Rate the Witcher 2 Combat System

[c69]

Rate the Witcher 2 Combat System

I have read that many people think the combat system is just adequate. I don't have alot of experience in the genre, so have nothing to compare it to. I am playing through chapter 2, so I havent completed the game. Here are my thoughts:

The combat system appears to have alot of depth, with the ability to block, riposte, and two levels of strike. In the prologue and act I there are a number of satisfying combats that arise when there is an armed opponent who can block. (Strong humanoids). Position in the game is also highly important. Dodging and rolling seems to be a key mechanic to avoid getting cornered and hit by multiple opponents. A perfect example of this is the courtyard temple fight in the prologue.

Monster fights are also exciting and involve a high level of dodging and counterattacking. The queen endrega fights are good examples of exciting monster fights.

Unfortunately, the fight mechanic seems to fall by the wayside later in the game. When I have run into challenging opponents, I rapidly chuck a few bombs at them and the fight is over almost instantly.

Then there are the "canned" boss fights like the kayran which are exciting and interesting because of their novelty.


My overall opinion of the game is that the mechanics are there to have an exceptional combat system, but the fights are not all particularly well balanced. I think the ability to use bombs and traps, as well as spamming quen makes the combats too easy. I wish there was more swordplay. You can basically get through the game without using the block button a single time.

Perhaps they should have implemented cooldowns on certain abilities like quen and bombs. I know they have global CDs on signs, but you can spam quen, so its not particularly well balanced. I think with a little tweaking the system would be awesome.

 

[eskiMoe]

7.5.

I would've preferred an upgraded version of the first game's combat in all fairness. Geralt looks so slow and clumsy in The Witcher 2. And the combat system is still somewhat unresponsive/buggy. It breaks the immersion since it's nothing like how he fights in the books. The first game was a lot more "accurate" even tho the combat system was basically just chained QTEs.

 

[tarshaid]

I don't know if using bombs make the game that easy, I already thought that there was too much swordsplay; that's right, quen is way too powerful, but if bombs have too much power, then my sword too, as I bashed most of my enemies by just rolling around them and landing strikes in their back, or if I had not the energy to do it, just counter-attacking. I admit I took the swordsmanship way, so it's normal most of my strenght comes from my blows, but still, since the beginning of chapter 2, I used not a single trap, very few bombs, and casted daggers only to get rid of them...

I forgot the note... let's say... 8, because I like the way it works, but sometimes the lack of responsiveness is a real pain. (I don't note the lack of HP of my enemies)

 

[secondchildren]

7.5.

I would've preferred an upgraded version of the first game's combat in all fairness. Geralt looks so slow and clumsy in The Witcher 2. And the combat system is still somewhat unresponsive/buggy. It breaks the immersion since it's nothing like how he fights in the books. The first game was a lot more "accurate" even tho the combat system was basically just chained QTEs.

Oh yea, I quote this entirely. Combat system need huuge improvements.
If I should vote it 7.5 seems ok with me too.

 

[mrowakus]

7.0

It's too arcadish as indicated by rolling and bossfights. Visually it even looks stupid - not like a swordfight but like leapfrogging. The fact that bossfights are build wholly around the idea of rolling is beyond stupid.

In spite of devs claiming otherwise the tactical layer is very shallow - you don't NEED to use any of the skills given to you. There are universal skills that are better in EVERY circumstances (rolling, Quen) than others, inferior in EVERY situation (blocking, Igni). No; roll left, roll right, use a power-up does not count as a valid tactic - every arcade game has that.

Still, I have to admit that combat is certainly quite engaging - more than in DA2, KOTOR, Oblivion etc.

 

[phamvan94]

8/10

Rework rolling and Quen and I will he happy.

 

[c69]

If there was a CD on quen, it might force people to block/riposte.

I think the rolling makes sense when a large group of foes approach from all sides, as it lets you escape from them being behind. It also lets you get around to the side of foes like the queen endrega, but against single or normal foes it becomes almost too powerful.

