Refunds being misused

+
Status
Not open for further replies.
I've enjoyed the game so far (30 hours maybe?) on Series X so I can't imagine pursuing a refund even if such an endeavour would be technically possible. I've seen some people upset at having to stop playing the game in order to get a refund, a level of entitlement which makes no sense to me.
 
I've enjoyed the game so far (30 hours maybe?) on Series X so I can't imagine pursuing a refund even if such an endeavour would be technically possible. I've seen some people upset at having to stop playing the game in order to get a refund, a level of entitlement which makes no sense to me.

Luck you.
 
I've only made it to ACT2. The bugs began to be unbearable for me, so I stopped playing. But I'm not going to refund the game anyway, because I still believe that CDPR will fix the game. Also, CDPR is not only Cyberpunk, it's GOG and whole NO-DRM policy, no forced patches, no need for a launcher etc... They do a lot of things right and I don't want them to suffer (that much) for this clusterfuck of a release.
 
I am talking about DexLuther's claim regarding "censorship" been a valid reason for refunds which is on topic and not false advertising nor censorship overall. Read what was written - you even quoted it whilst referencing something else entirely.

The valid reason for refund is being dissatisfied with the product. For any reason.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It doesn't fit as you expected. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits, but shrinks the first time you put it in the wash despite the tag saying it wouldn't. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits and it's fine in the wash, but the lettering peels off the second time you wear it. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

CDPR sold a t-shirt, said it was one size fit all, wouldn't shrink in the wash, and had sexy high quality lettering.
The t-shirt we got:
  • Didn't fit everyone
    • Tons of people have issues running the game on platforms it was advertised as being to run on and even initially announced for,
  • It shrunk in the wash
    • The game doesn't include many features it was advertised and sold as having, and
  • CDPR came and peeled the sexy lettering off everyone's t-shirt
    • They removed things like nudity from the game after release.
All valid reasons for a refund and are normal and common reasons for returns and refunds for tons of other types of products, but for a video games that you happen to like it's unacceptable? That's pretty hypocritical. I'm sure you've returned things in your life for reasons you're claiming are not valid now.

Hell buying a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits alright, it's fine in the wash and the lettering isn't terrible, but you have other similar shirts you are more satisfied with. You return the shirt. You aren't completely dissatisfied, but the shirt wasn't what you expected and you could really use the money for something else is also still a valid reason for a refund.

At the end of the day someone's reason for refunding is none of your business. It's between that person and CDPR. CDPR also said people could refund if they aren't satisfied with the product. They didn't mention any rules or exceptions, and it really doesn't matter if you agree with the reasons people are not satisfied.

Like... what censorship? Just took this screenshot on 1.06 lmao...
View attachment 11112860

No one said the censorship was done well just that it was done.

Take off your pants or whatever's in your bottoms slot and then hop on a motorcycle or into photomode. You'll notice your character wearing big purple panties or boxer shorts. There used to be a toggle in the settings to control that, but they removed it and made everyone have to wear the purple underwear.
 
Last edited:
You can always decide that something was bad at any time, even after finishing something.
You can like something and later find the memories to be really disappointing.
If you can manage to get a refund, good for you.

BUT if you in fact enjoyed the game and returned it just to get the money back, THAT is immoral.

But do you know what is also immoral?



What is Insider Trading?
"Insider trading involves trading in a public company's stock by someone who has non-public, material information about that stock for any reason. Insider trading can be either illegal or legal depending on when the insider makes the trade. It is illegal when the material information is still non-public, and this sort of insider trading comes with harsh consequences."

Make your own conclusions.
 
Whoever returns the game does not deserve the game. Witcher 3 was a disaster at launch. More bugs and glitches than any other game including Cyberpunk. Nevertheless, it received over 200 GOTY awards and is considered as one of the best games ever created. Start discussing, start enjoying.
 
The valid reason for refund is being dissatisfied with the product. For any reason.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It doesn't fit as you expected. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits, but shrinks the first time you put it in the wash despite the tag saying it wouldn't. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits and it's fine in the wash, but the lettering peels off the second time you wear it. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

CDPR sold a t-shirt, said it was one size fit all, wouldn't shrink in the wash, and had sexy high quality lettering.
The t-shirt we got:
  • Didn't fit everyone
    • Tons of people have issues running the game on platforms it was advertised as being to run on and even initially announced for,
  • It shrunk in the wash
    • The game doesn't include many features it was advertised and sold as having, and
  • CDPR came and peeled the sexy lettering off everyone's t-shirt
    • They removed things like nudity from the game after release.
All valid reasons for a refund and are normal and common reasons for returns and refunds for tons of other types of products, but for a video games that you happen to like it's unacceptable? That's pretty hypocritical. I'm sure you've returned things in your life for reasons you're claiming are not valid now.

