Sure, but in real life it is like someone have higher level than you. Someone with superior firepower will be victoruius because of several factors. For example:
- ability of using weapon
- weapon accuracy
- weapon type
- bullet caliber
- tactic experience and so on
- etc.
And there is definitely no dummy levels at all.
The main word here — "would". I.e. it is at least possible to kill someone anyway because every bullet (or two with armored cranium) in head is lethal. And you know that it is possible to make it work in game especially if it is still on early stage.
We ((more likely)) wouldn't kill Militech guys not because they have ?? levels but because they have armored heads that will sustain 2-3 bullets while our head only can sustain one.
It sounds similar but it's quite different mechanics. In first case we have 0.0 chance, in second we definitely have a chance above 0 to kill them that maybe not so big. And even if we got killed doing this it will enhance game impression A LOT. But just imagine what will happen on NG+.
This is a dumb mechanic. If the enemies face is exposed, we should be able to shoot them in the face and kill them, militech or not. The rules should apply equally to all. It was bloody idiotic in Witcher that city guards were nigh impossible to defeat.
A shot in the head would kill a normal person with no cyberware. We can see many references in the game of people having all kinds of mechanical parts, even in their heads. With all that technology, I'm pretty sure many people, especially those from the megacorps like Militech, have access to some top of the line cyberware, and why not a full underskin exoskeleton made to resist to a degree, bullets? Specially bullets coming from a common cheap pistol.
Use Street Cred as difficulty indicators, too - to show us if it's a good idea to mess with someone, because that someone is important and might be better equipped than us. That is basically 'Levels'.... Just don't tie it to Amount of HP, general strength, or ability to hold weapons (that can be done immersively with a lack of the higher tier augmentation/grip/whatnot).
Exactly, this is what lvls are used for. As an indicator to show that the enemy has better equipment and abilities. And I agree it shouldn't be tied to things like the enemies overall HP. I think things like that should depend on the enemy's stats set, as with V. How much HP or strength should depend on the enemy's constitution and strength stats.
I don't want to see 'greenies' with a higher level restriction. It's still a basic gun, isn't it? And V knows how to hold these, no?
To be fair, from what was seen in the trailer. V has the ability to pick up rare weapons. I don't think we will be restricted. the gun with homing bullets had a rarity stat and V was able to handle it.
In this game, from the very beginning, CDPR have made a huge deal about trying to remain as faithful to the PNP game as possible. I have so far seen ZERO evidence of that claim being true....
Cyberpunk is not an FPS. It's not a shooter with RPG mechanics either. Cyberpunk is a role-playing game with attributes, skills, perks, items and choices with consequences.
It shouldn't be impossible to kill them with cheap pistol. I've found a wiki article for you:
Subdermal Armor: This is a mesh/ballistic plastic armor inserted under the skin. To detect subdermal armor requires a DIFFICULT Awareness roll. Subdermal armor covers the torso only.
See? It is still possible to kill someone with cheap pistol if you shoot right in head. I'm quite aware that it is possbile to be cranium armor in CP2077, but everything should have its limits.
I afraid that levels is just lazy decision to ease game development and WILL be tied to enemy HP and our maximum damage. Just like it was done in TW3.
I agree that levels can somehow show us the predicted level of difficulty. But even in showed gameplay we somehow were not able to kill three Militech guys and yet killed whole gang of well equipped fanatics who literally replace their faces with cyberware.
Earlier Assassin's Creed games and Shadow of Mordor/War had some sort enemy terrifying system. It was a great touch tbh. Would absolutely love to see it here. Even better if enemies would also sometimes surrender.
Indeed. In particular, wounded toons should be more prone to run away unless they are elite solos, corporate hits squads or bosses, or at least try and surrender and throw away their weapons if they are crippled and can't escape. Also it opens up all manner of interesting narrative options for the Devs.
V could get a reputation as a stone-cold psycho killer if he/she takes no prisoners (which would have both an up and down side), or alternatively gain a reputation as someone who can be reasoned with if he/she doesn't always insist on slaughtering every disabled enemy who offers to surrender (which would also have both an up and down side, depending on the type of enemy being faced as some might think 'V is a rational stand up guy' whist other might think 'V is too soft for Night City').
Lets focus on "a class of specialized cyberware"... "a class". So there might be other types os cyberware not classified as "Implants" that you might be unaware of. Now, seriously, with all that technology around, you finding it hard to believe in the possibility of an underskin protection against bullets is really hard to believe.