Because of the rolling and Geralts ability to cover large distances so quickly, if they gave foes a similar abilty to leap forward, that might offset how overpowered it is.

I think what they have is workable and would rather they tweak the existing system for next game then rewrite it. THe system is fun, fluid, and graphically interesting. Depending on where you are, Geralt will leap at foes and do different attacks.

 

[nightwing88]

8/10

Rework rolling and Quen and I will he happy.

Totally agree! Those are the two most unbalanced skills. All the others seem very nice. Well, except for Axii. Did anybody of you use Axii seriously?! The timespan seems way to short for me. I didn't really use it in the first Witcher nor in the second one... For a possible Addon, i would also appreciate more boss fights like the fight against the Kayran.

 

[mrowakus]

If there was a CD on quen, it might force people to block/riposte.

I think the rolling makes sense when a large group of foes approach from all sides, as it lets you escape from them being behind. It also lets you get around to the side of foes like the queen endrega, but against single or normal foes it becomes almost too powerful.

Rolling makes no sense in any combat situtation you can think of in real life. It throws you off balance, and renders vulnerable in any conditions.

Besides, it's plain boring. Roll, roll, roll, slash, roll, roll, roll... etc. Lastly, it is not tactical at all. All three boss fights essentially boil down to rolling your a** around and then hitting the boss, then rolling back. So where did those witcher skills go? Arcadish and boring.

Mind you some arcade games at least manage to do it right like one here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy_4_4NMZ44&t=1m17s

TW2 is said to be an RPG. It should aspire to be much more than that,

Because of the rolling and Geralts ability to cover large distances so quickly, if they gave foes a similar abilty to leap forward, that might offset how overpowered it is.

Can you imagine such duels? It would be two guys rolling around each other like rabbid rabbits, each hoping to strike one slash, and roll back. Not my definition of exciting.

I think what they have is workable and would rather they tweak the existing system for next game then rewrite it. THe system is fun, fluid, and graphically interesting.

3 times no. It's boring, cluncky and visually pathetic.

Depending on where you are, Geralt will leap at foes and do different attacks.

3 times yes. Leaping at foes and striking them down - throwing them off balance with your body mass is cool, plausible and graphically interesting. Spamming rolling during every fight, and particullarly boss-fights is not.

 

[GuyNwah]

+ Targeting
+ Chaining
+ Fast/Strong distinction

- Sign gating (Geralt not responding to sign keys)
- Unnecessary Combat Rolls
- Limited usefulness of Parry and Riposte

Warrants at least an 8/10, but not a 9/10, especially with the improved fluidity in 2.0. And yes, I use Axii a lot (less than Aard, though).

 

[phamvan94]

Besides, it's plain boring. Roll, roll, roll, slash, roll, roll, roll... etc. Lastly, it is not tactical at all. All three boss fights essentially boil down to rolling your a** around and then hitting the boss, then rolling back. So where did those witcher skills go? Arcadish and boring.

TW1 boiled down to spamming Igni and Group style was easy mode for being overwhelmed, both games have their flaws in regards to combat.

If they somehow find a way to incorporate pirouettes (perhaps it would be used to dodge/counter attacks or briefly stun opponents in close vicinity, of course it would have to have a cost like vigor attached to it) in TW3 that would be pretty awesome.

Or we just need a normal difficulty curve, instead of an inverse one.

 

[Mau]

8.5/10

 

[Babli.480]

7.5.

I would've preferred an upgraded version of the first game's combat in all fairness. Geralt looks so slow and clumsy in The Witcher 2. And the combat system is still somewhat unresponsive/buggy. It breaks the immersion since it's nothing like how he fights in the books. The first game was a lot more "accurate" even tho the combat system was basically just chained QTEs.

This.. exactly my sentiments too.

