Rate the Witcher 2 Combat System

[checksix]

I love what the combat system is trying to accomplish but until the problem with responsiveness is dealt with it only deserves a 7/10.

You can't have an action based, "twitch" combat system that doesn't respond IMMEDIATELY to player input.

But keep iterating, devs! It's getting there and I love the potential!

 

[gordynec]

First of all, I think CDPR is great beacause they do one simple thing... they actually listen to their fans!

As for the combat system, IMHO:

- Geralt should run and attack a bit faster, like he does in the books.

- Potions should be a bit more difficult to create, but be more useful(potion duration doubled and not counting on cutscenes)

- Bombs should be far more dificult to create but more effective.

- Geralt shouldn't stagger so much when he hits another swordsman parry(he is a witcher for gods sake!!!) or shield, only when hitting a large monster's parry, like golems.

- They should eliminate that riposte animation in wich Geralt literally rolls towards the enemy(not only we get hit alot by adjacent foes, but it makes no sense to roll towards an enemy that's very near), or just allow that when we are riposting a bit far from the foe.

- Piruettes, jumps or other evasion techniques for handling multiple enemies(seems geralt's amnesia is really strong as he only remembers rolling).

- Quen should be much faster to activate, take 1 2 or 3 hits(depending on the skill level) to fade away, when faded, 10~15 seconds cooldown(could be improved with a new skill who knows...).

- Monsters should have a bit more HP(maybe 30~40%), Humans should have low hp but more resources(dodge, parry, strategy).

- Geralt should only take damage when parrying monsters(which one is easier to parry? a sword or a rotfiend's claw?) so players would feel more need to master dodge techniques(pirouette, jump, roll).

- Just an idea but they could implement another gauge just for parry, that depletes if we parry too much in a short period o time. Gauge empty = no parry or 50% damage taken when parrying. I just think that signs and parry should be two ENTIRELY separate features.

I'm sorry if this is off topic but:

Please don't put so many enemies in small rooms or corridors, it's just forcing us to use Quen...

Please CDPR don't take me wrong, IMO gameplay is as important as good plots. TW2 is great, but if you could improve the combat system and make it more flexibe and "witcherly" as it should be, it would be the perfect game!

combat rating: 6/10

 

[Xagnos]

Ok I refuse to use scores because I believe that is the not the way to approach a review for a game. But basically, the combat system has a lot of potential in that it ALLOWS you to be tactical and outsmart your opponents, which is a LOT of fun but unfortunately this is not required throughout most of the game. When I play The Witcher 2, I use everything at my disposal. If there's multiple knights, I'll use yrden to crowd control a few soldiers, then use Axii to mind control the strongest of them, and pick off them one by one. Its things like this that make the combat system shine. But as others have said, using the quen+slash and roll tactic is more effective and requires less effort. One may argue that exploits like this are found in all games, but I wish CD Project would have actually FORCED tactics and strategy on us (which is what they might have intended, but might have underestimated the abilities of quen). So here's the breakdown:

Pros
+ Combat System allows for a lot cool combat styles and ideas. You have sword techniques, magic, bombs, traps, daggers at your disposal to shape your own style.

+ Can be played in a tactical/strategic manner if the player chooses to.

+ Potions is reserved as preparation, and can't be used during combat. This IMO makes things much better and more realistic and pays respect to the novels.

Cons
- Game doesn't force you to use all of your tools and skills, even at the hardest difficulty. On dark mode and Insane, you can get away with using quen and rolling when you should really be forced to use tactics.

- Some bugs here and there. When I use a forward quick slash, sometimes (rarely) I'll get a heavy slash (this shouldn't be confused with Overall combat responsiveness, which contrary to what others think, I thought was spot on besides these points). Hotkeys are also unresponsive at some points. I'm forced to press the hotkey and then the Q button sometimes.

- Other forms of evasive maneuvers are absent (pirouettes, flips, etc.).

 

[Garrison72]

I couldn't have said it better myself, JC. The more I experiment with tactics other than Quen and rolling, the more impressed I am with the depth of combat in TW2.

 

[username_2063120]

Well to me it's 3/10 and I did like more the system from TW1.

The only reasonable tactic is to wait for the enemy to start an attack, walk back (to evade), deal one blow, roll a few times to get out of the range. Pretty boring.

