Raynard vs An Craite Longship

[North_forever]

I'll start with saying I think Raynard ain't a bad card he's got some uses but if he would be the only one that does what he does he'd be fine but in a way an Craite longship is just a cheaper better version

stats:

For Raynard Power 6 deploy boost adjacent units by one whenever you play a unit boost it by one


For longship power 4 and 1 armor mele row only whenever the enemy plays a unit damage it by one for me very similar but Raynard costs 9 and longship 5 .


Why is an Craite longship better well it's a brown card meaning you can have 2 of them so you can spread them out or use both of them in one round. If Raynard is up against longship they only even out each other but still one is 9 provision.


Why Raynard needs a buff. I liked the idea of card like Egmund similar ability but in different factions they have abilities that take advantage of their factions. So just like here similar abilities but different factions.
But since a provison cost change would be a bit too much we should buff his ability


My idea of balance

First thing that comes to my mind is meve, something like if meve is in starting deck boots units by 2 instead of 1 (good storywise and a buff to meve )


Second idea would be if he's boosted give vitality for 2 turns


But what do You think

 

[Lord-Misplay]

Well one plays for 4 points for 5p at the lowest and the other 8 points for 9p. One can be removed by a 5p bronze card on a single action with no prerequisites, the other one will need a gold card removal or have the board set before that.

 

[North_forever]

Well one plays for 4 points for 5p at the lowest and the other 8 points for 9p. One can be removed by a 5p bronze card on a single action with no prerequisites, the other one will need a gold card removal or have the board set before that.

But is removal in one turn instead of being left with 1 health really worth 4 provision plus 8 points is not the true value it needs two units on board and that's not really the way of playing him he usually is played to guarantee a survival of a card. Plus because of his value he needs to have a important role but he doesn't, that one point usually is not worth that much

 

[Sensimilius]

Yeah well the balance is all over the place lol, we have a lot of 5 provision cards that can play for 8 points in one or two turns without any help from other cards (Bear Witcher, Drummond Berserker, An Craite Raider beefed up on veterancy (obviously most of 'em are SK cards cuz SK must always dominate, such are the rules)). So obviously, Raynard Odo playing for 8 points on deploy (if you have units next to him ofc) then maybe getting more points IF you continue to play units isn't THAT impressive considering he is 9 provisions... One of many examples of power-crept cards.

Post automatically merged: Mar 17, 2021

Yeah well the balance is all over the place lol, we have a lot of 5 provision cards that can play for 8 points in one or two turns without any help from other cards (Bear Witcher, Drummond Berserker, An Craite Raider beefed up on veterancy (obviously most of 'em are SK cards cuz SK must always dominate, such are the rules)). So obviously, Raynard Odo playing for 8 points on deploy (of you have units next to him ofc) then maybe getting more points IF you continue to play units isn't THAT impressive considering he is 9 provisions... One of many examples of power-crept cards.

Meanwhile we have cards like Cintrian Mage, Lyrian Arbalest who are 5 provision but play for 3 or 4 points on deploy lmao. And need support from other cards or leader over several turns to get to their dream value of EIGHT. Meanwhile SK just poops out points on deploy. Well so do NR witchers (perhaps an even more braindead archetype, just spam a quadrillion of witcher recruits and buff everything by crazy amounts). But these wide gaps in values are apparently supposed to be normal. -_-

 

[North_forever]

Yeah well the balance is all over the place lol, we have a lot of 5 provision cards that can play for 8 points in one or two turns without any help from other cards (Bear Witcher, Drummond Berserker, An Craite Raider beefed up on veterancy (obviously most of 'em are SK cards cuz SK must always dominate, such are the rules)). So obviously, Raynard Odo playing for 8 points on deploy (of you have units next to him ofc) then maybe getting more points IF you continue to play units isn't THAT impressive considering he is 9 provisions... One of many examples of power-crept cards.

Post automatically merged: Mar 17, 2021

Meanwhile we have cards like Cintrian Mage, Lyrian Arbalest who are 5 provision but play for 3 or 4 points on deploy lmao. And need support from other cards or leader over several turns to get to their dream value of EIGHT. Meanwhile SK just poops out points on deploy. Well so do NR witchers (perhaps an even more braindead archetype, just spam a quadrillion of witcher recruits and buff everything by crazy amounts). But these wide gaps in values are apparently supposed to be normal. -_-

Couldn't agree more I even made a thread about this (more about the charge units in general and my idea of balance for them)

 

[Lord-Misplay]

that's not really the way of playing him he usually is played to guarantee a survival of a card.

I think your problem then lies there. Not with the cards. You play your cards how you see best turn to turn basis. To avoid, to lure, to push, to bleed or point slam. Anyway to edge your opponent.

 

[North_forever]

I think your problem then lies there. Not with the cards. You play your cards how you see best turn to turn basis. To avoid, to lure, to push, to bleed or point slam. Anyway to edge your opponent.

I'll be honest with you it's a damn expensive bleed card plus as it was said by somebody else here SK has bear witcher for 8 points and 5 P so point slam is also expensive he is the seltkirk cost you know. 9p cards must have some sort of role not be a point slam/bleed card. But let's say you're right then why not use marine ? why not use let's say anna Windhalm Fregeta redenian elite and not pat 9p.