Hell buying a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits alright, it's fine in the wash and the lettering isn't terrible, but you have other similar shirts you are more satisfied with. You return the shirt. You aren't completely dissatisfied, but the shirt wasn't what you expected and you could really use the money for something else is also still a valid reason for a refund.

At the end of the day someone's reason for refunding is none of your business. It's between that person and CDPR. CDPR also said people could refund if they aren't satisfied with the product. They didn't mention any rules or exceptions, and it really doesn't matter if you agree with the reasons people are not satisfied.

Still does not answer the question - "Censorship" is valid reason to refund" the point you are certain of.

Consumer protection laws - your country - quote the law, the passage from the law that states censorship is valid.
 
Whoever returns the game does not deserve the game. Witcher 3 was a disaster at launch. More bugs and glitches than any other game including Cyberpunk. Nevertheless, it received over 200 GOTY awards and is considered as one of the best games ever created. Start discussing, start enjoying.
And whoever don't criticise this game should keep playing 1.0 forever..
 
Still does not answer the question - "Censorship" is valid reason to refund" the point you are certain of.

Consumer protection laws - your country - quote the law, the passage from the law that states censorship is valid.

I can only speak for Germany. Other countries May differ.
In Germany there is no law that regulates refunding though many customers believe so.
If a refund is Made it is always by accomodation of the seller/company. Which would be case for what CDPR did with Cyberpunk 2077.

But in Germany there is a law that regulates that the customer will receive a working and malfunction free product. This is regulated in § 433 Absatz 1 Satz 2 BGB. If the product is free of malfunction according to §434 BGB and free of deficiency in title according to §435 BGB than the contact is legally binding to both customer and seller and the customer has no right to refund the product.

There are exclusions though: if the product wasn't bought in a retail store but was bought by a distance selling contract i.e. Online, Phone, Mail etc. Then the customer has a 14 Day refund right without to state a reason for his refund. This is also valid for bought copies of software i.e. By Playstation store or GOG or Steam according to §312g BGB and §355 BGB.

A retail version of the game though is explicitly excluded from refund by §312g Absatz 2 Satz 6 because it was a sealed product which sealing had been brocken to use it. So a refund would only be possible by accomodation of the seller.

So censorship itself can not be a reason to refund. But false advertisement could be. This is regulated by §5 UWG and §5a UWG and §263 StGB.

Tl;dr: The only reason in Germany the game could be refunded for censorship would not be by referring to refund law or to question if this is a malfunction or not but to go to court and state it as false advertisement or some kind of product altering. I have done some reserach and could not find a reference case. So it would be up to an ordinary court to decide this.


You can always decide that something was bad at any time, even after finishing something.

You can like something and later find the memories to be really disappointing.

If you can manage to get a refund, good for you.



BUT if you in fact enjoyed the game and returned it just to get the money back, THAT is immoral.



But do you know what is also immoral?









What is Insider Trading?

"Insider trading involves trading in a public company's stock by someone who has non-public, material information about that stock for any reason. Insider trading can be either illegal or legal depending on when the insider makes the trade. It is illegal when the material information is still non-public, and this sort of insider trading comes with harsh consequences."



Make your own conclusions.

I found it pretty interesting too that the drop was before the Release. So someone decided to sell All their Stock before the Release Took place. Looks like insider trading for me. I am thinking about getting in contact with German BaFin and polish authorities though someone told me that the KNF in poland would already be investigating. If the sell was legal okay, go for it. But if not it would be pretty unfair (and illegal lol). I myself lost a lot on the CDPR Stock but I gonna Stick to it. I believe it will rise again.
 
Last edited:
The valid reason for refund is being dissatisfied with the product. For any reason.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It doesn't fit as you expected. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits, but shrinks the first time you put it in the wash despite the tag saying it wouldn't. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

You buy a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits and it's fine in the wash, but the lettering peels off the second time you wear it. You are dissatisfied with the product and return it.

CDPR sold a t-shirt, said it was one size fit all, wouldn't shrink in the wash, and had sexy high quality lettering.
The t-shirt we got:
  • Didn't fit everyone
    • Tons of people have issues running the game on platforms it was advertised as being to run on and even initially announced for,
  • It shrunk in the wash
    • The game doesn't include many features it was advertised and sold as having, and
  • CDPR came and peeled the sexy lettering off everyone's t-shirt
    • They removed things like nudity from the game after release.
All valid reasons for a refund and are normal and common reasons for returns and refunds for tons of other types of products, but for a video games that you happen to like it's unacceptable? That's pretty hypocritical. I'm sure you've returned things in your life for reasons you're claiming are not valid now.