Secondly, the camera work and the lock on feature is awful - most of the time you end up rolling in the dead end, not seeing where your enemies are. The lock-on doesn't work most of the time - Geralt shoots Igni in plain air instead of the locked target.

The system requires you to drink potions to aid yourself but you can't drink most of the time ('you cannot do this here'). So basically you have to enter some area, get killed and then you know you should have drunk this and that.

Once you start an attack you cannot parry or dodge which pretty much kills the system combined with the fact that enemy attacks take less time than your rolls. You can roll only when you see the enemy attack but once it happens you won't make it anyway. Blocks do practically nothing and they drain your 'spell mana' so to say.

I also liked it in TW1 that you fought 1-3 enemies, not 3-8 as it is mostly in TW2.

It would also seem that the enemies can hit you even if they're not making a contact with you, like when they stand close to you but not facing you - their attacks can still reach you.

So in my opinion:
- clumsy camera work,
- unresponsive controls,
- combat requires dodges but the environment doesn't give you the ability to make them,
- unclear hit collisions,
- many encounters not winnable on the first try (die to learn what you needed),

+ many different potions/traps/bombs,
+ had a potential for something great,

 

[YpSan]

Combat is the only complaint I ever had about this game. Rolling all over the place + unresponsive controls would ruin the game if other elements like graphics, story and voice acting haven't been so great. We are rating only combat here but I can't help but be little generous on account of other great things so I'll give it

6.0

 

[Xagnos]

why is everyone getting unresponsive controls? Besides the minor hiccup every now and then, its been fluid and responsive for me.

 

[Garrison72]

why is everyone getting unresponsive controls? Besides the minor hiccup every now and then, its been fluid and responsive for me.

Hardware. I've tested this extensively on my average rig. It's perfectly responsive and smooth only if I set everything to the lowest possible setting.

 

[hideinlight]

Responsiveness(input lag) seems to be relative to the framerate like in UT3 where you had to get 90fps and change a few settings for perfect resaponse:

Mouse smoothing -> off
OneFrameThreadLag -> off (massive computer required)
Vsync -> off

It was actually possible to check the input via "stat fps".

Controller in Witcher2 seems to be fine though.

 

[mrowakus]

I couldn't have said it better myself, JC. The more I experiment with tactics other than Quen and rolling, the more impressed I am with the depth of combat in TW2.

I just don't see it. Call me blind, but I don't see any 'tactics' in this game. Could you give me a few of your favourite tactics, and explain how they actually work? Maybe I am just prejudiced, or something, but I don't see anyone doing anything that common sense would not dictate. To me that hardly qualifies as 'tactics'.

 

[whiplash27]

I just beat TW1 for the second time. I haven't read through this thread much, but I can't see how anyone could prefer the combat in TW1 vs TW2.

In TW1 I do like that as you get more advanced in your swordsmanship you get different moves, but in the heart of it, it's still click click click. Dodging is only useful when you're surrounded. Otherwise you just have to make sure to select the proper attack mode depending on your foe.
I was using Aard like crazy in my run on Hard. Just Aard, stun/knockdown, finish. The game wasn't all that difficult. By the end of the game Igni is so powerful with the high endurance and quick recovery, add in some tawny owl and you can just spam Igni all day and annihilate everything. I literally beat the whole ice level, the Grand Master, and the King of the Hunt without using my sword.

TW2 definitely has a much deeper combat system. Quen does make things much easier, you can play the hardest difficulty and Quen is still a superstar. I kind of wish that they had kept Quen more like it was in TW1, more of a get away from the enemies type thing where once you attack, it runs out. I think in TW2, Igni and Aard got more balanced than they were, although they still can be quite powerful, but Quen became super powered.
The actual attacking with left and right click I think is great. I do wish they included a way of learning new and more powerful combat moves as you level up in swordsmanship. Additionally, I wish there was also a way to keep the group combat somehow. Fast is supposed to be left, strong right, not sure how they would have done group, but it would have been cool. Also in TW2, it felt like the quick/strong were one size fits all for most enemies, which was kind of unfortunate.

Overall, TW2 combat system is great, I think it's deep if you avoid Quen whoring. It could be improved upon, but I'd say it's a solid 8/10.

 

[chlong7]

8.0
I could do with nice, simple finishers instead of QTEs during boss fights, but the system works well enough. It isn't as responsive as I would like, but I think that's a processor issue, not a fault of the game (in my case, at least). I appreciate a sense of increased involvement in the sword combat over TW1, but the story and characters are why I play the game.

