and unhappy unless someone's with her all the time now. Can't exactly blame her for that.

We live in coyote country. Cats and small dogs, sadly, just disappear rather often. If we had a cat, it would have to be an indoor cat, because too many of our neighbors' cats have become breakfast for the coyotes.

 

[Blothulfur]

I'm a dog man, grew up with an english mastiff (Banner) as our house dog and a number of working dogs trained for the farm and the rifle. I admire a dogs unswerving loyalty, intelligence and sociability. To me a home is empty without a hound or two at your feet.

We had a cat, a one eyed ratter (Sam). But its small brains and inability to comprehend basic instruction, left me thinking of it as just one step up from vermin. No offence to cat lovers.

 

[Guest 2091327]

I'm a cat person and always will be. They're cute and cuddly and more of a 'pet' than dogs. Dogs are more of a protector than a cat in my experience, and that's not what I'm looking for in a pet (nor something I need). But it's apples and oranges. Some prefer dogs, others cats, and rarely do people like both. It has probably more to do with what type of person you are, and what you were used with as a kid.

On the independence and "cats are always wild" debate though, there is the saying "Herding cats". Ever tried that?

 

[chlong7]

I grew up with both and adore both, especially the independent ones who may generally like people but aren't terribly interested in any mere human's view of how the world works. Ah, farm cats and rat terriers, what could be better?

@Guy N'Wah
Awwwww.....

 

[n4meless1]

My White Shepherd says HI!



The amount of love he has for us is truly incredible. And he's unbelievably smart..

So, yeah.. dogs 4Life!!

 

[luc0s]

People assume dogs are even capable of feeling love. I think it's more likely that dogs act loyal to you because you feed them and threat them well. They need you and they know it. They see you as a pack leader, an alpha dog. They know you, as the alpha, will take care of your pack (your family and your dog). That's why they try to stay on your good side. But if a dog smells you're weak of if it thinks you're incapable of being a good pack leader, it's only a matter of time before the dog will challenge your leadership. All of the sudden, the nice dog is not so nice anymore. He'll be agressive and then you realize your dog never truly loved you, he only follow you because he acknowledged you as his leader.

 

[Oloroar]

There's just not much you can do with a cat. When I have a pet, I want to play around with it, not watch it laze around my house. I think it's mostly to do with what Blothulfur said, they just lack the mental capacity to do the more advanced things that a dog could do. A dog's size also helps - back when I had my labrador, and he did something he shouldn't have done, I would just tackle the bastard and get into a dog fight with him!

Unfortunately, dogs do need more room than a cat (the larger breeds anyway), and they do require a lot of attention. That's why I had to give mine up - and got a cockatiel instead. They are still more fun than cats. She can learn tricks and even learn to hum tunes, like imperial march!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LUgIYKtvFA[/media]
I wish mine could do that .

@Luc0s
Yes, yes...that clearly explains why there have been many cases where the dog would literally starve itself to death after the loss of it's master - because it respects the long gone "pack leader".

I especially love that part about "challenging" the owner. One would think all those guide dogs would be aggressive like you suggested, since their master is completely dependent on them - and hence "weak".

Seriously, get off it.

 

[GuyNwah]

People assume dogs are even capable of feeling love. I think it's more likely that dogs act loyal to you because you feed them and threat them well. They need you and they know it. They see you as a pack leader, an alpha dog. They know you, as the alpha, will take care of your pack (your family and your dog). That's why they try to stay on your good side. But if a dog smells you're weak of if it thinks you're incapable of being a good pack leader, it's only a matter of time before the dog will challenge your leadership. All of the sudden, the nice dog is not so nice anymore. He'll be agressive and then you realize your dog never truly loved you, he only follow you because he acknowledged you as his leader.

That's mostly not so. It might be true if dogs were still wolves, but any tendency to turn on the pack leader has long ago been bred out of domestic dogs. Even the most stubborn dog won't go beyond, say, peeing on your favorite chair. Not even wolves kept by humans turn on them; if anything, people who keep wolves say the problem with them is they're too damned submissive.