Hell buying a t-shirt, you couldn't try it on in the store because of covid. You get home, and put it on. It fits alright, it's fine in the wash and the lettering isn't terrible, but you have other similar shirts you are more satisfied with. You return the shirt. You aren't completely dissatisfied, but the shirt wasn't what you expected and you could really use the money for something else is also still a valid reason for a refund.

At the end of the day someone's reason for refunding is none of your business. It's between that person and CDPR. CDPR also said people could refund if they aren't satisfied with the product. They didn't mention any rules or exceptions, and it really doesn't matter if you agree with the reasons people are not satisfied.

Still does not answer the question - "Censorship" is valid reason to refund" the point you are certain of.

Consumer protection laws - your country - quote the law, the passage from the law that states censorship is valid.
I can only speak for Germany. Other countries May differ.
In Germany there is no law that regulates refunding though many customers believe so.
If a refund is Made it is always by accomodation of the seller/company. Which would be case for what CDPR did with Cyberpunk 2077.

But in Germany there is a law that regulates that the customer will receive a working and malfunction free product. This is regulated in § 433 Absatz 1 Satz 2 BGB. If the product is free of malfunction according to §434 BGB and free of deficiency in title according to §435 BGB than the contact is legally binding to both customer and seller and the customer has no right to refund the product.

There are exclusions though: if the product wasn't bought in a retail store but was bought by a distance selling contract i.e. Online, Phone, Mail etc. Then the customer has a 14 Day refund right without to state a reason for his refund. This is also valid for bought copies of software i.e. By Playstation store or GOG or Steam according to §312g BGB and §355 BGB.

A retail version of the game though is explicitly excluded from refund by §312g Absatz 2 Satz 6 because it was a sealed product which sealing had been brocken to use it. So a refund would only be possible by accomodation of the seller.

So censorship itself can not be a reason to refund. But false advertisement could be. This is regulated by §5 UWG and §5a UWG and §263 StGB.

Tl;dr: The only reason in Germany the game could be refunded for censorship would not be by referring to refund law or to question if this is a malfunction or not but to go to court and state it as false advertisement or some kind of product altering. I have done some reserach and could not find a reference case. So it would be up to an ordinary court to decide this.




I found it pretty interesting top that the drop was before the Release. So someone decided to sell All their Stock before the Release Took place. Looks like insider trading for me. I am thinking about getting in contact with German BaFin and polish authorities though someone told me that the KNF in poland would already be investigating. If the sell was legal okay, go for it. But if not it would be pretty unfair (and illegal lol). I myself lost a lot on the CDPR Stock but I gonna Stick to it. I believe it will rise again.

Then you need to return all those flawed and faulty games you have purchased as no game releases perfect on any platform.

As for the Germany the "EU right of withdrawal" is applicable with regard to refunds. "The EU statutory right of withdrawal ends 14 days after your purchase or the moment you start downloading the content and services for the first time (whichever is sooner). You can still refund but you did give up some rights.

As for my point "censorship" is not written into law as a valid reason for a refund, you can only refund within the limitations of consumer law.
 
Still does not answer the question - "Censorship" is valid reason to refund" the point you are certain of.

Consumer protection laws - your country - quote the law, the passage from the law that states censorship is valid.


Then you need to return all those flawed and faulty games you have purchased as no game releases perfect on any platform.

As for the Germany the "EU right of withdrawal" is applicable with regard to refunds. "The EU statutory right of withdrawal ends 14 days after your purchase or the moment you start downloading the content and services for the first time (whichever is sooner). You can still refund but you did give up some rights.

As for my point "censorship" is not written into law as a valid reason for a refund, you can only refund within the limitations of consumer law.

No matter what relevant law I quote you're going to whine about where it mentions censorship. Misleading advertisement applies. I'm sure there's also a law or rule that covers changing products after the fact. Probably laws and/or rules against bait and switch too.

Here let me say it in terms you'll understand:

Me buy game.
Game not game they say.
Me annoyed, but wait to see if fix later.
They say everyone get money back if not happy.
They change game after I buy. Remove content me pay for.
They say change on purpose.
Me not happy.

They say can have money back if not happy.
Not happy = able to get money back.

As for my point "censorship" is not written into law as a valid reason for a refund, you can only refund within the limitations of consumer law.

