Regarding blocking : A poll about the old and the new system and a compromise

[kitadol]

Regarding blocking : A poll about the old and the new system and a compromise

Wouldn't the most balanced and most logical solution be to have parries defend 100% damage (after upgrades), but when you run out of energy, only defend 50%?

This would be a compromise between the old and the new parry system. It would make blocking useful, but still tactical (you would have to spend energy on it). At the same time, blocking without energy would be a viable alternative for defense.
It would make a lot of sense too: when you have energy, you can parry flawlessly, but when you get tired, you can block but not as effectively.

I feel that right now, there is absolutely no point in blocking when you have energy as it's not as useful, and you can spend your energy on spells and then block.

Humbly awaiting opinions and ideas,
Kitad.

PS: Love the game.

 

[Garrison72]

I agree 100% I'll have to play more, but it seems like they've encouraged incessant rolling now because blocking can never be totally effective. I don't want to roll around like a monkey I want to block and counter.

But if enhancements can make it close to 100% effective, then I can see it as a logical change.

 

[Flash]

There are swords with bonus damage reduction when blocking. You can easily end up taking minimal damage. Also blocking is instant and allows for an easy counter attack, while rolling does not guarantee you will avoid the hit.

 

[kitadol]

There are swords with bonus damage reduction when blocking. You can easily end up taking minimal damage. Also blocking is instant and allows for an easy counter attack, while rolling does not guarantee you will avoid the hit.

Thanks for the response.

That's a fair point and I like the idea that the sword characteristics give you new ways to fight, but I still think there should be a compromise (my 50% - 100% were just arbitrary numbers so you can get the idea, the percentages could be anything, but the point is to have an incentive to use your energy for blocking).


The main reason for that is that blocking with and without energy being the same makes no sense in a balance and logical way. Why would you waste energy blocking when you can use that energy and then block for the same results? Shouldn't you be less effective when you have no energy as you are more tired?

 

[kitadol]

I've added a poll, please post your opinions.

 

[Garrison72]

Before, it made no sense to not be able to block after your vigor was gone, so I like the fact we can always block now. I personally think in the current system there should be some potion combo that will buff you up enough that blocking takes next to no life away. Maybe there is, I don't know.

 

[fchopin]

I voted for how it was before, i don't use blocking for anything anymore just rolling.

 

[Garrison72]

There are swords with bonus damage reduction when blocking. You can easily end up taking minimal damage. Also blocking is instant and allows for an easy counter attack, while rolling does not guarantee you will avoid the hit.

Flash, how do you play? Do you prefer rolling or blocking?

 

[FYCxxLeoxx]

I liked the old system better. I would prefer that, but your compromise suggestion is good. The new system punishes you for blocking without using up your vigor. It also makes the the skill Guard completely useless! It also makes tiara useless as well and I used both of those in all of my builds

 

[kitadol]

I voted for how it was before, i don't use blocking for anything anymore just rolling.

But with the new system you could use blocking with energy but it would also be useful without it. Both having its tactical pros and cons

 

[Aver]

Old blocking was simply overpowered. I like a new system. Please nerf Quen too.

 

[JarekB]

I think Riposte is still only possible when you block while having vigor. If you block when your vigor is depleted the riposte icon will not show up. So technically blocking with and without vigor does not yield same results.

 

[Flash]

The main reason for that is that blocking with and without energy being the same makes no sense in a balance and logical way. Why would you waste energy blocking when you can use that energy and then block for the same results? Shouldn't you be less effective when you have no energy as you are more tired?

The new system punishes you for blocking without using up your vigor. It also makes the the skill Guard completely useless! It also makes tiara useless as well and I used both of those in all of my builds

Quite the opposite. There already is a system in the game since version 1.0 that makes it logical and makes Guard skill very useful. The problem is that nobody knows it exists
The less Vigor you have, the lower damage you deal with a sword. The equation for damage penalty is:
1 - current Vigor / max Vigor / 2

So, parrying does tire you up in combat and Guard skill reduces this effect. Also Tiara is very useful because parrying reduce the damage you receive. First, armor lowers incoming damage, then parry cuts it in half.
Like I said, with right sword and high armor you can end up taking minimal damage.

The whole mechanism is also more realistic. You don't feel the side-effect of parrying weak attacks, but try to block a halberd, charging shieldman or troll fist. Such a powerful blow will hurt.

Parry wasn't nerfed in comparison to roll by tweaks in patch 2.0.

 

[Garrison72]

Good info flash. Thanks.

 

[MichiGen]

I like the new system. It is kinda stupid if Geralt can't without vigor put a sword in block stance. It was very unrealistic. He didn't had a power to put a sword in block stance but he could perform powerfull attacks, piruets etc...

More than five of my friends thought when they played Witcher 2 from the first time that there is some kind of nasty bug, because they were pressing E for block like a crazy but Geralt didn't reacted.

 

[mrowakus]

Old blocking was simply overpowered. I like a new system. Please nerf Quen too.

Listen to the man! At least make it so it can deflect only one blow - however strong it is - and then it gets terminated. I checked it out myself. It does work, without detroying game's balance.

Alternatively it would be cool if basic Quen worked like parry - it sipped up 50% of damage and prevented your opponents from interrupting your attacks. Then with skill progression the damage absorbtion threshold could rise up to, say, 80%.

 

[kitadol]

Quite the opposite. There already is a system in the game since version 1.0 that makes it logical and makes Guard skill very useful. The problem is that nobody knows it exists
The less Vigor you have, the lower damage you deal with a sword. The equation for damage penalty is:
1 - current Vigor / max Vigor / 2

So, parrying does tire you up in combat and Guard skill reduces this effect. Also Tiara is very useful because parrying reduce the damage you receive. First, armor lowers incoming damage, then parry cuts it in half.
Like I said, with right sword and high armor you can end up taking minimal damage.

The whole mechanism is also more realistic. You don't feel the side-effect of parrying weak attacks, but try to block a halberd, charging shieldman or troll fist. Such a powerful blow will hurt.

Parry wasn't nerfed in comparison to roll by tweaks in patch 2.0.

Ok, so why do you think that nobody knows it exists? Where is that information displayed?

Don't you think that there is a lack of clarity regarding this information? All of these should be intuitive and easily-available to the player me thinks.



But anyways. with this clarification, my issue with it becomes even stronger. There is even a greater penalty to blocking (doing less damage). Why? Because when you are fighting enemies, you aren't blocking one blow and that's it, you have to block sucessive times.


The problem I have with the current system is that with so much penalty to blocking when you have energy (one less energy implies less damage dealt and the lack of chance to use magic), but there aren't good incentives (only blocking 50% of the damage).


When you compare level 1 Quen + rolling to blocking, it becomes a no-brainer. Specially when you have to take some skills before making blocking totally useful.

 

[Rovlad]

Psst... hey Flash! Make FCR for TW2! Insane mode TW2 is kindergarten stuff after beating TWEE + Insane FCR!

 

[mrowakus]

When you compare level 1 Quen + rolling to blocking, it becomes a no-brainer. Specially when you have to take some skills before making blocking totally useful.

This.

Rolling has been such an abuseable mechanism that I don't really comprehend the decision to nerf blocking even further. Now, I understand that with the three major bossfights build entirely upon the idea of rolling nothing can be done to penalise it (as it would made those fights unbeatable), but Quen's predominance among all the signs should finally come to an end.

 

[kitadol]

The problem with nerfing Quen is that it would unbalance the entire game and arena since its the main defense mechanism. It would need an entire revision of the defensive system.

My proposal is simply what I think best to make blocking viable but tactical.