With dogs and wolves, pack loyalty and respect for the pack hierarchy are not something they can lay down. Not even if they're starved and abused. Dogs turn aggressive, not out of any attempt at dominance, but out of fear. Attack dogs are trained to be fearful of people who are out of place or acting suspiciously. When that dog is large, like a mastiff, or especially strong and tenacious, like a pit bull, this results in people being hurt badly.

 

[secondchildren]

People assume dogs are even capable of feeling love. I think it's more likely that dogs act loyal to you because you feed them and threat them well. They need you and they know it. They see you as a pack leader, an alpha dog. They know you, as the alpha, will take care of your pack (your family and your dog). That's why they try to stay on your good side. But if a dog smells you're weak of if it thinks you're incapable of being a good pack leader, it's only a matter of time before the dog will challenge your leadership. All of the sudden, the nice dog is not so nice anymore. He'll be agressive and then you realize your dog never truly loved you, he only follow you because he acknowledged you as his leader.

You do not have a dog, do you?


ON topic: I don't understand the cats vs dogs ppl honestely, I think I'm one of the people that Pangaea was saying about, coz I love both. I've got two cats (which I already showed you) and adore them. They're my lil babies, but I'd love to have a dog too. It's just that my mom don't like furries and barely allow me to keep these two so...

But if I could I'd love to lòive like Ace Ventura LOL

@Guy N'wah
I already adore her! It's such a moving story and you must be a great person having to go throught all these troubles with her. And it's definitely not easy to deal with an abused dog, coz they're shocked forever and forever they bear a sign in their mind for the sufference they had. It's sad....

You know what? I hope that scum that abused her will be forced to spend all the money for his own health!

@n4meless1
Hello sweety!
Are you sure that you haven't trained your dog to attack console gamers? Phew that I'm a PC one!

@Blothulfur and the rest

we want photossss

 

[n4meless1]

@Luc0s

I had dogs my whole life, and what you just wrote is rubbish, plain and simple. Loyalty doesn't lead a dog to die from happiness when he sees you for the first time in the morning, or when you go to holiday and return after a week, I just can't explain the reaction of my dog.. he starts whimpering like he's crying, and I can't get him off of me. You can clearly see that in his eyes..

Loyalty doesn't lead him to come to you, when you're sitting on steps, and put his head on your lap. But, all this vary from dog to dog- my previous dog French Shepherd Beauceron, a rare and beautiful breed, but very aggressive one, had to be put down ( ) , because he started growling at my father, and even at me at some point; yes, he listened to me, but was rather cold.. This white one is totally opposite, and the greatest threat from him is to be licked to death..

@n4meless1
Hello sweety!
Are you sure that you haven't trained your dog to attack console gamers? Phew that I'm a PC one!

Now, that is a nice idea!

 

[luc0s]

Yes, yes...that clearly explains why there have been many cases where the dog would literally starve itself to death after the loss of it's master - because it respects the long gone "pack leader".

I especially love that part about "challenging" the owner. One would think all those guide dogs would be aggressive like you suggested, since their master is completely dependent on them - and hence "weak".

Seriously, get off it.

I've never heard of a dog starving itself to death after the loss of it's master.


And guide-dogs are natural followers (some dogs are natural leaders, other's are natural followers). Those dogs are natural followers and on top of that, they are specifically trained to ben calm and assertive, yet obedient to the owner at all times. It has nothing to do with love. It takes years of training and conditioning to get a dog capable of leading a blind owner while staying in a calm position without questioning the leadership of it's blind owner.

 

[luc0s]

You do not have a dog, do you?

I had a dog. Well, to be more precisely, my parents had a dog when I was younger. The thing is, the dog kept attacking my brother, my mother was scared of it and only my father and I could handle the dog. Why? Because my brother kept challenging the dog to a "fight", not knowing that this means you consider the dog as an equal in the pack-oriented dog world. The dog always won the fight and then my brother was hurt (often not that bad) and came crying for my father with tears in his eyes telling that the dog was mean to him again. Yeah, no shit sherlock, that's what you get when you don't know what you're doing.
As a result, my mother became scared of the dog, because she didn't trust him anymore. Ignorant about dogs, she blamed his bad behavior on him, not on my brother or herself.
My father and I however, knew how dogs think and how they operate. They need to be shown who's boss. They need to know that in this family, they're not anyones equal, they're below everyone. They're the omega. Our dog needed to know that my father is the alpha, and he is the omega, the lowest of the low, below my brother, below me, below my mother and below my father.

