He wasn't used to win rounds, he was used to trick your opponent into playing more cards thinking he was Tourviel or gaining Card Advantage
His base strength was never the point I don't think you quite recognise the purpose of this card.
He exists as a mirror to Toruviel. 4 strength wasn't going to win games before hand, the point was to mind fuck the enemy. There is no way to tell if its Toruviel so if they must win the second hand they'd likely play the round as if its a Toruviel and compensate by playing 6+{2x#unit on row).
The only thing better than gaining a 3 card advantage with a Ciaran is winning a round that the opponent had correctly identified the Dragoon buffed Toruviel, over compensated appropriately for these things but didn't know about the Aelirenn Toru triggers and loses by a point.
He exists as a mirror to Toruviel. 4 strength wasn't going to win games before hand, the point was to mind fuck the enemy. There is no way to tell if its Toruviel so if they must win the second hand they'd likely play the round as if its a Toruviel and compensate by playing 6+{2x#unit on row).
The only thing better than gaining a 3 card advantage with a Ciaran is winning a round that the opponent had correctly identified the Dragoon buffed Toruviel, over compensated appropriately for these things but didn't know about the Aelirenn Toru triggers and loses by a point.
NlelithZ44;n7692610 said:
if your suggestions are to use some method to swap him out for a different card then you're helping my argument that he becomes a terrible after being played.
Also if his strength is no big deal and that's not where his usefulness comes from "which I mostly agree with" then why did it need to be reduced in the first place. ya a lot of the time 4 str wont win you a game, but it'll happen more often than 1 strength will.
rajule;n7692080 said:
That saying fool me twice shame on me comes to mind.
You can place him on an enemy row to force the opponent to play as if its a dol trapper, you can use Francesca, Johnny, Last wish, if its the second round its a means to stall round two with a card that has already paid out its value.
He's one of the more creatively minded cards in that his usage is never linear, if you can't see the strengths he brings maybe a different ST play style would suit you more, the neophyte spam play style got buffed considerably perhaps you'd enjoy that.
I don't see why his base value ever really mattered at all as you was always intending to lose the first round you use him in and either discard or play him on the enemy rows after this point, he could behave like Toruviel and reveal on the opponents pass so he has some bekkers interaction but that might make an already powerful card to strong.
Well it was a pretty good combo....wardancer and ciarin= 8 points. It was a good suprise if you get 4 more points. I mean come on.....Its a SILVER card! But I am more sad about Milva.
Damnmit i won so many games play Milva after the opponent pass......even stronger if you play Eithne to double the effect. Now almost not worth it play her..
Damnmit i won so many games play Milva after the opponent pass......even stronger if you play Eithne to double the effect. Now almost not worth it play her..
Hm, lets think, what cards can give you +1 card advantage... Stennis (-12 power), Yaevin (-14 power), Birna (-12 power and a gold slot), Avalac'h (-6 power and gold slot), and Contarella (-12 power). Sure there are more aspects to many of them, but base power swing is as descriped. Then we have Ciaran, who gives you the same +1 card, DOESNT give your opponent power and have extra synergies being an ambush and an elf. Yep, hes definetly too weak.
isnadtochiev;n7703010 said:
The cards you mentioned have the advantage of drawing new cards. Ciaran is a good card, and 4 is not a crazy number; I don't see the need for a nerf. And btw, Yaevinn was used more for destroying enemy rows than for mere card advantage.
Is Ciaran still good? Sure, for playing mind tricks on the enemy. But I have won close matches with Ciaran, and really, a Silver 1 point card...
I have the theory that maybe he was changed because the dragoons buffs. Otherwise, I just don't understand it...
Noela;n7704530 said:
Buffing Ciaran was buggy anyway and often the buffed value was lost when he was revealed, probably because the player lost without it.
Either way buffing Ciaran was pretty counter intuitive to his design, if you wanted to do that Toruviel made more sense, you would only use him when you want to lose the round at a card advantage, not make an untouchable uber buffed 10 strength card, Toruviel does this better anyway.
I feel that your theory may be correct, though my thinking was that its more likely to reward the players that see you've got a potential Toruviel and instead of playing around that just pass the round to not risk losing. Those players shouldn't lose the round by a point because of Ciarans base strength as they made the right call to not play around the bait.
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Redcoat2012;n7705840 said:
Yeah, I play Toruviel AND Ciaran together, and Ida too in another deck, but I think that winning with those extra 3 points seldom happens (I won very close matches with Ciaran, but is not the rule), so I just don't think that it was a necesary change. As you say, I prefer to buff Toru, but sometimes when the fates are not kind and I don't have Toru in my hand and I have draw Ciaran on the last turn...buffed Ciaran is it.
Noela;n7706010 said:
Winning with Ciaran because of his reveal shouldn't happen at all, I've had it happen though, I've also put Ciaran on the opposite side forgot to compensate for it and lost an easily winnable round with a card advantage though so it goes both ways may be part of the point of it, you can now use it as a false dol trapper without it giving 4 strength to the enemy.
I also feel that buffing toru/ciaran was an unintended interaction so they probably want to discourage it as much as possible.
What's the point of the card advantage if it gives you back a 1 strength card. Card advantage only works if you have more power cards than your opponent. It's a dead card once you use it the first time.
It should let you draw a card if you lose the round instead of bouncing back into your hand.
It should let you draw a card if you lose the round instead of bouncing back into your hand.
Kinglionsfox;n7717020 said:
Point is to get the last say? There is a ton of cards that if played unanswered will win you the round by themselves. Weather, Dbomb, Scorch, Igni, Aard, commanders horn... CA is the most valuable thing in game.
Kinglionsfox;n7717020 said:
Decoy has 0 strength and costs a card, perhaps decoy is worthless?
It is not a dead card after having been played you can trick people by leading them to believe your Toru is a Ciaran, use it as a free discard in Fran decks or play it like a dol blathana trapper.