I didn't say that it is hard to believe. I've said that everything had to have its limits. Which is hard to believe so is that Militech will make for their low-tier agent a totally bulletproof head that looks like normal and will allow to hang around megabuild ghetto.
I mean, do you rally believe that any armor except exoskeletons on human will protect it from several (or more likely one) wall breaching bullets in head?
The best way of staying true to the rules would just be to have every character having the same life points, etc...
(Body stat is there to determine how you react to pain, but the life points are the same). You'd need to rely on protection (armor, cyberware, etc...) to deal with gunfights, weapons damage would be limited to the type of bullets you put into and headshots are deadly unless protected (for you and the npc).
One thing I have always wanted from a game AI is... morale. Face it, unless they are fanatics (which are rare) or people trapped with no way to escape facing a known merciless enemy, not many groups are willing to fight to the last man! People retreat or even try to surrender if they can't escape!
If you have slaughtered half a ripper gang, it would be very immersive to have some of the ones who are left start running the hell away! Or if they are attacking, have the attack stall, with enemy toon audibly refusing orders to advance. It might even provide an opportunity for shouted dialogue to try and get them to give up or at least stand aside (with reputation implications either way).
IIRC, Sleeping Dogs did this in a sense. When you filled up your Face meter completely, your enemies would react to some of your more brutal attacks, and when doing Drug Busts, after you killed the appropriate amount of enemies, the others would run away.
Now that I think about it, WoW had some mobs that ran away at low health, but they would come running back. I believe the Defias in Westfall did this often. Obviously, it's not the same as what we're talking about, but there are a few games out there that at least touch on this kind of morale system.
Just to add my two cents here (and maybe a dose of optimism):
I enjoy what I've seen so far. There are obviously improvements to be made (gunplay, dialogue system being a bit less FO4, a bit more customization, etc) but for a game that's been in development for at least 3 years, I like what's been shown to us. I get the feeling there are far more things to see and do that hasn't been shown to us, but over time, we'll see new updates, responses from the devs here on the forums, and so on.
I can't see this game getting released until late 2019, and that's at the earliest. But from what they've done so far? I like it. This game is definitely on my list to buy when it eventually comes out. And I'm looking forward to seeing what they're going to show us next.
Dont get me wrong guys, I loved gameplay and I will buy this game no matter what.
But come on, did you see al those gangmembers V killed in demo? they are stupid and just hidding, they are like raiders in fallout 4. And V kills dozens of them, come on this is not schwarzeneger movie. I dont want to kill 20-30 guys every mission, it is too much and it is absolutely unreallistic. all of those enemies have implants and are on drugs and well armed, how is that that V is so much powerfull than 30 of them?
That's a problem with the gameplay not the AI. Considering two people are attempting to raid a gang hideout, why would any gang flee in that situation? If they up the difficulty, give the AI much more damage output, I'm talking player death within a few hits, and an AI reaction time on par with a human or even faster, than you have a much more tactical situation.
I didn't see much if anything that was realistic for a tactical entry or room clearing, which is a disappointment for me at least but I'm sure an RPG like this has many tools/kit they didn't display for the demo and that a harder difficulty would warrant the use of those tools.
Earlier Assassin's Creed games and Shadow of Mordor/War had some sort enemy terrifying system. It was a great touch tbh. Would absolutely love to see it here. Even better if enemies would also sometimes surrender.
And I also know it's highly improbable there will be significant changes to gameplay at this point in development, way to late, and way to time/resource consuming.
Mostly I was looking forward to a character driven RPG, and we were led to believe that's what we were getting. As it stands now it's just another FPS where your character has virtually zero effect on the game. It's merely a graphic representation of the location the player sees and shoots from.
The market is flooded with FPS games, RPGs are few and far between. CP2077 was our hope of seeing one, and it's reception/sales would show the marketing departments of other developers that they could make money publishing RPGs.
Sadly that's not to be.
It's been claimed for years that RPGs are dead, this is pretty much the final nail in the coffin.
So maybe you'll forgive us when we know we'll pretty much never again see games like Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Torment, Bloodlines, Arcanum. Many of us pinned our hopes for a revival of this genre on CP2077.
Wow, Okay, Well I'm so sorry this looks like just another FPS to you, even after all the effort they've put in to show you that its NOT. Well, my friend, I'm sorry to say but I don't think you should get your hopes up for any game, 'cause even after all CP77 is doing and you think its just another FPS, I don't think there's any hope for redemption for the gaming industry in your eyes. I am all up for Criticizing the game and providing feedback good or bad, but this is just a sad little whiny post where you are stuck in your "Oh how old RPGs were great" and "how all the games today suck and RPGs are dying".
They're not dying, infact we've better games than we ever did. Noone claimed RPG's are dead, its all in your head. Play Divinity Original Sin 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, Persona V , Witcher 3, Dragon age Origins, Fallout New Vegas, heck even Assassin's creed is turning into an RPG. They are anything, but dead. So please, excuse me for saying this, but what you're saying is pure BS.
And If you really think all RPGs are dead, then make your own damn game.
Wow, Okay, Well I'm so sorry this looks like just another FPS to you, even after all the effort they've put in to show you that its NOT. Well, my friend, I'm sorry to say but I don't think you should get your hopes up for any game, 'cause even after all CP77 is doing and you think its just another FPS, I don't think there's any hope for redemption for the gaming industry in your eyes. I am all up for Criticizing the game and providing feedback good or bad, but this is just a sad little whiny post where you are stuck in your "Oh how old RPGs were great" and "how all the games today suck and RPGs are dying".
They're not dying, infact we've better games than we ever did. Noone claimed RPG's are dead, its all in your head. Play Divinity Original Sin 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, Persona V , Witcher 3, Dragon age Origins, Fallout New Vegas, heck even Assassin's creed is turning into an RPG. They are anything, but dead. So please, excuse me for saying this, but what you're saying is pure BS.
And If you really think all RPGs are dead, then make your own damn game.
Also "And I also know it's highly improbable there will be significant changes to gameplay at this point in development, way to late, and way to time/resource consuming. "
How is it that you 'know' , are you part of the Development team. Throughout the demo, there was a huge banner saying "this is work in development" and CDPR has confirmed its pre-alpha and things are subject to change. How can you know they can't make any and that they are too late?
Sorry, but this is a complete whiny hate post.
Not everything is going to turn out to be your Own dream game.
All Total wars have had a Morale system, I've been playing TW games since Rome. But its a strategy game, and a completely different genre.
but yeah, I agree a morale system where enemies retreat , surrender, or fake surrender would be cool, optional yes...but cool.
How is it that you 'know' , are you part of the Development team. Throughout the demo, there was a huge banner saying "this is work in development" and CDPR has confirmed its pre-alpha and things are subject to change. How can you know they can't make any and that they are too late?
Sorry, but this is a complete whiny hate post.
Not everything is going to turn out to be your Own dream game.
On the other hand, do you seriosly think CDPR have developed this sort of generic/rudimentary AI and taylored the gameplay around it, over several years, only to be now shown by the community that it's just not good enough and so they will jump on re-working it from the ground up, because it too is "subject to change"?
I mean, it really could be too late at this point.
On the other hand, do you seriosly think CDPR have developed this sort of generic/rudimentary AI and taylored the gameplay around it, over several years, only to be now shown by the community that it's just not good enough and so they will jump on re-working it from the ground up, because it too is "subject to change"?
I mean, it really could be too late at this point.
I seriously doubt that the AI is finished. This game most likely won't be coming out until late 2019, and that's the earliest I can imagine it. They've got a lot of work to do left. Everything is subject to change except things that they have explicitly stated aren't changing.
Keep your hopes up. We've got a long ways to go before the game comes out.
On the other hand, do you seriosly think CDPR have developed this sort of generic/rudimentary AI and taylored the gameplay around it, over several years, only to be now shown by the community that it's just not good enough and so they will jump on re-working it from the ground up, because it too is "subject to change"?
I mean, it really could be too late at this point.
I don't think so. That's precisely why they haven't revealed any Release date and the game is years away, and I think that's quite enough time to rework whatever it is they wish to do except the overall Look and feel of game, the quest structure and the main storyline. All other things are technical, and changing AI behavior takes time yes, but its possible in this span of time with the team they have.
All I mean is AI does not seem like something that you put in your game without thinking about its overall design, and then expect/listen to the community to tell you how it really should be done, as your next step.
I wouldn't judge on AI just by what is seen in the trailer. I bet the quests we saw will play out completely different when you play them in the release game. It's a demo, the character and everything is prepared for a good show case. Also thy mentioned that they tweaked the character for the second mission to show some high level skills.
So I bet also the enemies are not too smart in the demo.
For PnP — sure. But FPS and PnP are quite different, you know.
RPG mechanics exists because you need to somehow simulate randomly some things. What do you want to simulate in realtime FPS?
Realtime FPS and pure RPG mechanics really doesn't mix well.