The law says:
It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be disseminated, any false advertisement
Not
Except in the case of censorship; It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be disseminated, any false advertisement

Censorship doesn't have to specifically be written into law. Censorship isn't an exception to the law either. No matter what I quote, you'll still claim that censorship isn't a valid reason.

Since I proved my point and your argument is basically "nu-uh! It doesn't specifically say the magic word so it doesn't count," how about YOU quote the law that says censorship isn't a valid reason for a refund. I'm waiting.
 
G
I've enjoyed the game so far (30 hours maybe?) on Series X so I can't imagine pursuing a refund even if such an endeavour would be technically possible. I've seen some people upset at having to stop playing the game in order to get a refund, a level of entitlement which makes no sense to me.
Glad you enjoy it, I could put up with bugs and glitches and shit AI because that can be fixed, but the cut content is where I draw the line, I would pay $500 for a good game, and still not want a refund if they promised to add the content back in and give us what they promised.
 
No matter what relevant law I quote you're going to whine about where it mentions censorship. Misleading advertisement applies. I'm sure there's also a law or rule that covers changing products after the fact. Probably laws and/or rules against bait and switch too.

Whine? I am not the one avoiding answering a very simple question. You believe "censorship is a valid reason for a refund". If you are so sure it is valid then post the link to the consumer law article in your country proving validity or continue to circle around and avoiding an obvious blunder on your part.

Refunds can only be done within the confines of consumer law or to put it another way you can only refund within the limitations of consumer law.

Censorship doesn't have to specifically be written into law. Censorship isn't an exception to the law either. No matter what I quote, you'll still claim that censorship isn't a valid reason.

Censorship is written into law but not consumer law and YOU are certain it is a valid reason yet cannot prove it.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient.".

But hey brighten a lawyers day when you say you want to refund under the premise of censorship and watch while they laugh and nearly choke on their coffee.

Since I proved my point and your argument is basically "nu-uh! It doesn't specifically say the magic word so it doesn't count," how about YOU quote the law that says censorship isn't a valid reason for a refund. I'm waiting.

You haven't proved your point until you link censorship with consumer law in your country, a point you are certain of and keep avoiding. Keep circling or simply admit you are wrong and do not know the difference between censorship and consumer law, or censorship and false advertising.

Or simply continue to avoid whilst deflecting.
 
Last edited:
Not sure why anyone is surprised at this.

The refund policy is extremely lenient and this is typical gamers behavior. "They've scammed me so it's ok if I scam them".

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't refund. The game didn't deliver a lot of what was advertised and some of it's core functions are flawed/broken. By all means, refund if you aren't willing to bet on CDPR to fix these things. Scamming them isn't ok though.

Myself I'm betting on them to fix the game and, hopefully, get it as close as possible to what it was supposed to be.
Excuse me, what do you mean by extremely lenient? I was so invested on the game I bought it on pre-sales. I've never received any of the the pre-sales bonus contents or any form of notice about how to get them, but I just left it aside, since for personal reasons I could not start playing for months. Now, 9 months and a number of patches later, I asked Steam for a refund and filled the ticket asking my personal motivations. Im in love with another game I can't afford now and I will buy CP again when and if it runs ok. My gameplay was 3hs ridden full of bugs of which I spent 2hs just reading text and half an hour building the char. Steam computed +30 days and +2hs, I received an automatic answer and nobody ever read what I wrote. I'm fuming. If only I could speak to a human being, Steam would register me immediately spending the refunded money on Steam itself within minutes.
 
Here my 2 cents.

I agree with TO, that does seem like a scummy thing to do. Tells more about the type of person who does such a thing, where he/she buys a products uses it for its intended use until being 'completed' and then refund, which is basically saying: "I'm unhappy, want money back"
It feels very odd to finish/complete a products use and then state you're unhappy with the product.
 
I agree with TO, that does seem like a scummy thing to do. Tells more about the type of person who does such a thing, where he/she buys a products uses it for its intended use until being 'completed' and then refund, which is basically saying: "I'm unhappy, want money back"
It feels very odd to finish/complete a products use and then state you're unhappy with the product.
I would also agree. Abusing refunds is not good. However, neither is misleading customers about the product they are getting. I am not saying that the one justifies the other, just that there seems to be a lot of defense of a large company acting quite shady in its dealings while at the same time, moral outrage at the fact that some individuals, regardless of what they really thought about the game, would get a refund after playing it for a substantial amount of time. I don't understand how someone can be upset about one and not the other.
 
I see lots of complaining about the lack of nudity.
I see people being less than respectful.
I see a 5-month necro that is hardly on topic.
I see nothing of constructive value.

Locked.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom