KnightofPhoenix said:
Oh it is. It is a demonstration of my grasp of TW's plot and its themes, and my appreciation of them, which you evidently didn't bother to look at. As such, your ridiculous implication that I am a 16 year old dudebro who is not mature enough for it because of a difference in sense of humor, has been utterly refuted.
I never said you are, so stop overreacting. I said that most people that laugh at memes are 16-yo dudebros browsing 9gag.
So again, try again.
KnightofPhoenix said:
I don't want to derail the topic but this needs to be addressed. Games are not fine art. They are not inferior to fine art, mind you, just as much as a kiwi is not inferior to a grapefruit. But a kiwi will never be a grapefruit, no matter how hard it tries or how magnificent of a kiwi it turns out to be.
Games and fine art are fundamentally different. The moment a game ceases to be fun, enjoyable, it's lost its sense of purpose, a purpose which, though possibly not exclusive, is nonetheless intrinsic. The goal of fine art isn't «to be fun», though it certainly can, as a subsidiary quality.
Lastly, you keep mentioning that «a lot of people» are afraid TW will end up resembling Skyrim. How do you know that?
This is simply wrong. I can name a near infinite of games which provide more that just "fun". Games like Spec Ops prove that a game can be a commentary, horror games are certainly not "fun" in the obvious kind of way and Witcher holds your attention with it's deep storyline and moral choices.
This is the word you're looking for - "interest", not "fun". Games have to be interesting, just like any other form of fine art. And you can interest the player by other ways that "fun".
Commenting on the last sentence, it's the internet, I'm just looking at the comments.
KnightofPhoenix said:
Err... not really. The Witcher appeals to a wide variety of people, and manages to bring together fans of traditional computer RPG's and action/adventure games. If you played TW2 (I'm sure you did) you'll notice there are elements of both worlds. Purely traditional computer RPG fans might not even like The Witcher, for reasons that are not relevant in this thread.
I think the main appeal of the Witcher games is their maturity in writing, story telling and the general gameplay direction. This will probably exclude "hardcore" gamers whose interests are mostly power gaming, metagaming and hacking and slashing.
When I said "hardcore gamers", I generally means the demographic that is willing to forgo "fun" for other qualities. What you said is true, but how memes fit into "maturity in writing and storytelling"? They don't.
I don't think it's as serious as some people make it out to be, I don't think CDPR will suddenly throw a meme reference in every dialog. But many people wouldn't like to see ANY of these in a Witcher game.
KnightofPhoenix said:
About the most hated meme in existence - was there a contest, or a research, or you say this just because you do not like it?
Giving that people made videos about how bad and dumb it is, I'd say, yeah, I think it's a strong contender.
KnightofPhoenix said:
Well, we all want a mature deep story, with tough choices. But mature stories can be fully appreciated by mature people, who do not get angry for no reason. When one CDPR member tells a joke, and people get all worried and angry, and vent this anger on forums, it is really hard for me to see them as mature. To take it too seriously, and to call it a PR mistake is something similar to Cold War era paranoia, or time of Stalin purges, when even some innocent statement could be perverted into something big and terrible.
You know, CDPR members are also humans (gee, who could have imagined that?) and some of them may like this meme, and they have every right to use any unoffensive joke they want. Censoring their jokes because some 'mature' fans can get their panties in the knot? Yeah, right. It is just this sort of a demand that tells the devs not to take their fans seriously.
So in a way you're trying to say "you can't have an opinion other than positive". I've explained why people are angered or scared and I'm not going to repeat myself.
KnightofPhoenix said:
About games being art - well, they are similar to movies, only interactive. So they have the same status as movies, and movies can be art.
But one thing is certain - the games must be fun (or at least aim to be fun), it is in their intrinsic nature. Any game in existence is aiming to entertain, otherwise it is not a game anymore.
This is a cancerous way of thinking. Just "making an interacting movie" isn't using game's potential. Games have something movies don't - the player provides the input and the player is responsible for his actions. That creates a much stronger bond between the player and the storyline, which can be used in many creative ways.
But we digress here.
KnightofPhoenix said:
I disagree. You and the complainers you claim are prevalent on the Internet are not looking for that at all. You are looking for a pretext to claim that your discernment is superior to that of others, that you have good reason for your dissatisfaction when in reality you have only your sense of self-entitlement. You will not find an audience who takes that kind of argument seriously here.
Now that's a paranoid way of thinking. There are many good reasons to hate memes and I've listed a couple of them already. I simply want the game to be good. I know general forums of an "X" game is not the best place to criticize "X", but this thread got created and the issue (that is - people being scared of possible Witcher's 3 casualization) existed before.