 

[username_3236168]

many people hated it but i loooooved the old system!!! it was not button mashing and now i was watching my friend play witcher it and all i could hear is continues mouse clicks, and then a i realised it's hack and slash combat "/

video

 

[Blothulfur]

7/10.

Functional and enjoyable once you've got the hang of it, but I dislike the reliance on rolling around in the mud. It's a wee bit silly, like a very slow sonic the hedgehog.

Games that I think have done the combat justice are that old Eidos game Revenant, Severance blade of darkness and Neverwinter Nights/Knights of the Old Republic. Obviously the latter relies much less on player skill than the others and unashamedly hangs its hat on character skills, but the animations, the integration of blocking/parrying and the useful skills all make it a joy to play.

Geralt even with the brilliant improvements that came with patch 2.0 still seems a little slow for a supernaturally fast mutant, but it is fun to play and i'm once again strolling the mean streets of Flotsam so obviously i'm not too put out of whack by it.

 

[Bowmangr]

TW1's one and only bad thing was combat. A string of continuous QTEs which made it completely boring. Thankfully the rest of the game's aspects were top notch which more than made up for the mediocre combat system. I also acknowledge that they did the best that they could with that game engine.

TW2's combat system is way more engaging and fluid. I didn't have any problems even from version 1.0. It worked very well, it was hard, it was brutal.
I do believe that it has room for improvement but most of the work is already done. It just needs minor changes to be a great combat system.

Some suggestions:

1} Reduce Quen's usefulness. Although I don't agree with those who ask for a Quen nerf because there are specific situations in the game that Quen is extremely useful as it was meant to be, it's also obvious that it's a bit too good in some other cases where other skills should be used.
So I propose to just change what Quen can counter. TW2 game engine probably cannot handle this without breaking the game balance but they can use it for TW3. Make Quen block only opponents with blunt/slashing weapons like an invisible forcefield. Thrusting weapons should be able to pierce it. Moreover make it block magic projectiles and increase the number of those projectiles in-game. I mean use more ranged opponents {spellcasters, monsters with projectile attacks}.

This way Quen will only be used when facing specific opponents and not when facing ANYONE. It will reduce it from a mini god-mode to a specific skill that players can use among others. And if you want you can make it upgrade to the version of Quen that we have right now but only if the player specifically goes for a Magic-heavy character build.

A quick solution for Quen could also be to greatly increase its casting time. If it needed 3-4 seconds to activate then it would be more difficult to use it effectively.


2} Increase projectile firing opponents in general. Arrow redirection skill feels useless. Moreover, I have to propose an animation change in order to make it fell more "real" so to speak. I can accept arrow deflection with a sword but I cannot get arrow REDIRECTION with a sword. It's a bit far-fetched even for a fantasy game. I propose that you make Geralt use a mini-Aard move when using Arrow Redirection and not his sword. It will be more believable if the arrow is redirected with telekinesis rather than a sword move.


3} Allow mutagens to be upgraded but not exchanged. I mean if a player has a better version of an already used mutagen allow him to further mutate it. Do NOT allow players to overwrite mutagen slots with a different mutagen type. This way players can choose how they want Geralt to mutate but not wait for a greater mutagen to drop while selling the lesser ones.


4} Make BLOCKING less effective the less Vigor Geralt has. If he has full Vigor his block should be more powerful than when he is empty. I do NOT agree with making block counter 100% of the damage.


5} Remove rolling movements when dodging and replace them with pirouettes and actual combat moves.

6} Make bombs more of a support weapon and remove those that do a lot of damage. Keep the ones that slow down, poison, incinerate, confuse, terrorise or otherwise weaken Geralt's opponents but do NOT allow bombs to do instant damage so that Geralt cannot spam bombs.
If you do want to add a Grenade-like bomb that does direct damage then at least increase its damage radius and allow Geralt to receive damage from it so that players will only use it in open environment and only when the enemies are far enough. After they have closed in then that bomb should be useless because of friendly fire.

or

Greatly increase the cost {ingredient cost, oren cost} of bombs so that players cannot have too many during the course of the game. Of course the Alchemist path should make it way easier to make those bombs with some of its skills


7} Do NOT allow Geralt to learn the weaknesses of the monsters by fighting them. I mean do not unlock the Journal entries. Players who want to really know about a specific monster's weakness should go buy a book about it. Like TW1.