The dog was young and ignorant himself too. So honestly, I don't blame my dog for anything that happened. My brother got hurt because of his own damn fault. My mother was scared of the dog because of her own damn fault. The dog only listened to me and my father, because we knew how to handle a dog, my brother and my mother clearly didn't.

Dit I love my dog? Yes, to a certain extent. I'm sure my love for the beast was not as strong as the bond between some of you and your dog. But I loved him, sure. I felt compassion for him. I even felt sorry for him because I knew damn well that our home was not a good home for him. In the end, the dog was saved by his previous owner. She saw that we were not happy with him (my mother and brother especially), so she offered us a refund if we gave her (the previous owner) the dog back. We agreed and with a bit of sadness I said goodbye to my dog. I was sad that our dog had to leave, but at the same time I felt relieved. We were clearly not the right family for a dog.

 

[Blothulfur]

Greyfriars Bobby, look him up. Fourteen years mourning by his masters graves, until he himself died.

 

[knightrobby]

I love both dogs and cats equally. My dog is getting up there in age (don't want to think about it) but she's so wonderful. And then I have a black and white cat. I remember the first time I saw the white cat, I was all over him. He just sticks out like a sore thumb, even in the black of night! LOL

Meet Daisy and Ebony:

Meet Casper (he's HUGE):

People assume dogs are even capable of feeling love. I think it's more likely that dogs act loyal to you because you feed them and threat them well. They need you and they know it. They see you as a pack leader, an alpha dog. They know you, as the alpha, will take care of your pack (your family and your dog). That's why they try to stay on your good side. But if a dog smells you're weak of if it thinks you're incapable of being a good pack leader, it's only a matter of time before the dog will challenge your leadership. All of the sudden, the nice dog is not so nice anymore. He'll be agressive and then you realize your dog never truly loved you, he only follow you because he acknowledged you as his leader.

I find this thinking interesting. Why is it, then, that when I am sicker than usual that my cat (in example) somehow knows and hangs around my room during those times? I notice my dog can especially pick up on certain things, including emotions. I think down the road, in the future, humans will realize how dogs, cats (animals in general) are to themselves. They just want love and peace, and in my opinion are family members and have souls

 

[luc0s]

I find this thinking interesting. Why is it, then, that when I am sicker than usual that my cat (in example) somehow knows and hangs around my room during those times? I notice my dog can especially pick up on certain things, including emotions. I think down the road, in the future, humans will realize how dogs, cats (animals in general) are to themselves. They just want love and peace, and in my opinion are family members and have souls

Well, thanks for respecting my reasoning. You're the first person who doesn't get al personal and worked-up about what I said. I thank you for that.

Both cats and dogs are natural pack animals. That means that they have a natural instinct to care about the members of their pack. After all, they rely on their pack for their survival, or so their instinct tells them. I think that's the reason why your cat is around you when you're sick. He/she is guarding you, for your sake, but also for his/her own sake, because (s)he relies on you and (s)he knows it.

 

[Blothulfur]

It's a great arrogance to believe we as animals are so superior to other mammals, our peer groups are packs, our behaviour one step up from chimps and in some ways supposed "lesser" creatures shame us.

 

[GuyNwah]

I had a dog. Well, to be more precisely, my parents had a dog when I was younger. The thing is, the dog kept attacking my brother, my mother was scared of it and only my father and I could handle the dog. Why? Because my brother kept challenging the dog to a "fight", not knowing that this means you consider the dog as an equal in the pack-oriented dog world. The dog always won the fight and then my brother was hurt (often not that bad) and came crying for my father with tears in his eyes telling that the dog was mean to him again. Yeah, no shit sherlock, that's what you get when you don't know what you're doing.
As a result, my mother became scared of the dog, because she didn't trust him anymore. Ignorant about dogs, she blamed his bad behavior on him, not on my brother or herself.
My father and I however, knew how dogs think and how they operate. They need to be shown who's boss. They need to know that in this family, they're not anyones equal, they're below everyone. They're the omega. Our dog needed to know that my father is the alpha, and he is the omega, the lowest of the low, below my brother, below me, below my mother and below my father.

