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Redefine the RPG genre as we know it

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R

RedFire01

Rookie
#41
Jan 28, 2015
En-en said:
TES size open world with proper combat and quality quests, writing and choices that actually matter? Could you please name at least one game, I would gladly play something like that.
Click to expand...
Fallout: New Vegas is the only game to fit in that category, and even then the combat system is a bit clunky.
 
Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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En-en

Forum regular
#42
Jan 28, 2015
Yeah, Fallout: NV is the closest thing. Though I can't remember a single quest there. May be I should replay it.
 
K

KA1N3R

Rookie
#43
Jan 28, 2015
wichat said:
Had I use the gerund form?
Click to expand...
nah, everything´s fine, it was a 'dad-joke' :D
 
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andersonblue

Rookie
#44
Jan 28, 2015
A truly cinematic experience in an open world; that is redefining an RPG.
 
KingHochmeister

KingHochmeister

Forum veteran
#45
Jan 28, 2015
caruga said:
One conflict I've felt presented itself in the previous Witcher games, was that I couldn't decide (and it felt like the developers couldn't decide, either) if Geralt was an avatar for the player, allowing you to act out the role you imagined--or whether Geralt was his own man, and I simply 'nudge' him in various directions. It felt like a mix of both, and it was confusing. Hard to say if it excels at roleplaying so much as story-telling. It'll be interested to see how it's handled in Witcher 3.
Click to expand...
Geralt was never an avatar for the players in the series, you play as Geralt of Rivia, Geralt has his own morality codes and personality that you only nudge, as you said, to do different things that Geralt might do because of his personality and character.

If Geralt was an avatar for the player, then people would be able to kill civilians and innocents like in TES games, Geralt of Rivia would never do that under any circumstance, but it is true that in Witcher 2 some things happened that defied his character in the books, but overall, you play as a pre-defined character, and to be perfectly honest, I prefer RPGs that do that, because pre-defined character make a damn good story most of the time, while "avatar" characters are dull most of the time like in the modern Bioware RPGs.
 
Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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thislsmadness

Rookie
#46
Jan 28, 2015
King_Hochmeister said:
Geralt was never an avatar for the players in the series, you play as Geralt of Rivia, Geralt has his own morality codes and personality that you only nudge, as you said, to do different things that Geralt might do because of his personality and character.

If Geralt was an avatar for the player, then people would be able to kill civilians like in TES games, Geralt of Rivia would never do that under any circumstance, but it is true that in Witcher 2 some things happened that defied his character in the books, but overall, you play as a pre-defined character, and to be perfectly honest, I prefer RPGs that do that, because pre-defined character make a damn good story most of the time, while "avatar" characters are dull most of the time like in the modern Bioware RPGs.
Click to expand...
While I think there is totally a place for "blank slate" characters. I do agree that roleplaying as a pre defined character is really interesting to me. Particularly because the choices you make are more grounded and realistic. In Bioware games you are pretty much an angel or a blood thirsty devil, theres little in the middle.
 
M

moonknightgog

Forum veteran
#47
Jan 28, 2015
King_Hochmeister said:
Geralt was never an avatar for the players in the series, you play as Geralt of Rivia, Geralt has his own morality codes and personality that you only nudge, as you said, to do different things that Geralt might do because of his personality and character.
.
Click to expand...
In this regard...I have to disagree. Amensia is not a story-thing...amnesia was the way that devs used to allow the player to role as Geralt of Rivia without the obligation to follow his moral codes and personality.

---------- Updated at 09:01 PM ----------

thislsmadness said:
In Bioware games you are pretty much an angel or a blood thirsty devil, theres little in the middle.
Click to expand...
That because themes in Bioware stories are a kind of "United we stand against the evil", with a clear definition of good and evil. The only game which detach from this theme was Dragon Age II...but the story telling was really bad.
 