 

[whiplash27]

Here's my video of the overpowered Igni in TW1. The game was lagging really bad with FRAPS recording a full screen, so that's why I got my ass kicked at the beginning .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkazEv1fxA

So to everyone complaining about Quen, just look at Igni in TW1. With Igni in TW1, you could take out a bunch of guys in no time.

 

[mrowakus]

Here's my video of the overpowered Igni in TW1. The game was lagging really bad with FRAPS recording a full screen, so that's why I got my ass kicked at the beginning .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkazEv1fxA

So to everyone complaining about Quen, just look at Igni in TW1. With Igni in TW1, you could take out a bunch of guys in no time.

Yes, Igni was overpowered like hell... which only prowes that both TW games have serious issues as far as balance in combat is concerned. TW2 is better in that respect, of course. All the same, it somehow feels disappointing that they made the same mistake in the second game. Also it's not only Quen that's overpowered - bloody rolling feels like a perma-cheat mode.

 

[whiplash27]

Roll in itself isn't really that overpowered. Sure it makes life a lot easier, but it's more the combination of roll and Quen that makes it lethal. Unless you're insanely good, try to play Dark mode without Quen and roll to your heart's content, I'm sure you'll die quite often unless you go the mage route (distance fighting).

Honestly, here's how I'd do it:
1. Quen - Like in TW1, disappears once you start attacking. At worst, make the player only allowed to use signs with it on.

2. Blocking - This could have been done much better. Blocking right now is useless against monsters.
2a. Blocking uses no vigor
2b. You can block as much as you want
2c. Using the riposte (counter-attack) uses vigor
2d. Holding block and right clicking attempts to dodge (useful vs monsters)
2e. Blocking and dodging have a percentage chance of working/absorbing blows. For example, when you start the game, you may have a chance of blocking 100% of the enemy's blow and a chance of also missing your block and absorbing 100% of the blow. As you upgrade, then you may have a much higher chance of blocking 100% of the blow and a much lower chance of absorbing the blow (maybe 0%).
2f. Dodge and blocking are upgradable like in TW1 (maybe two upgrades). The higher the level, the more likely you are to block or dodge the enemy's attack without taking damage.

This would hopefully make it more about timing and counter-attack instead of Quen and roll. Rolling to get behind enemies shouldn't be a punished strategy. The problem is that there's also a glitch in the game that if you have Quen on, when you're rolling enemies can't hit you. If you do the same thing without Quen, you get hurt.

If that doesn't fix the problem, then something more can be done.

 

[Garrison72]

I just don't see it. Call me blind, but I don't see any 'tactics' in this game. Could you give me a few of your favourite tactics, and explain how they actually work? Maybe I am just prejudiced, or something, but I don't see anyone doing anything that common sense would not dictate. To me that hardly qualifies as 'tactics'.

Have you missed all my posts about combat, on what I like and what I think needs improvement? I've written quite a bit on the topic, so I won't repeat it all here. We'll never agree on this, but if you want to see my point of view, try playing without Quen in Arena. Then tactics do matter.

On a side note, playing Arkham City. Love the combat...but the bullet time and reliable countering make it so much easier than than TW2. I want to get TW2 running now so I can compare the tow systems.

 

[gingerbill]

3/10 ..... as its implemented at the moment.

As i moaned about in another thread , to much rolling . I like the idea others have mentioned of dodging more instead of having to roll all the time. The fights just look silly rolling around all the time.

Or having a lot of skill (or any skill) behind parrying , it should be about timing your parries and counterattacking , or dodging at the right time , not just rolling aorund in circles. Look at the batman games , i dont expect it to be as good as that but i would settle for anything like that compared to rolling around , roll , roll , roll.

 

[ChrisGamer300]

8/10 I like it never had any unresponsiveness or anything, works very smoothly for me.

 

[Vermeer]

I liked TW2's combat way more than TW1's. It's a step in the right direction to me, although, of course, it can be improved and polished. Maybe making block and riposte a legitimate alternative to rolling? Adding a step backbards to dodge? (Also, Quen is insane). I don't know. I love both Demon's and Dark Souls games to death (pun intended) and TW2 combat somehow reminds me to them, including the 24/7 rolling

 

[jjavier]

Isn't TW2 combat system what need to be rated, but each TW2 player.