 

[Lord-Misplay]

Thats what I'm trying to say. If you feel an engine will be more useful you will want to keep the engine active. So maybe you play Reynard to lure out a lock or a heatwave or a high removal. You adapt to the circumstances.

 

[North_forever]

Thats what I'm trying to say. If you feel an engine will be more useful you will want to keep the engine active. So maybe you play Reynard to lure out a lock or a heatwave or a high removal. You adapt to the circumstances.

ok but still why not use defender then he also can do as heatwave bait (and from using raynard for about 1k games more or less i can say that mostly people don't heatwve Raynard) but at least other cards won't be touched if he's alive plus the whole thing is still about longship having the same ability for the most part as Raynard plus my 1st suggestion of a buff is expensive 19p meve plus raynard for 2 point of boost instand of one

 

[Markus_Wirth]

Reynard is alright. After is deploy he is a 8 for 9 and then he starts a conditional +1 engine (have to play a unit) with great synergies (Lyrian Scytheman, Inspired enabler, Tridam Infantry,...). Furthermore when you play cards like Queen Adalia you benefit from double boost.
And as already mentioned with 6 body he can be removed more difficult.

The only problem I see is that you want to play him early for his passive ability, but to get the most of his deploy you should have already played 2 adjacent units which were not removed.
I would change him accordingly: Deploy: Boost adjacent units by 1. If you boosted no unit gain Veil (Melee) or Shield (Range).
Then you have another option for him if you face NG block poison, SY self poison (Melee) or damage intensive decks (Range)

 

[North_forever]

Reynard is alright. After is deploy he is a 8 for 9 and then he starts a conditional +1 engine (have to play a unit) with great synergies (Lyrian Scytheman, Inspired enabler, Tridam Infantry,...). Furthermore when you play cards like Queen Adalia you benefit from double boost.
And as already mentioned with 6 body he can be removed more difficult.

The only problem I see is that you want to play him early for his passive ability, but to get the most of his deploy you should have already played 2 adjacent units which were not removed.
I would change him accordingly: Deploy: Boost adjacent units by 1. If you boosted no unit gain Veil (Melee) or Shield (Range).
Then you have another option for him if you face NG block poison, SY self poison (Melee) or damage intensive decks (Range)

i like the viel idea but my problem is still with how longship has similar ability to Raynard and it costs 5 and any bloodthirst card is also what SK can use with longship and like i said in first words of thread i think Raynard is good but he could get better

 

[Lord-Misplay]

ok but still why not use defender then he also can do as heatwave bait (and from using raynard for about 1k games more or less i can say that mostly people don't heatwve Raynard) but at least other cards won't be touched if he's alive plus the whole thing is still about longship having the same ability for the most part as Raynard plus my 1st suggestion of a buff is expensive 19p meve plus raynard for 2 point of boost instand of one

Again you read the game and you play.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

i like the viel idea but my problem is still with how longship has similar ability to Raynard and it costs 5 and any bloodthirst card is also what SK can use with longship and like i said in first words of thread i think Raynard is good but he could get better

Well, for Long ship you pay 5 provisions for 4 body and an engine (1 damage for each unit played). If your opponent does not play units the passive ability is worthless. Synergies with bloodthirst and cards which benefit from damaged units + more control as more targeted units can be removed more easily. Long ship can be easier removed with 4 body + 1 armour.

For Raynard you pay 9 provisions for 6 body (+2 conditional deploy value) and an engine you can control (+1-2 boost each turn) with synergies (Lyrian Scytheman, Inspired enabler, Tridam Infantry,...).

One of my first decks was him + Black Rayla focusing on all those boost inpiration synergies with Royal Inspiration as a leader and I was doing fine.
Also i had a in the early days of MM a deck with him and Viraxas. The double boost of soldiers was also fun in round 3, but was not really the strongest version of my deck here (replaced him for a strong order).

He was not significantly boosted since 2020-04-02.
Later he just got the soldier tag for Crew.

Of course in the current Meta he has limited use. Haven´t seen him for a long time on battleground. The main disadvantage I see is the negative connection between his deploy and his passive ability. and for this I suggested a rework. Maybe can also boost by 2 instead of the shield. Maybe can also think about that he should interact more with soldiers (to my mind an underdeveloped archetype both at NG at NR).

Maybe whenever you play a boosted soldier give bleeding to a random opponent unit based on the amount of boost.

 

[quintivarium]

To my mind, there are enough differences to consider the two cards not really comparable. Reynard does not lose value if played third or forth in a round; Reynard scores more points and gives significantly better reach; Reynard is not row locked; Reynard is gold rather than bronze. And boosts are really not comparable to damage. Boosts help protect vulnerable engines, but can be more easily stripped from cards and boosts can make playing around tall removal (scorch or Rivia) more difficult. Damage can be healed, and is antisynergistic with later removal, but does help move cards into removal range.

I agree that longships are more widely used than Reynard, but I would expect that good bronze cards are used more than gold cards. Because the cards’ roles are so different, I don’t find comparisons helpful.