KingHochmeister

KingHochmeister

Forum veteran
#48
Jan 28, 2015
Moonknightsg said:
In this regard...I have to disagree. Amensia is not a story-thing...amnesia was the way that devs used to allow the player to role as Geralt of Rivia without the obligation to follow his moral codes and personality.
Click to expand...
Without total obligation, but mostly all the choices you do are in Geralt's character, and most of the things he says are mostly in his character as well, because Geralt is a grey character and he could do evil and good at the same time.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#49
Jan 28, 2015
Geralt's amnesia is the way CDPR use to introduce the main character to the player: he gradually recovers the memory to aim the real Geralt from the books.
 
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BlackWolf500.298

Forum veteran
#50
Jan 28, 2015
wichat said:
Geralt's amnesia is the way CDPR use to introduce the main character to the player: he gradually recovers the memory to aim the real Geralt from the books.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
But his general personality says the same. The reader is slowly introduced to the story and to the kind of choices your character does.
I really like it. CDPR did a good job giving you enough to really "feel" how your character is in terms of personality and then start thinking LIKE him, that is another form of roleplaying all on it's own, where the roleplayer instead of taking the role of a blank-slate stereotype/class takes on the role of a certain character and starts acting accordingly. CDP did really well in giving they player JUST the right balance between freedom of choice and Geralts character, making those 2 games a very dense and engaging experience.
 
J

Jack Bauer 24

Rookie
#51
Jan 28, 2015
En-en said:
Yeah, Fallout: NV is the closest thing. Though I can't remember a single quest there. May be I should replay it.
Click to expand...
I remember most of them...being broken.
 
P

Phinnway

Rookie
#52
Jan 29, 2015
My opinion is that if they can have a better combat system and character customization than The Witcher 2, the amazing graphics that The Witcher series has always had, the same quality story that The Witcher 1 had, and a well designed open-world then they will succeed in making the next "quintessential" RPG.

[size=+1]quin·tes·sen·tial[/size]
ˌkwin(t)əˈsen(t)SHəl/
adjective

Representing the most perfect or typical example of a quality or class.
Click to expand...
If anyone asked what the last example of a "quintessential" RPG was. I'd say... I dunno... maybe Deus Ex 1.
 
Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
M

moonknightgog

Forum veteran
#53
Jan 29, 2015
Jack Bauer 24 said:
I remember most of them...being broken.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the main problem about New Vegas was that Obisian was forced to recycle all the assets from Fallout 3. And with them, even the technical problems.
 
E

easeldooor

Rookie
#54
Jan 29, 2015
Read Dead Redemption redefined why I play RPG's. I play RPG's for the story and character impact on the world through choices.

I find skill menus and reading dialogue text immersion breaking.

RDR showed you don't need to stop the game to select dialogue options. You can have the npcs chat and tell you the situation, then your actions can decide the course of events you will take.

The open world technology now allows you to use the environment more, why would you want to stop the game and read a skill menu? when you could instead level your skills by practicing with a sword or magic master for instance.

The skill tree could be replaced by side quests to attain those skills. Much better than random little stories.

We need to get away from the old ideas of skill menus, character levels, and inventory management and focus more on interactive open world gameplay development.

The future of RPG's is the devs creating ai that react to your actions and create procedural events, so you are effectively creating your own quests without them having to write them for us.

For example: After the game I would like to play as a new Witcher in the world state i left it as geralt., Maybe i choose to setup or train with a new or existing school somewhere, maybe nifguard or temeria gets annoyed and I have to deal with them.

That to me would redefine role playing games, just interacting with the open world and having the npcs react to me without a linear story or any skill menus.
 
T

thislsmadness

Rookie
#55
Jan 29, 2015
RDR isn't an RPG though, its an Open World action/adventure. All those elements you want to throw away (skills, dialogue options, character levels, inventory) are pretty much the types of game play systems that separate RPGs from other genres.

That said, I do agree that many of those elements are in need of a redesign, especially character levels.
 
Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
M

moonknightgog

Forum veteran
#56
Jan 29, 2015
2sorcwolf said:
Read Dead Redemption redefined why I play RPG's. I play RPG's for the story and character impact on the world through choices.

I find skill menus and reading dialogue text immersion breaking.

RDR showed you don't need to stop the game to select dialogue options. You can have the npcs chat and tell you the situation, then your actions can decide the course of events you will take.

The open world technology now allows you to use the environment more, why would you want to stop the game and read a skill menu? when you could instead level your skills by practicing with a sword or magic master for instance.

The skill tree could be replaced by side quests to attain those skills. Much better than random little stories.

We need to get away from the old ideas of skill menus, character levels, and inventory management and focus more on interactive open world gameplay development.

The future of RPG's is the devs creating ai that react to your actions and create procedural events, so you are effectively creating your own quests without them having to write them for us.

For example: After the game I would like to play as a new Witcher in the world state i left it as geralt., Maybe i choose to setup or train with a new or existing school somewhere, maybe nifguard or temeria gets annoyed and I have to deal with them.

That to me would redefine role playing games, just interacting with the open world and having the npcs react to me without a linear story or any skill menus.
Click to expand...
Then you want an action/adventure, not an RPG.

The future of RPG's is the devs creating ai that react to your actions and create procedural events, so you are effectively creating your own quests without them having to write them for us.
Click to expand...
Oh, well, the TRUE death of quest design.
 
S

SageFox.326

Rookie
#57
Jan 29, 2015
The game is going to achieve that, in consoles the game have some bugs to fix, not performance related, in pc performance ir worrying and need to be fixed but probably not. The quality of the game itself as a game is OUTSTANDING if we follow the articles this week.
 
G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#58
Jan 29, 2015
SageFox said:
The game is going to achieve that, in consoles the game have some bugs to fix, not performance related, in pc performance ir worrying and need to be fixed but probably not. The quality of the game itself as a game is OUTSTANDING if we follow the articles this week.
Click to expand...
They've said they're still working on the Xbox One performance; they think they can get it to 1080p, but no promises.

On PC, they're still working on Ultra-level (and presumably higher) performance, but a well-equipped PC plays the game fluently on High and clearly better than on PS4. So, no, performance on PC is not worrying.
 

IsengrimR

Guest
#59
Jan 29, 2015
Jack Bauer 24 said:
That's the most bold statement I've ever seen. Will they accomplish that? What exactly do they have to do to achieve it?
Click to expand...
The reply is very simple.
They won't.

But of course, media will call it redefining. They called DA:I redefining and that game doesn't know where it's own arse ends.

CDPR is capable of making a good game. Redefining?

Witcher 2 had an influence on action-RPGs. Because it was very much a focused experience that did not care much for anything else.
Dark Souls did redefine many aspects of action-RPGs. Because it was, again, focused, it was good at the parts it redefined.

These two games, are the only damn ones I would call having any influence what-so-ever in recent years. They changed things. Until they will be redefined again.

Witcher 3 doesn't seem to go that route, it's more of the same, in a bigger map. Sure, it's innovation for Witcher series. In RPGs, doing an open world game, is not an innovation, it's a design decision.

Unless Witcher 3 introduces something new, we don't know about, or does something in a truly masterful manner, it won't redefine anything. It may be a good game, but from what I've seen so far, it's not redefining.

We will see when it comes it. Or at least you will see, I'm afraid I won't have time for that.
 
E

easeldooor

Rookie
#60
Jan 29, 2015
Dragon's Dogma progressed monster fighting to more than just hacking away at their ankles and lowering their hit points.
Climbing a monster and flying into the air with it, is something I've only ever seen in cutscenes. I even had my AI companion catch me in the air after a harpy lifted me off the ground.

Maybe they can incorporate climbing monsters in the enhanced edition :)
 
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