8} Lose the Junk items and make Lures useful or remove them altogether.


9} Use TOTAL DARKNESS areas so that Cat potion becomes relevant again. Dark areas should be completely dark and even setting my monitors brightness to 100% shouldn't do anything to help me navigate those areas. I mean if a player won't use a Cat potion then he absolutely shouldn't be able to see anything at all in those areas.
There really aren't any really dark areas in TW2. I never had to use a Cat potion.

or

Since you use day-night cycles in the game you could add some penalties to Geralt when fighting during the night so that smart players should always try to use Cat which will remove those penalties of course.



Oh, I forgot. I need to rate the combat system right?

Well, it is very good. I enjoy it very much. It needs some minor fixes to be absolutely great. So 8.5/10

I expect great things from TW3 now that they have a new engine that is capable of many things and they have the player feedback from TW2. Unless the X-Box crowd starts asking about the usual dumbed down elements that console gamers are used to and CDPR decides that their next game should be dumbed down to appeal to them...

 

[alcek]

I'm not sure how to rate the combat system of TW2,but also think it was a step in the wrong direction.Mentioning direction - Risen is a fine example of well developed action RPG combat , almost to perfection.You,ve got an offensive strike and defense(real one - not like in TW2) giving you the basic "rules"of the fight. Then you evolve with heavy strike(holding LMB instead of just clicking) to break through enemy defensive stance and jumping away(double click direction keys) to evade enemy heavy strikes,that can't be blocked. And you've got yourself a Game already.Throw in some side slashes(left/right+LMB) and riposte(LMB when enemy hit connects) and voila - a complex combat system,challenging enough to keep you on your toes through all of the game.It's complexity is welcome for the RPG genre,because it actually has to be taught to the main hero(aka - the player).

Now the bad thing is...all of the above is not quite suitable for The Witcher series. That's why I think it's the wrong direction.Even worse - it's not even a decent combat system,but some mixture from real time fight and RPG "rules" like you hit only one enemy until you get the necessary perk for "multiple damage"...Even worse - if you copy/paste Risen combat system over Geralt - it still wouldn't be enough! Witcher fighting style(s) described in Sapkowski books is so complicated and complex,that assigning "this hit"and "that hit" to different keys will never get us even close to the book,unles these are piano keys

So,the "right direction" IMHO,was presented in the first Witcher.Some friend of mine described it as "Diablo fighting taken to another level". And I think the comparison was exact. Choosing the not-directly-controlled-fighting for TW1 and upgrading it with the strong,fast and multi styles was great idea,that had to be developed and sophisticated even further. Geralt could have not only offensive but also defensive styles(RMB) spectacularly animated as well.Choosing the right moment for attack or defense ,of course will make the difference between life and death. Clicking on near walls or other objects could result in Geralt performing acrobatic jumps and pirouettes,even "air-attacks"( after acquiring the ability ) according to the "offensive" or "defensive" mouse button pressed...etc.,etc.

Actually,instead of complaining how bad the new combat is, we should start a thread about what combat will be the best for TW 3 !

 

[nmargot]

8.5-10

 

[Kindo.824]

I think the combat system in The Witcher 2 is one of the game's greatest strengths, but it suffers from buggy, unreliable, and at times frustrating problems. There is the random input lag, the unreliable animation cooldowns, and the still sometimes buggy behaviour (completely unresponsive controls) to take into account. Even so, I can see how the system is supposed to work, and I can still truly enjoy it on most occasions.

 

[yandownie]

i prefer the witcher 2 combat system to the 1st witcher which was far too easy although i prefer the 1st game overall