The dog was young and ignorant himself too. So honestly, I don't blame my dog for anything that happened. My brother got hurt because of his own damn fault. My mother was scared of the dog because of her own damn fault. The dog only listened to me and my father, because we knew how to handle a dog, my brother and my mother clearly didn't.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience with your dog, but what this shows is that your family does not know so much about dogs as you think, probably no more than my parents did. You have overlooked the two most likely explanations. One is that the dog had a previous traumatic experience with a small boy, and thereafter was fearful of them. Unless the dog was a rescue, that's not likely. The more likely explanation is that the dog wanted to play, and dog play gets rough and tumbly and nippy and too much for many small children. Some breeds of dog have a reputation as being unsuitable for small children, largely for these reasons: they cannot deal with small children, or small children find it hard to deal with them.

You're right about one thing, though, dogs do need to learn their position in the "family pack". But it's a rare dog indeed that doesn't catch on quickly to the fact that it's the omega. (Now, when you have more than one dog, they will form their own hierarchy, which you need to acknowledge, otherwise it will confuse them. But that hierarchy is still below all the humans in the household.)

 

[GuyNwah]

It's a great arrogance to believe we as animals are so superior to other mammals, our peer groups are packs, our behaviour one step up from chimps and in some ways supposed "lesser" creatures shame us.

One step up?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlqsaxL-wCw&feature=fvst[/media]

(Comment on the above video)

Fun fact, when two tribes meet they f***.
When theres a fight they f***.
When there bored they f***.
When they greet each other they f***.
I was born into the wrong species

 

[luc0s]

I am sorry you had such a bad experience with your dog, but what this shows is that your family does not know so much about dogs as you think, probably no more than my parents did. You have overlooked the two most likely explanations.

Have I? Let's see...

One is that the dog had a previous traumatic experience with a small boy, and thereafter was fearful of them. Unless the dog was a rescue, that's not likely.

Nope. I've seen the dog being born. I know exactly where the dog came from and I know it's exact history. In fact, the dog was only 8 weeks old when it was taking away from his mother and became part of our family. I don't know if that's too soon or not, but the puppy seemed to be fine without his mother, so I guess 8 weeks is old enough.

The more likely explanation is that the dog wanted to play, and dog play gets rough and tumbly and nippy and too much for many small children. Some breeds of dog have a reputation as being unsuitable for small children, largely for these reasons: they cannot deal with small children, or small children find it hard to deal with them.

This might be true in the beginning, but it became more than that. Our dog became actively hostile towards my brother just before we decided to return the dog to his previous owner. The dog was nog longer playful with my brother and my brother's injuries were no longer accident. By this time, the dog did it on purpose, I clearly saw that. At this time, it was no longer my brother picking the fights with my dog, it was my dog picking fights with my brother. The way my dog tried to fight my brother was very clear: he tried to dominate my brother. The dog actually tried to put himself above my brother in the pack. He tried to dominate my brother.

You're right about one thing, though, dogs do need to learn their position in the "family pack". But it's a rare dog indeed that doesn't catch on quickly to the fact that it's the omega. (Now, when you have more than one dog, they will form their own hierarchy, which you need to acknowledge, otherwise it will confuse them. But that hierarchy is still below all the humans in the household.)

I think the reason why the dog didn't acknowledge the fact that it was the omega is because of my brother and my mother. It was their fault. They couldn't handle him. Our dog was obviously a natural leader. He questioned my brother's position in the pack and tried to put himself above my brother. In a way he succeeded, because my brother simply let himself getting dominated by the dog. Same goes for my mother. She became scared and fear is a weakness. A dog can smell fear. Sometimes the dog will become scared too if it's owner is scared, but sometimes a dog will react violently to fear. Such a dog will not acknowledge a scared person as his/her boss, resulting in the dog challenging the person's rank in the pack.

 

[n4meless1]

I've never heard of a dog starving itself to death after the loss of it's master.

Have you heard of the dog who overcome his mortal fear of water and jumped in to save his master? Or about a dog who traveled hundreds of kilometers on foot to find his family which was ethnically cleansed during one bloody and stupid war on the Balkans (and he did find them). There are many incredible true stories like these..

Have you read 'A call of the wild'?